Bushwalk Australia

I just got back from the Magistrates court
On my trip home form the hill in late September I got clicked by the revenue cameras on the Western Ring Road
After more than a few letters between me and the camera office I decided to take it to court.
I'd advise anybody who has a letter for an offense less than 10% over the posted limit to take it to court
Charge proven but dismissed, so I lose a point but don't pay a fine
I've been driving for just on 45 years and it has only been with the introduction of these damned cameras that I have lost any points or had a fine of any sort.
Worst sort of law, making normally good citizens into petty criminals and a source of revenue for politicians to waste on junkets overseas and their outrageous pensions
While I'm glad I don't have to pay the money I still object to losing a damned point
I fully understand why we are losing respect for the law and the police; as far as i can see the police are becoming just another arm of the state revenue office

I update my Garmin Nuvi car GPS speed/stop camera locations/zones every two weeks Australia wide, so every time I get near one it tells me to check my speed and displays on the map where the damn thing is as I approach it. The thing has saved me that off chance I miss a sign or run a red light!

Powered by a daily-updated database, your GPS knows the locations of:

Fixed cameras
Average speed cameras
Variable cameras
Temporary cameras / roadwork sites
Red light speed cameras Mobile cameras

http://www.garmin.com/au/extras/garmin-safety-cameras/

No tickets or fines for 11 years now...

Beats the hell out of my old radar/laser detector...

Well on a 100 km/h road, everyone used to do 109 lol. Now they do 102 because of the speed cameras (you don't get a fine at 102-103). Nothing wrong with doing the actual speed limit. What's stupid though is having different speed limits depending on the state. In NT you can do 130 on highways even though it's a heavy roadkill area... What's funny too is that they don't do automatic speed cameras in the US. Why ? Because they know people would just shoot them. So it's still police cars so far. In Europe, they've been some funny stuff : a dutch guy used expanding foam through a tiny hole in the camera that would just destroy it. You also got Gordon Ramsay using kitchen cling film around the camera so the picture would be screwed up (also works on your car number plate).

Hallu wrote:they don't do automatic speed cameras in the US. Why ? Because they know people would just shoot them.

Seen beer coasters stuck on the camera lens at Sydney's Glebe Point!

Ivel noticed in nsw cameras have 2 security cams (one facing the other). I guess vandalism was a concern

My only objection is the current margin for the camera is less than the legal margin on speedos.
If it's legal for a car to be manufactured and sold with a speedometer that can have a 10% error, then that should be the leeway allowed on cameras and speed guns. Anything else is grossly unfair.

Beyond that, if you don't speed, you don't get fined. You have no reason to whinge about getting caught breaking the law. Speed limits are clearly posted - pay attention, stick to the limit and you're safe.

That's why everywhere else in the world they have that allowance; but a huge fine for what is within the tolerance of the speedo is simply revenue raising.
I worked with an engineer who used to be employed by VicRoads [ he was a very polite fellow BTW] and he informed me that most of our newer major roads have been designed for a vehicle speed of 160 kph and in his expert opinion were dangerous at the current speed limits. Makes you wonder why we employ experts at the design stage and leave decisions to idiots in parliament

I still do not understand the issue, do not go over the speed limit and you do not get a fine. What NNW said.

As for the 10% error issue, I really do not believe that any modern car has that much error. If you are sitting on the speed limit according to your speedo and passing everyone clearly you have A) missed a speed change sign or B) do have an error in your speedo that needs to be fixed or C) are having one of those days where everyone is going slower than the speed limit, very rare in my experience, and very rare this to be happening without some reason.

In 35 years I have come across one speedo that was worse than perhaps 5%, and that includes some real bombs of cars. The 1 example of a gross error was due to the owner fitting larger dia wheels/tires and he knew the result and resulting error very accurately.

The speedo in my 2014 VW polo is 8% out. At 100km/h (by GPS) it reads 108km/h.

The point is even though your speedo might read 100km/h, you could actually be doing at much as 110km/h and this is acceptable under the relevant ADR.

Not only does this make enforcement under 10km/h over the limit a bit of a joke, what about the "Wipe Off 5" campaign?

New/modern car?
ROFL
ADR for the year of manufacture was +/-10%
Even hitting a bump in the road can throw off the radar reading by more than that as it is an instantaneous reading not a time elapsed average.
My issue isn't with speeding; I don't speed; I am quite happy to travel at the speed limit even if it is artificially low. My issue is with legislation specifically written to raise the maximum revenue. At the time in question I was being passed by more traffic that I was passing but that isn't an issue
The issue is placing of these cameras in places where danger is minimal but the chances of people exceeding the speed limit due to road surface issues and minor human error is greatest

Wipe off 5 is a joke
When I was being tested for my HC license I almost failed because I was taking note of the campaign and making allowance for the inherent in-accuracy of the speedo in the old semi I was being tested in. The VicRoads instructor specifically told to speed up and after passing me told me how close I had come to being failed by not driving at the speed limit
His comment being that if you cannot drive at the speed limit you shouldn't be on the road

The whole 'Wipe Off 5' campaign is highly misleading. It doesn't say so but it is actually aimed at getting people to stop driving that 5km over the limit they think they can get away with. This is obvious if you just look at the nature of the area they show and consider the speeds they quote.
Also, if the authorities really wanted everyone to drive 5km slower than every single posted limit, they would simply lower those limits by 5km.

For experienced, competent drivers many Australian limits are ridiculous and higher speeds are quite safe for those drivers in decent conditions. Limits are an exercise in lowest common denominator legislation.

(And, for the record, I was well below the limit and driving both slower and more cautiously than usual on that stretch of road when I rolled the Hilux. )

New Subaru WRX - 8% out.
New Subaru Forester - 8% out.
New Toyota Prado - 8% out.

Only cars ive had with speedo's close to spot on are the Holden Commodore and my old 1978 Landcruiser.

Travis.

Strider wrote:
The point is even though your speedo might read 100km/h, you could actually be doing at much as 110km/h and this is acceptable under the relevant ADR.

My belief was the manufacturers are allowed up to 10% out but it must read over the actual speed not under.

Ive never seen / heard of a car that traveled faster then the reading on its spedometer from the factory. Ive had 4wd's with aftermarket larger tires or diff ratios and that can cause the speedo to read low.

Travis.

Current Australian regulations, from RACQ:

For vehicles manufactured before July 2006:

An accuracy of +/- 10 percent of the vehicle’s true speed was needed when a vehicle was travelling above 40km/h. This means if a vehicle was travelling at a true speed of 100km/h, the speedo was allowed to indicate a reading between 90km/h and 110km/h.
An odometer accuracy of +/- 4 percent was also a requirement.

After 1 July 2006


The speedo must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle’s true speed or a speed greater than the vehicle’s true speed by an amount more than 10 percent plus 4 km/h.
The speedo must always read 'safe', meaning the vehicle's true speed must not be higher than the speed indicated by the speedo. So if a vehicle travelling at a true speed of 100km/h, the speedo must read between 100km/h and 114km/h. Another way of looking at this is if the speedo indicates a speed of 100km/h, the vehicle's true speed must be between 87.3 km/h and 100km/h.
There is now no requirement to have an odometer, and so there is no accuracy requirement.

Ford ute 1996


Add a few kpa/psi to the tyres and see what difference it makes, an increased tyre pressure can increase the rolling circumference a bit and I must admit on that trip I was towing the trailer home and I may have added 2psi to the maximum recommended by Ford ; but not by the tyre maker

I just use the speedo on the Garmin Nuvi all the time now as it gives a true speed unlike the stupid 'feel good' dash!

example pic of Nuvi speedo...

Had a car once that was 60% out. No joke!
Bought it second hand, and driving home i thought the car felt very fast. After a while i figured out someone had recalibrated it into mph rather than kph (measured some known distances and confirmed). So sperdo showing 80 means driving at about 130 lol

north-north-west wrote:Current Australian regulations, from RACQ:

For vehicles manufactured before July 2006:

An accuracy of +/- 10 percent of the vehicle’s true speed was needed when a vehicle was travelling above 40km/h. This means if a vehicle was travelling at a true speed of 100km/h, the speedo was allowed to indicate a reading between 90km/h and 110km/h.
An odometer accuracy of +/- 4 percent was also a requirement.

After 1 July 2006


The speedo must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle’s true speed or a speed greater than the vehicle’s true speed by an amount more than 10 percent plus 4 km/h.
The speedo must always read 'safe', meaning the vehicle's true speed must not be higher than the speed indicated by the speedo. So if a vehicle travelling at a true speed of 100km/h, the speedo must read between 100km/h and 114km/h. Another way of looking at this is if the speedo indicates a speed of 100km/h, the vehicle's true speed must be between 87.3 km/h and 100km/h.
There is now no requirement to have an odometer, and so there is no accuracy requirement.

I'd better hang on to my pre 1996 plonker,means I can do 110 km/h with immunity (that is, when it feels in the mood to do it).........

[quote="vicrev"
I'd better hang on to my pre 1996 plonker,means I can do 110 km/s with immunity (that is, when it feels in the mood to do it)......... [/quote]

Jeez I wish my old plonker was capable of a quarter a million miles an hour, it would take me no time at all to get to the hills

ROFL

Moondog55 wrote:...I wish my old plonker was capable of a quarter a million miles an hour...

SA's so called hoon laws would see you banned for life, bankrupted, jailed and your car would be crushed in our nanny state!

IF they could catch me.

Gotta dot the I's & cross the T's on this forum........

Moondog55 wrote:IF they could catch me.

The road Nazi's have got you covered in "The Whine State"!

Zone-5 wrote:

Moondog55 wrote:IF they could catch me.

The road Nazi's have got you covered in "The Whine State"!

Great stuff,Zone 5.. ..Could one be set up for slow walkers.........

Have Bunnings got them?...I will have a look tomorrow.....

I like the way the van is driving in reverse......to confuse the camera?...must try it...

The problem with wipe off 5 is that some people seem to get 5 mixed up with 20.

Next time I drive the Western Ring Road I'll keep my speed to 85k and watch all the people yell as they pass me

Had to endure speed cameras to and back from trailheads... Fortunately, I have never had to worry about speed cameras whilst bushwalking. Maybe they are coming but I'm still in bliss.