Brands that aren't/are what they once were-Insert Brand

[Spartan]

Clearly this chap has some sort of imaginary axe to grind, which might be why he's presenting as being two 'cams' short of a rack! Speaking of 'cams'; 'Blacksheep', I wandered into the Melbourne store during lunch last week and picked up an 'Escapade 150' liner (intended as a replacement for my very-well-used-and-loved US Army Poncho Liner). I simply had to give the thing a burl, so into the backyard I slipped that night with my '3 season' synthetic sleeping bag, 'Escapade 150' snugly fitted inside; goretex bivibag; and insulated airmat. And the result? I slept like the proverbial 'babe'. (FYI, the young lass who served me was extremely efficient and very helpful. I was in uniform; she quickly registered me for membership, then explained that I would receive future Defence discount pricing, all without me asking.

Another happy customer.

[Ent]

... the facts being, that macpac and fairy down are now owned by KATHMANDU...

Can you reference your source for this information please?

In fairness to the original poster on that point there are some cross pollination of people between Kathmandu and Macpac (worked at one point before going to Macpac) but yes as Wayno points out the companies are separate and growing more different in their approach to design.

The simple question is, "can a company be equally good at every thing they put their brand name on". Personally I hold that they cannot so prefer specialist companies that are very good at a particular set of items. A classic example is the SIG style water bottle. Just about every generic outdoor brand has such thing labeled with their brand but as I have found out a SIG bottle just works when subject to the real world why generic brands one fail, especially in the seals.

Cheers

[wildernesswanderer]

I agree to that to some extent, but as you mention SIG bottles, I have two, both have leaks, both have failed. Just because a company specialises in something doesn't mean it's perfect either

[stepbystep]

I agree to that to some extent, but as you mention SIG bottles, I have two, both have leaks, both have failed. Just because a company specialises in something doesn't mean it's perfect either

And I've got a knock off that still goes well after 6 years of pretty brutal treatment

[Nuts]

Macpac and Fairydown are actually owned by Mouton Noir. (mod)

Post edited, keep it friendly guys (or at least civil). I have no idea what the realities are at macpac, he's been asked to explain, that should be enough.


Iv'e only owned a jacket (that wasn't up to scratch). As a brand they seem a bit 'show pony', i don't know, doesn't really interest me.
Maybe it's time to lock this odd topic though, other brands aren't singled out in this way at least the owner drops in now and then (to defend macpac..)

[Hallu]

Well what we can all agree on is that the common practice of putting outrageous retail prices before slicing them almost all year round with sales has to stop (and it's not only MacPac)... Because if you urgently need a gear product that isn't on sale at an Aussie or NZ brand, you won't buy it full price, you'll simply buy American or European...

[Nuts]

I'm sure the research shows that the model pays. I don't hesitate to go OS for gear, all these local suppliers were quite happy to charge bucket loads while we didn't have easy OS access. 'One up' I guess on those who have come in and just re-branded cheap knock-offs.

Again, pretty much going nowhere? Lock it?

[wayno]

i dont think you should lock the thread if the-wanderers comments are left on since they havent been proven and they are contentious, if you're going to lock it, the-wanderers comments should be removed or perhaps moved since the comments pertains to a supposed ownership relationship with kathmandu, at any rate those comments should ahve a limited lifetime if there is no fact to them given they relate to commercial companies.

[Strider]

Yep let the situation explain itself, or be explained first. Otherwise Macpac will be left sitting in a bad light.

[Mountain Rocket]

Again, pretty much going nowhere? Lock it?

I concur.

[Miyata610]

I don't think it should be locked.

Cam and others have defended macpac quite well, most of the hysterical annecdotal arguments have proven to be just that.

A company's business model is of no concern to us, we can choose to not patronise them if we wish. Similarly the ownership or managerial structure should have nothing to do with us.

It seems odd that other brands haven't suffered the same abuse.... Maybe some users of their older products just took offence to Macpacs need to compete in the new market model.

It is sad that we choose to bash an almost local company so much (NZ is after all just a rogue state of Australia). But then of course we have very little interest in buying local or supporting each other I guess.

Personally I'd rather bash Cascade Designs for their restrictive trade practices and their exploitative pricing in Australia. That's reason enough to never buy any of their products.

[Greenie]

Personally I'd rather bash Cascade Designs for their restrictive trade practices and their exploitative pricing in Australia. That's reason enough to never buy any of their products.

There you go Phil...

Beside using a freight forwarder, what can we do?

[Miyata610]

Well done!

Well..... Stop buying their products.

Primus instead of MSR stoves and pots

Exped instead of thermarest

Etc etc

Works for me so far

[Strider]

Yep. I'm an Exped fan and just took delivery of a Primus pot today.

[sthughes]

I agree on boycotting Cascade Designs. But then you have to throw in Black Diamond and now apparently Hilleberg as well. Hence it get's hard to buy anything!

[Hallu]

On the contrary, Australia and NZ are surprisingly serious about buying local. You see "Aussie/NZ made" labels everywhere, and here the first time I asked why there were such ridiculous high gear prices here, many members became aggressively defensive of the local brands (which aren't locally made anymore anyway). You won't see that commitment to the "locally made" in European countries except for fresh food (because it's a law to clearly show the producing country). Besides, we all know it's made in Asia, so there's no point in buying local gear.

Regarding the locking of this topic, I can't see why it should be locked. I find it very useful, a newcomer who knows nothing about gear will understand that despite its high prices and stores everywhere, MacPac isn't the "gear messiah" and that European/American alternatives are often better for less. Granted, the title isn't exactly relevant to the content any more, it's becoming a "I like/I don't like" topic about MacPac products.

[Hallu]

Never heard the name before today, now I see they make Platypus, MSR, and Therm-a-Rest products, well I've never bought any of them. Exped and Camelback for me.

[Nuts]

A company's business model is of no concern to us, we can choose to not patronise them if we wish. Similarly the ownership or managerial structure should have nothing to do with us.

...


Personally I'd rather bash Cascade Designs for their restrictive trade practices and their exploitative pricing in Australia. That's reason enough to never buy any of their products.

_______

I don't want to get further involved, I may be the only one without an association here to moderate it i'll leave the topic open for now but don't think t-w's comment would really influence any purchase decision or moderation.

[sthughes]

On the contrary, Australia and NZ are surprisingly serious about buying local. You see "Aussie/NZ made" labels everywhere, and here the first time I asked why there were such ridiculous high gear prices here, many members became aggressively defensive of the local brands (which aren't locally made anymore anyway). You won't see that commitment to the "locally made" in European countries except for fresh food (because it's a law to clearly show the producing country). Besides, we all know it's made in Asia, so there's no point in buying local gear.

There is at least one brand I know still making great stuff in Melbourne

[Franco]

I am going to boycott this government because they don't let me import Chinese workers that are happy to get $5 a day.
I was going to get them from Africa for $2 a day but someone else beat me to it...

[doogs]

I like dogs, I wish people would stop referring to them in a derogatory many. Can we change the topic to "...gone to the cats?"?.

[Nuts]

Me too, the only thing that should go to the dogs... are cats!!!
My doggie loves his cut down (ie..failed) synmat when car camping

Beside using a freight forwarder, what can we do?

Well.... just use a freight forwarder?

[Ent]

Hi

I agree that in the gear world there are some practices that get slammed along with brands. Kathmandu marketing on sales get punished a far bit so it is not MacPac getting singled out. Cascade Design and Black Diamond have been pursued for their anti competitive marketing tactics. It always a puzzle why some brands feel that they can charge often twice USA prices and with MacPac online NZ prices being different to Australia and Europe.

Brands will always have supporters and detractors with either side calling the other fanatical. It will be a sad day when brands can not be challenged over gear quality, pricing, customer support and other aspects.

I love One Planet packs that are made in Australia and the fact that they are made in Australia means that I am not so worried by price. They have tents made off shore so I am happy to consider no special favours so look solely on price, design and quality considerations when comparing them to buy.

People might have noticed I like Hilleberg tents but I was horrified to learn that they are now being subject to hate Australians no direct shipping ban. I am disgusted by this and made my opinion felt. Still think they make great tents but morally will not buy them again unless they remove this anti competitive practice.

Cheers

[wildernesswanderer]

People might have noticed I like Hilleberg tents but I was horrified to learn that they are now being subject to hate Australians no direct shipping ban. I am disgusted by this and made my opinion felt. Still think they make great tents but morally will not buy them again unless they remove this anti competitive practice.

Cheers

What do you mean by this, they will not ship from overseas to Australia?

[Hallu]

Well just get a forwarding company, most brands already won't ship to Australia anyway (Patagonia, Arc'teryx, Marmot etc...).

[wayno]

if it wasnt for forwarding companies i wouldnt have most of the gear i currently have i'd have to settle for lesser quality or i'd be a lot poorer...

[sthughes]

People might have noticed I like Hilleberg tents but I was horrified to learn that they are now being subject to hate Australians no direct shipping ban. I am disgusted by this and made my opinion felt. Still think they make great tents but morally will not buy them again unless they remove this anti competitive practice.

Cheers

What do you mean by this, they will not ship from overseas to Australia?

I tried to buy a Hilleberg tent from Campsaver and was told I could not. I rang them up and asked if they were sure (as previously Hilleberg's hate only included South Korea and Japan), the guy went away and came back to confirm that he was correct and that Hilleberg have just banned them shipping to Oz. Seems strange as getting them locally is impossible, so I have emailed Hilleberg to confirm (and whinge a little!).

Am I the only one that finds having to use forwarding companies a bit of a nuisance?

[norts]

You can get them locally( well in Australia) , I suppose that is why the ban has been put in place.
http://mountainadventurecentre.com.au/s ... p?cPath=21

Also if you go to gumtree and search for hilleberg you will get someone in Hobart who is selling alot of Hilleberg gear.
Roger

[wayno]

maybe the distributors complained because it was affecting their bottom line. reading this forum would tell them that....
ironically often distributors cant get the retailers to stock their product or they just cherry pick the products they will stock...
rab has a nz distributor and its only stocked in a handful of ski shops.... no ones really winning. fact is often there just isnt the income for the distributors, berghaus distributor in nz gave up and sold up...

[Miyata610]

I tried to buy a Hilleberg tent from Campsaver and was told I could not. I rang them up and asked if they were sure (as previously Hilleberg's hate only included South Korea and Japan), the guy went away and came back to confirm that he was correct and that Hilleberg have just banned them shipping to Oz. Seems strange as getting them locally is impossible, so I have emailed Hilleberg to confirm (and whinge a little!).

Am I the only one that finds having to use forwarding companies a bit of a nuisance?

I bought a hilleberg tent from campsaver today.

Yep i was told by campsaver that i couldnt. A friendly email to hilleberg fixed that within minutes. New tent on it's way. And a nice apology from campsaver and one personally from Petra Hilleberg. Nice work.

Oh and 20% off and free shipping. Woo hoo.