Bivy bag help

[zac150]

I am keen to get a bivy bag and was hoping to get some help narrowing down options.

Firstly let me say I have a light weight tarp tent for bigger trips, but for fast light weight adventures I keen to try a bivy.

Now my issue / concern is getting in and out of them. I'm concerned that top entry bags are going to be a pain in the backside trying to get out of in the middle of the night when nature is calling.

I've searched the net to try and find a bag with a more extended side zip but am struggling.

I am assuming there is either a very good reason for this and bags are simply not made like that or for some reasons the photos and descriptions don't explain the true length of the zip.

[Mickl]

Are you after a bivy to use alone that needs to be fully waterproof or will it be used with a light weight tarp or similar?

If its not a full on waterproof bivy you're after I'd look at the MLD Superlight which has a zip across the chest and down the side, the Borah Gear bivy which also has a side zip or the Zpacks light weight option which I think has a zip down the middle. Also most of these companies will customize gear for you so you could request what you want....

Mick

[oyster_07]

+1 MLD Superlight

[Imprint]

Although not super light.

I love my USGI Goretex Bivy, as for me it's easy to get in and out.

Downsides, as no mesh head cover or hoops, it's literally a goretext sack. But works great.

ebay for reference
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TENNIER-IND-USG ... 339d8ef61c

[vanNek]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but has anyone used a blackwolf bivvy at all?


"No half measures, but..... Never go full retard"

[Mickl]

Haven't used one myself but various reports I have read on the Black Wolf bivy say huge issues with condensation.

[wayno]

some of the rab ones have longer zips. also depends on the design of hte bags, some are quite wide as well making getting in and out easier, they are often made to allow you to move around in your bag a reasonable amount without necessarily causing the cover to move, make sure you look at them in a shop if you can to understand the whole shape of the bivy

http://rab.uk.com/products/equipment/shelter/

[Moondog55]

Bivvy bags aren't camping equipment they are survival tools and I think we have too much confusion sometimes.
Sleeping bag covers don't need to be waterproof just water resistant, wind resistant and highly breathable
A bivvy bag on the other hand needs to be waterproof above all. OK; so I use mine all the time but I've learned how to do so and would never close it up while inside a tent or other shelter.
A short zip on one side helps a lot with ingress and egress but it really only needs to be about 400mm long to do that.
Bottom line in good weather almost anything will do so long as it keeps the dew off and in bad weather you want the very best you can find within your budget and breathability takes a second place to weatherproofing
A secondary design consideration too, will you use your pad inside or outside the cover/ If you use the pad on the inside than the bottom can be waterproof otherwise the whole thing needs to breath / use the pad on the inside and it needs to be bigger. There is no one easy answer as too much is situationally dependent
Fast answer is you will almost always need some sort of tarp and a groundsheet if you have a very breathable cover and with a more weatherproof cover you will have condensation issues

[photohiker]

Bivvy bags aren't camping equipment they are survival tools and I think we have too much confusion sometimes.

I think you mean a Bothy Bag?

A Bivvy bag is a bag that you put your sleeping kit in. Depending on the quality of the waterproofing and breath-ability it can be used without a shelter at all, but generally a shelter and groundsheet of some kind is used. A Bivvy bag is definitely camping equipment. A Bivvy bag can be used as survival equipment, but that is not it's primary purpose.

A Bothy bag is an emergency survival shelter, often for multiple people. In cold and windy conditions they are a great solution for rest breaks and meal times. You could sleep in them, but they are more stormproof and not so breathable. Great for recovering core temps on a ratty cold hike. The temperatures inside quickly warm up due to wind isolation and body heat.

[wayno]

anyone used a bothy bag outside of Britain? I've only heard of them through the internet

[photohiker]

Probably an emergency item here in Australia, but they are here:

http://www.backpackinglight.com.au/stor ... er/dp/6494

http://www.bogong.com.au/lifesystems-bo ... ter-2.html

[Moondog55]

Bivvy bags aren't camping equipment they are survival tools and I think we have too much confusion sometimes.

I think you mean a Bothy Bag?

A Bivvy bag is a bag that you put your sleeping kit in. Depending on the quality of the waterproofing and breath-ability it can be used without a shelter at all, but generally a shelter and groundsheet of some kind is used. A Bivvy bag is definitely camping equipment. A Bivvy bag can be used as survival equipment, but that is not it's primary purpose.

A Bothy bag is an emergency survival shelter, often for multiple people. In cold and windy conditions they are a great solution for rest breaks and meal times. You could sleep in them, but they are more stormproof and not so breathable. Great for recovering core temps on a ratty cold hike. The temperatures inside quickly warm up due to wind isolation and body heat.

Admittedly it's only my opinion but I would differ
No I really do think bivvie [bivvy] bags are emergency gear, as are bothy-bags.
Using the climbers terminology of a bivvy being a night out without camping gear, either planned or unplanned and an unplanned bivvy is an emergency in my experience, having had a few in my time.
A sleeping bag cover is an item of equipment the primary purpose of which is to protect the sleeping bag. A bivvy bag on the other hand has the primary purpose of keeping you alive in adverse circumstances
The original bivvy bags were made from thick plastic in bright orange and still sold as such
The use of WPBs has broadened the use of bivvy bags but for the same amount of money a tent offers far better protection, where a bivvie bag excels is it offers excellent protection for minimum mass and bulk, even my Foxhole is small compared to even my smallest tent
I guess I'm showing my age here

[wayno]

modern bivy bags are often waterproof but let the moisture out as well and are designed for repeated planned bivouacs and often used for that, what moondog is describing is a survival or emergency bag made for one off use.
sleeping bag cover is at one end of the bivy bag range, its more basic, but bivy bags now encompass a range of designs that can come close to being one man tents
just look at the range that RAB puts out as examples

http://rab.uk.com/products/equipment/shelter/

[photohiker]

All good Moondog, Bivys have clearly moved on from your past experience. Perhaps they used to be emergency gear but that is no longer their primary use.

I have the Bristlecone bivvy, this is what the manufacturer says about it:

The Bristlecone Bivy is lightweight, easy to use, and highly breathable, making it perfect for tarp camping or use under a floorless shelter.

I use mine under a tarp (TrailStar) when I think conditions are suitable. I also have a 'nest' which converts the TS into a tent arrangement. The Bivvy is very light, packs small and does a good job under the tarp of keeping the sleeping bag protected from spray and me from insects.

This is not emergency gear, but I'm sure you can find one that is. Most bivvys on the market are camping gear, generally aimed at either lightweight camping or alpine pursuits.

[Moondog55]

That's the thing, I would not under any circumstances consider the Bristlecone a bivvy bag, it's what I would call a sleeping bag cover where-as my Foxhole is truly waterproof/storm proof even if only moderately breathable being only 3rd generation Goretex A lot is down to our own interpretation
For that sort of use I would use Evans Tyvek unit and if i needed a zipper I'd have him put in a short side zipper

[slparker]

I have reservations about the bristlecone as well - to me a bivvy that needs a tarp over the top is not a bivvy bag - it's a sleeping bag cover. Not having a go at you or your choice of gear, photohiker - i can see why you'd use it under a tarp - it's a great idea as membrane bivvy bags can be sweaty and horrible; but surely a bivvy bag is meant to be a shelter in and of itself?

[photohiker]

Horses for courses. I think we are trying to tie the meaning of 'bivvy' into a very narrow, restricted meaning here.

The Bristlecone's designed to be used under a tarp. The manufacturer says it has a waterproof floor with a water resistant upper to protect your sleeping bag from spray and mist. That doesn't mean it isn't a bivvy bag, it just means it is a bivvy bag designed for particular use.

There are plenty of similar bivvys, TiGoat, Borah Gear, etc. which are 'water resistant' not waterproof. The trade-off for waterproofness is less breathability, even with better fabrics. If you are using a waterproof bivvy for multiple days, check the inner surface for condensation when packing up and weigh your SB at the end of the trip, you'll be surprised.

I also have a RAB Event bivvy that can survive rain, it weighs 3x the Bristlecone. The RAB works well, is not as convenient to use, but the weight kills it unless I am going sans shelter in wet conditions, which is not my idea of fun - I'd just take a tent or the bristlecone/tarp instead.

[Moondog55]

That is why I disagree. Bivvy is a very narrow not to mention usually uncomfortable thing to do.
It implies a lack of either time or planning or the inability to carry camping equipment. I blame the makers for the confusion not the end users but to imply by naming that something is storm proof which is what a bivvy bag should be is bordering on the fraudulent
I know it's taking the narrow view but I'd rather do that than have some-one rely on something for protection when it won't offer any real protection except from light spray or dew
Pertex quantum [and similar fabric] isn't in my opinion storm proof enough to warrant the use of the term bivvy
The Rab bivvy I would trust
Your last sentence seems to agree with my whole argument

[wayno]

the genre of bivy bags in reality dont necessarily have anything to do with Bivying anymore, the term has been hijacked and used ina a range of sleeping bag cover designs... such is life.... one day bothy bags may end up being marque's tents....
reminds me of the car industry, remember the first Honda Civics? how small they were?... a four seater that was so small the back seats were barely useable... and a glove box for a boot.... today its a far bigger medium sized car with a far more powerful engine. the only thing it has in common with the original is the name...

[zac150]

Many thanks for the responses, I think this discussions has really helped narrow down what I was after.

Essentially I wanted a sleeping bag cover as I do intend to use under a tarp, and therefore not the principle defence against rain etc.

I managed to pick up a great secondhand option through this site as well as one via gumtree for a friend.

[FootTrack]

Many thanks for the responses, I think this discussions has really helped narrow down what I was after.

Essentially I wanted a sleeping bag cover as I do intend to use under a tarp, and therefore not the principle defence against rain etc.

I managed to pick up a great secondhand option through this site as well as one via gumtree for a friend.

Hey Zac,

I take it you bought the Integral Designs bivy that was on here a little while ago? I'm by no means a bivy expert but I think that, given that one was made of eVent, it is probably more of an alpine type bivy rather than the 'sleeping bag cover' type bivy mentioned on here early. Therefore, I think you'll find you'll have to ventilate it reasonable well if you're out for numerous nights to prevent "wetting out" your sleeping bag from your perspiration. Or you might have to air/dry your sleeping bag out in the sun every so often to prevent it from becoming damp. From memory that bivy did have a side zipper though so that gives you some flexibility in regards to ventilation at night.

Just thought I'd give you a heads up. You certainly shouldn't have too many issues with getting your system wet from the outside though, and that style bivy would be a great emergency shelter if you're ever up in the snow.