Bushwalk Australia

Remember the 20lbs something of down , custom made , Feathered Friends sleeping bag ?
Well the Cocoon has made a re-appearance in the for sale section at Backpackinglight ( love the irony there...)
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... _id=102452


If you have a spare $1700 USD, this is your chance !

He is certainly a salesman. Can't complain about the lack of information

I was glad that he posted all of those details as well as those photos.
Every so often someone comes up with the idea of an air inflated sleeping bag.
The Cocoon is the only one I know of, but there was very little info on it available before apart from the drawing I posted and a couple of other photos.
I bet that it can float, could be really handy in the Arctic right now. (on ice one moment, in the water the next)

What, it doesn't come with an internal heater?

The heater is switched on automatically when you get in.

'Slope compensators equalize uneven, sloping ground'

It can be hard to find a flat spot for a tent sometimes, but just where would you be sleeping where you couldn't even find a spot big enough for a mat and bag?

Franco wrote:Remember the 20lbs something of down , custom made , Feathered Friends sleeping bag ?
Well the Cocoon has made a re-appearance in the for sale section at Backpackinglight ( love the irony there...)
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... _id=102452


If you have a spare $1700 USD, this is your chance !

Is states 10lb (5kg) somewhere in the thread on BPL. Edit:here it says 12 lb (5.4 kg). http://www.trailspace.com/gear/pneugear/cocoon-4/

Sounds reasonable if you're paddling, skiing or walking in the arctic - what would an expedition tent+mat+ bag + sleeping gear normally weigh?

I reckon my original thermarest, PP sleeping bag, minaret tent and 'just in case' bivvy bag that I used in my 20s would weigh more than that

Just re-read my badly worded sentence .
The Feathered Friends custom bag and the Cocoon are not one and the same, just two bags at the very top of list of the warmest bag claim .
This is the "overfilled" FF Snowy Owl :

(it has 7.2kg of down inside there. Not exactly 20lbs but getting close )

For the intended purpose (Arctic weather) the Cocoon is not in fact heavy considering that it can be used as a shelter, it is a waterproof bivy with a -40 sleeping bag and a -40 mat all in one.

Franco wrote:For the intended purpose (Arctic weather) the Cocoon is not in fact heavy considering that it can be used as a shelter, it is a waterproof bivy with a -40 sleeping bag and a -40 mat all in one.

The problem with using it as a bivy is, one would have frozen still b/n the time of taking the arctic cloth outer off and getting into the cocoon.

If they could seal it up just so it might double as a Gamow bag.

Franco (or anyone) -- does it say anywhere what the original retail price was?

It is large enough to get inside fully arctic dressed and be able to undress. (apparently...)
Not sure of the original price but I think it was around $2000 USD, I expect that only a few were made so it could go up in price rather then down.
This should give a better idea of its size :



I am about to talk myself into buying it, should be good up at Mt Sterling.

Did the designer really planned to have the user's head out of the bag?

Looks like the brain bug from starship troopers

GPSGuided wrote:Did the designer really planned to have the user's head out of the bag?

I can't really make it out but I think that the bag itself, up to the neck, acts like vapour barrier - so the body section is totally separated from the head which, as you can imagine, produces the bulk of the body's water vapour. The head section has a canopy over the top for weather protection and there is a separate hood section to the bag itself as far as I can make out.

Yes , you are correct.

There is that rolled up cover tha goes over the mesh and then the sort of vestibule cover/fly that goes over that .

Franco wrote:Not sure of the original price but I think it was around $2000 USD...

I looked at the archived manufacturer web site and found the original pricing.

Base price for a 6'0" model was $1095 USD. Options including zippers and a pillow could add $250. The canopy, the bivy/tent part of it, was an additional $200. An optional hood (with "Adjustable eyebrow cover - keeps blood supply to your nose warm") was $50 more. So $1600 fully loaded. The "Extreme" model, which is 6'6" long, was $1500 and included pillow and extra zippers. So fully loaded that one would be $1800.

Base weight was 8 or 9 lbs (for the 6'0" model), depending on choice of fabric. The canopy (1lb) and hood (7oz) as well as other options could push this up into the double digits. The extreme model (base weight of 10 or 11.5lbs depending on the fabric choice) with the canopy but no hood would weigh 11 or 12.5lbs. Include the hood and it would be at least 13lbs.

For comparison, a Western Mountaineering -40°F down bag weighs 4.75 lbs and costs $1100. Adding a 4" thick sleeping pad (Thermarest MondoKing, R11, 4.75-6lbs, $150-$180) and a bivy tent (BD Spotlight 1.1lbs $220) would push the weight and cost into the same ballpark.

The one the guy is selling on BPL is an Extreme with a canopy but apparently no hood, so it would have retailed for $1700 -- which is exactly what he's asking. It appears to be in very good condition. It's 15 years old. I wonder what it smells like?

Orion wrote:
It's 15 years old. I wonder what it smells like?

To quote Han Solo:
"I thought they smelt bad (pause) on the outside!"

slparker wrote:

Franco wrote:Remember the 20lbs something of down , custom made , Feathered Friends sleeping bag ?
Well the Cocoon has made a re-appearance in the for sale section at Backpackinglight ( love the irony there...)
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... _id=102452


If you have a spare $1700 USD, this is your chance !

Is states 10lb (5kg) somewhere in the thread on BPL. Edit:here it says 12 lb (5.4 kg). http://www.trailspace.com/gear/pneugear/cocoon-4/

Sounds reasonable if you're paddling, skiing or walking in the arctic - what would an expedition tent+mat+ bag + sleeping gear normally weigh?

I reckon my original thermarest, PP sleeping bag, minaret tent and 'just in case' bivvy bag that I used in my 20s would weigh more than that

Well let's see:

WE Second Arrow: 1.8kg, $700
Rab Expedition 1400 (-40C): 2.1kg, $1200 (from US)
Exped Downmat XP 9: 0.9kg, $300
CCF Mat: 0.3kg, $20
MLD Superlight Bivy: 0.2kg, $200
= 5.4kg, $2420 AUD ~ $1900 USD.

So similar weight and price but it's a lot more comfortable, versatile and more redundant. And less weird.

I did read ages ago some info on the development of this bag.
Of course I can't remember any of it now.
Still I know that a lot of research went into it and possibly running out of money during the R&D meant no money for marketing.
Anyway, given that the target market was Arctic expeditions (I think...) with the idea that you could start and finish with a bag that was of the same weight and R rating at the end as it was at the beginning (down to -40 and below) , the problem I see is that you need to be fully inside (except for your head) for it to work.
In those Arctic conditions the air is very dry so you need to drink more than usual to remain hydrated.
Given the conditions that can mean 3 to 4 hours a day (and more) spent melting water and cooking.
That is typically done by being inside your sleeping bag with your full insulation layers on and having the stove next to you at full blast melting snow.
Can't do that with that bag...

Photo from Google.
Joomy
An MLD Superlight bivy would be totally useless at -30 or 40c.

Franco wrote:An MLD Superlight bivy would be totally useless at -30 or 40c.

I only included it because slparker mentioned having a "just in case" bivy bag. But I can't see why an MLD bivy sized suitably wouldn't work in -40C.

I realise that it was just an example, still I would not use a bivy made with 10d fabric, metal zip puller and N3 zip at -20c or below...

Franco wrote:I realise that it was just an example, still I would not use a bivy made with 10d fabric, metal zip puller and N3 zip at -20c or below...

Perhaps, but "totally useless" is quite an over-statement.

From reading the design spec the strength of the bag is that the down cannot get damp and and cannot freeze at it is enclosed in a vapour barrier, therefore removing the possibility of condensation, precipitation or (for paddling) immersive insulation loss. Reviews of the bag point to its utility in the environment for which it was created.
I have no reason to defend the bag and have no intimate knowledge of arctic exploration. I merely pointed out that it isn't any heavier than the combo that I used to carry in tassy in summer.

Sure, but you can use a vapour barrier liner with any regular bag. And most expedition bags are already quite water resistant.

Send one to ballarat please. A bit fresh up here.

This will bump this back to the top...

Does anyone sleep cold?



Maybe this is what you need?

I'd not take something that fragile to the Antarctic. Anyway not applicable to anything really except for man-hauling/snow sled expeditions. Almost all Antarctic travel these days uses tractors and insulated cabins on sleds or are flown in with and use apple shelters etc

If a sleeping bag insulates you enough for whatever you want to do (summer, winter, Arctic) then there will be no vapour transmission on the outside of it, as all the heat will be within the bag.

The only reason you need some "water-resistance"on the outside of the bag is to reduce outside water sources dampening your down - eg tent condensation, rain etc.

A vapour barrier assists keeping the heat within the sleeping system. Less heat loss from inner equals less insulation to keep it this way, so lighter sleeping bag. However, if you get hot in a vapour barrier , you will sweat , and end up damp. It's difficult (in Oz) to work out where that threshold is, even in winter. I personally don't think it's cold enough here to use a
vapour barrier effectively. My "quilt" allows enough variability for all seasons use.

A

However if you are using a VB and you get too warm it is very easy to open up the top and vent the excess heat and moisture. I generally find anything above -10C too warm to use a VB but there are circumstances where I have used one to good effect, the use of a partial VB tho is more forgiving
If the SOL breathable reflective bag was more realistically priced I would be willing to trial that rather than the sweaty garbage bag I keep for emergencies
Tyvek works well as a partial VB