Bushwalk Australia

I saw an advert for these on sale:
http://www.rivers.com.au/catalogdb/prod ... tegory=133

Womens products also available. Has anyone purchased any of these jackets they could advise if they are a good purchase or not?

Not sure but the price seems good...



MATERIAL(S): Polyester, Waterproof and vapour proof.

...not too sure I like the vapour proof bit!

Built in Sauna system

probably some factory is still churning out original formula goretex or something similar, and having to dump it on the market cheap. Since rivers stuff seems to be the cheapest stuff they can source, I'd wonder how nasty it is.

I might end up buying one for my ever growing 11 year old daughter...
We'll see how it lasts...

I'd like you to come back and give us all a review of it from new and being worn...

Can anyone explain what on earth the point of a waterproof vest is? http://www.rivers.com.au/catalogdb/item ... &G=2womens

Actually I had one and didn't know it was waterproof until one time out in the boat there was some chop and water was spraying over us. I was getting a drenching but under the vest I was dry! So if you are in a warm climate then maybe it would help... but I know what you mean!

Yes waterproof vests are great for working on the water. Especially if you spend a lot of time leaning over wet gunwhales etc.

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AlexB wrote:Can anyone explain what on earth the point of a waterproof vest is? http://www.rivers.com.au/catalogdb/item ... &G=2womens

Highly aerobic activities such as cycling, running and paddling. When sleeves and hood is too restrictive / too hot.

Probably OK for walking in the right climate with a waterproof hat I suppose.

Vests are great for core warmth. The blurb only states 'wind and water resistant'.

As for 'vapour proof', anyone can translate 2000g/m2 24hr in vapour permeability means?

Ed: Found my answer - LOW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breathability

GPSGuided wrote:Vests are great for core warmth. The blurb only states 'wind and water resistant'.

As for 'vapour proof', anyone can translate 2000g/m2 24hr in vapour permeability means?

Ed: Found my answer - LOW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breathability

The wikipedia page describes softshells and windstopper as having far less performance (in terms of vapour transmissibility) than goretwx! could that be right?

The Wiki referenced this PDF comparison document from a US defence related agency.
http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gea ... bility.pdf

GPSGuided wrote:Vests are great for core warmth. The blurb only states 'wind and water resistant'.

As for 'vapour proof', anyone can translate 2000g/m2 24hr in vapour permeability means?

Ed: Found my answer - LOW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breathability

it will let out less than 100ml of water per square metre per hour, which isnt nearly enough to cope with the sweat output from bushwalking on an average day. the latest jackets can let twenty times the amount of moisture through the waterproof membrane in perfect conditions

GPSGuided wrote:The Wiki referenced this PDF comparison document from a US defence related agency.
http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gea ... bility.pdf

The paper that the wiki cited does not mention softshells...

it seems wrong that a waterproof membrane would transfer vapour better than windstopper but having just got a pertex Air Permeable (similar to eVent, I believe) cycling jacket it seems just as (if not more) 'breathable' than an equivalent windstopper jacket......

Bugger - they appear to have gone from the website

slparker wrote:

GPSGuided wrote:The Wiki referenced this PDF comparison document from a US defence related agency.
http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gea ... bility.pdf

The paper that the wiki cited does not mention softshells...

it seems wrong that a waterproof membrane would transfer vapour better than windstopper but having just got a pertex Air Permeable (similar to eVent, I believe) cycling jacket it seems just as (if not more) 'breathable' than an equivalent windstopper jacket......

windstopper has been around for a long time, its old technology, i'm not sure if or how much its changed over the years, gore tex has changed a lot over the years, it was nowhere near as good as it is today but there werent the similar alternatives when it came out, nothing else that let moisture through was waterproof, at the time it was better than the competition but thats not saying much, event is more recent technology but still not that new but there are different variants of it.
neoshell is easily more breathable than windstopper and its waterproof, i've yet to overload a neoshell with sweat on a dry day, no moisture permeable membrane works well when its raining with a hundred percent humidity outside, and it won't let moisture out at all once the outside of the fabric is wet.
gore tex focused mainly on being waterproof first and breathable second..
some of the other membranes, while being more moisture permeable can be moire prone to letting moisture back in in some conditions, if your thighs rub together the pressure of that can be enough to force water back in through some membranes, if you sit down on the fabric that can force moisture back thorugh, belts and pack straps can create enough pressure to force moisture back through... although the membranes could still be "storm proof" resist the water pressure from rain hitting the fabric up to a relatively high air speed. there are still conitions apart from the rain hitting it where you can still exceed the waterproo hydrostatic head of the membrane.
so the makers spout their laboratory statistics where the membranes are only tested under a limited range of environmental conditions the statistics arent relevant in all the conditions you will come across in the real world. Gore tex saying "guaranteed to keep you dry" is just getting away with a lie that no one has legally challenged to stop them from saying it when they were saying it, i'm not sure that they still are saying it... its marketing hype. i've been rained on long enough and hard enough to know, there is no fabric out there that will keep you dry in all wet weather conditions.. you choose the material relative to the conditions you are going to walk in, some people risk sailing close to the wind to err on the side of bein more moisture and air permeable but not being storm proof and some err on the side of being storm proof and sacrifice the breathability.. Its risk management to a certain extent when you start doing that, you need to know what you're doing and really understand how the fabric will and won't function.
I always have a dry change of clothes for the end of the day, because if its raining a lot, i'm almost guaranteed to need them.

wayno wrote:

slparker wrote:

GPSGuided wrote:The Wiki referenced this PDF comparison document from a US defence related agency.
http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gea ... bility.pdf

The paper that the wiki cited does not mention softshells...

it seems wrong that a waterproof membrane would transfer vapour better than windstopper but having just got a pertex Air Permeable (similar to eVent, I believe) cycling jacket it seems just as (if not more) 'breathable' than an equivalent windstopper jacket......

windstopper has been around for a long time, its old technology, i'm not sure if or how much its changed over the years, .

Windstopper has changed in form but i am not sure how much the original membrane has changed. My first windstoper jacket had 3 layers, I think, a membrane layer against the skin and a fleece outer (for some reason they didn't think to reverse it back in the 90s). It wasn't particularly warm but was good in strong wind and light precipitation. It didn't breathe particularly well.
I had a next gen windstopper jacket in the eraly 2000s and it was 'softshell' so fleece on the inside, smooth face on the outside. It wasn't particularly warm but was good in strong wind and light precipitation. It didn't breathe particularly well.
I bought a newer generation windstopper vest about 2005, which i still have, and it has no fleece - just a very thin plasticky fabric. I use it for cycling around 0c. I also have a jacket with arms in the same fabric (purely for cycling - although I have used it x-country skiing) the fabric is 'gore windstopper AS'. They are surprisingly water resistant and i wonder how different the fabricv is to gore-tex AS, but without the seam sealing. They are not especially breathable (the jacket, particularly, becoming very clammy during extended use) but better than the old version, I feel.

For walking i eschew windstopper or any membrane style wind-proof material these days- preferring pertex woven 'windshirt' style garments instead; as they breathe much better. For cycling windstopper has it's place, particularly on the front face of garments (with a non-gore back) - but I feel that for most applications windstopper is too clammy for anything but stationary or niche applications. I am baffled at how often they are used for walking - they trap too much perspiration for anything but light or day walking, I think.

I just found a little list of alternatives to Gore-Tex...

◾eVent: The most high-profile Gore-Tex alternative, made using an ePTFE (ie. stretched teflon) membrane that's similar to Gore-Tex. Initially developed by BHA group but eventually acquired by GE Energy (ripe for 30 rock parody) and licensed to clothing manufactures to be sold under different names.

◾Sympatex: Waterproof, windproof, and breathable membrane made from a "closed" polyther-polyester copolymer. It differs from eVent and Gore-Tex in that it doesn't have micropores for breathability--water vapor is passed through by way of an absorption and evaporation process.

◾Omni-Dry: Columbia sportswear's proprietary fabric.

◾NeoShell: Another recent major competitor to Gore-Tex, by Polartec. Claims to be the most breathable waterproof fabric on the market by not requiring high heat or pressure for air flow.

◾OutDry and Dry. Q: Proprietary technologies owned by Mountain Hardware clothing company. OutDry omits extra layers between the breathable membrane and outer shell, so water is not kept in the garment. Dry Q. lets moisture and air pass without getting warm. and uses technology licensed from GE's eVent.

◾HyVent: The North Face's own proprietary fabric.

◾H2No: Made by Patagonia, uses polyester and polyurethane laminates to achieve waterproofing and breathability. Reportedly very durable.

◾MemBrain: Similar to H2No in that it uses a polyurethane polymer laminate, but doesn't "breathe" as well as Gore-Tex.

Personally I've only seen GoreTex and NeoShell... haven't really seen any others...

The ridiculous of the whole situation is, there are additional ranges of membranes within each of those brands and products, leaving the selection almost unfathomable for the average consumer.

GPSGuided wrote:Vests are great for core warmth. The blurb only states 'wind and water resistant'.

As for 'vapour proof', anyone can translate 2000g/m2 24hr in vapour permeability means?

Ed: Found my answer - LOW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breathability

Having no arms at the shoulder, it may let out a whole lot more sweat and perspiration than the specs has allowed for...

Aztec wrote:Bugger - they appear to have gone from the website

They be still for sale! Just at full price now - http://www.rivers.com.au/catalogdb/prod ... tegory=335

I got one on sale, have a few walks coming up so will see how it fairs.

GPSGuided wrote:The ridiculous of the whole situation is, there are additional ranges of membranes within each of those brands and products, leaving the selection almost unfathomable for the average consumer.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=20310

Krudler wrote:I got one on sale, have a few walks coming up so will see how it fairs.

Great, even a pre-walk review would be welcome...

These are back on sale if you sign up to the free membership..

I've been wearing mine around, the small is still a little large for me but it will do, it has elastic adjustable lines on both sides at the hips, one at the back of the hood and two in the side of the hood at the front (annoying IMO). All the pocket zips have the little hoods on them that the zipper hides under when fully done up and the zipper tracks themselves have that black material coating to help keep water out (rubber maybe? all i know is it is like the coating on my motorcycle luggage and seems to work). Cuffs don't seem to have any extra elastity compared to the rest of the jacket material, the cuff closure system is a hard plastic tab with the 'heavy duty velcro' (like this http://mms.businesswire.com/media/20140 ... in_pkg.jpg) but the mate on the cuff is the standard soft velcro material (not sure how long this will last)

My GF purchased the female one at the same time, female cuff is elasticated and standard velcro fastening. It doesn't have the breast pocket but it does have a little cover over the top of the main zip so you don't get your face zipped! Not sure why the guys one doesn't include this.

I was going to go for a cycle with it on to see how it would fair in the rain/physical exertion however it was already dark. Might try tomorrow and report back!

Krudler wrote:I got one on sale, have a few walks coming up so will see how it fairs.

Me too, but got the black vest only... http://www.rivers.com.au/catalogdb/item ... 35&G=1mens

Probably not really designed to keep you warm but definitely for dryness and the wind chills & rain out. Just what I need under my umbrella!

All seams are wide taped, high collar, storm flap, chin guard, draw cord waist, big 'hand warmer' pockets, glasses pocket, two big internal map pockets and full length taped zippers.
Polyester shell, full 3-layer ????-TEX laminate, micro fleece lining BUT its a vest so no arms or a hood == light weight.

Actually very nice to wear and looks great!

Paid $30 for it (bargain)...

Yesh i picked up the hooded version today. For what i paid $42 i think i think its alright. Funny the sizing was mentioned above as someone who generally wears L or XL the medium was even almost a little on the big side for me. See how it goes id take it if i was expecting a good downpour. Probably warm enough for most NSW weather around me too

perfectlydark wrote:Yesh i picked up the hooded version today. For what i paid $42 i think i think its alright. Funny the sizing was mentioned above as someone who generally wears L or XL the medium was even almost a little on the big side for me. See how it goes id take it if i was expecting a good downpour. Probably warm enough for most NSW weather around me too

I ended up picking up one of the long sleeve coats... seems good quality for $40 - water certainly beads off the fabric well...
Will head up to Marriotts Falls this week and see how it goes...

Are the coats a stretchy material because the vests are not. Even thought they feel the same to the touch the vests are not a stretchy material.

However ...out on a very windy mountain at 4º to 5º C for 5 hours; tested wind and rain proof.

- - - - - - - - -

Fabric does not like barbed wire!

Zone-5 wrote:Are the coats a stretchy material because the vests are not. Even thought they feel the same to the touch the vests are not a stretchy material.

However ...out on a very windy mountain at 4º to 5º C for 5 hours; tested wind and rain proof.

- - - - - - - - -

Fabric does not like barbed wire!

Yes there is a little bit of stretch in the jacket

Krudler wrote:They be still for sale! Just at full price now - http://www.rivers.com.au/catalogdb/prod ... tegory=335

NOW $35.00 (was $89.95)
AVAILABLE IN: S, M, L, XL, XXL