Bushwalk Australia

Hi,
I am getting back into the fold in the next 6 months and am looking at my old gear.

I will be generally planning on walking/fishing in from Lake Ada in Tas for my camping.

I have a old but pristine condition paddy pallin jagungal mountain series down sleeping bag. I used it a few times before I moved up to Townsville but remember being somewhat cold on a few nights over summer back in 03/04 when camped at lake antimony. I was on an old 2cm self inflating thermarest under a macpac olympus.
From a bit of research, I can see a whole lot has changed in the sleeping mat department. I will be looking to get something like the exped downmat 9 or similar.

So I was wondering if anybody cal recall what this bags Temp rating was so I can judge whether I may need to upgrade it or maybe the new sleeping mat may be of enough help.

Cheers
Mark

I get the understanding that the weight of a down bag (of decent quality and with reference to dimension) would give a good indication of warmth.

I don't have any scales that would be able to measure an item of such low weight, but I remember (ish) it was 850 loft and has a pertex outer and at the time was somewhere in the order of $850. Tried the pallin site but it was of little use.

Edit: Using a simple balance beam it weighs in around 2kg in its (cotton storage bag)

850 loft is obviously on the higher end of quality. 2kg is very heavy for current generation down bags but not sure of the fabric used on the bag. Try weighing it without the stuff bag. Depending on your bag's outer fabric, current generation down filled to the 600g range can equate to a -5-10C bag and weigh in the 1kg range. An example is Marmot's Plasma. Given the age of the bag, the warmth/loft may also have been affected by age and use. Try washing it with a quality down cleaning mix and then tumble dry to instruction. Likely will improve its performance.
http://marmot.com/products/details/plasma-15-new
Sleeping mat performance may have been the bigger problem for your past experience. Current generation mats are far better on a cold ground.

It has tags for Gore Dryloft and Pertex. Otherwise its 100% nylon inner and out and 100% down.

The bag had minimal use, maybe less then 10 days. Still looks as new. Always been stored in its cotton sack in a tea chest.

Thanks for the link, That bag is half the weight of mine :}.

But that spec weight would have been without the carry bag ie. Just the sleeping bag. Another area where weight gets shaved these days is in the cut of the bag. Make a visual estimation of the proportion and I think you'll be close to the temp rating for your bag. The next step is to take it out for a test and see, with your new mat. Then everyone is different in terms of temperature comfort and the temp rating goes out the window.

According to the BNSW post about sleeping bags, the Jagungal weighs 1550g.

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ECMark
The amount of down inside the bag will give a close enough idea of how you can compare it to modern equivalent bags.
Since you can't find the spec , weigh your sleeping bag by itself (no stuff sack at all, or just deduct the weight of the stuff sack afterwards) then divide that SB only weight by two .
(there is a pretty good chance that the DryLoft fabric is about half of the weight)
Now compare the weight of the down in your bag with this chart :

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/in ... ntentId=71
(example Your bag is 1kg, about 500g of down = about -4)
Make sure you match length and cut (mummy or not...)

I should have added that the above works if comparing down with the same fill power* , otherwise you need to adjust for it.
Come to think of it , measuring by loft gets you there a bit faster, however that is not 100% accurate either.
*I saw the comment about the PP bag having 850 loft but I doubt that it did have that.

Thanks guys,
I will weigh it better when I can access better scales.
Thanks for the links and advice
Mark

Here's some stuff I found in my Paddy Pallin archive -

"Jagungal - A true mountain bag, the Jagungal is designed to counter severe cold. There's a generous 950gm of down carefully distributed in an advanced mummy shell, for maximum warmth but minimum weight. A three panel oval foot, extra deep 3-D draft flap, a collar muff with drawcord closure and contoured hood all minimise heat loss."
FILL: 90/10
DOWN: 950g
TOTAL WEIGHT: 1.75
GRADE: 5"

I don't know how the temp ratings worked back then, but "Grade 5" sounds like the one.

5" might be the loft height? Going by WM specs, this would equate to 20F and is roughly consistent with the -4C suggestion earlier in this thread.

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I would suggest that 950g of down in a mummy bag is going to serve you well in Tassie.

My memory tells me that the Paddy Jagungal bag was supposed to be a serious winter/ski-touring bag and was rated to well below freezing comfortably
I had a Bimberi of the same era and it was a very good bag for cool summers and the shoulder seasons
Is it possible on the occasions you were cold at night you were tired and not well fed and hydrated and went to bed already cold?
The Gore shell will be adding considerable to the overall weight but it means no bivvy bag needed

Hi ECmark,

I have a Macpac Solstice sleeping bag which sounds like it is of similar spec (it has 900g of down, though not super high loft from memory), similar weight and I believe is a similar vintage to the Jagungal. Mine has some sort of waterproof shell, which is something I don't like.

Running with the assumption that the bags are similar the Jagungal should be plenty of bag for Tassie. I would guess I have spent maybe all up around 100 nights in a tent in Tassie in the Solstice. It has also been to some other cold parts of the world. I suspect that your sleeping mat may have been a significant part of why you were cold those years ago and/or the down is dirty and collapsed.

Having said that my current bag (Marmot Plasma 15) is just about as warm as the Solstice at half the weight. Actually, with the addition of a vapour barrier I would say it is warmer than the Solstice (without a vapour barrier). It is a cleverer design all round.

Thanks for the replies.

Yes I was not really looking after myself back then, just fishing then falling asleep usually eating thenext day, as you do when your younger.

As money is no object nowadays, and seeing how much progress there has been in gear, I have decided to upgrade the bag and get a new mat and tent.

Thanks again

Mark

My recollections of the Jagungal are in line with MDs. It was a seriously warm bag with similar spec to the J&H Winterlite of the time (although I prefer the W/L ) It was always my untested opinion that J&H used better, higher lofting down than Paddy.

IIRC, the grading numbers were a sensible attempt by Paddy to give an indication of the use for which the bags in their range were suitable. The higher the number, the more extreme the conditions. "5"would have no direct correlation to temperature, and if that bag were laid flat and allowed to loft, I would be surprised if it's total loft was not at least seven, maybe as much as eight inches. Cosy

ECMark wrote:Thanks for the replies.
As money is no object nowadays, and seeing how much progress there has been in gear, I have decided to upgrade the bag and get a new mat and tent.

Thanks again

Mark

Well in that case just send me the old Jagungal and I'll add it to the winter stash for others to use this winters ski camp at Pretty Valley

"others" ????

Well it does appear that I'm the grand Old Man of the Mountain. I have quite stash of donated gear here now for sharing thanx to OSM; S358 and others
Not much got used last year but it did the year before
My own winter bags are just a small step above the Jagungal already

nq111 wrote: my current bag (Marmot Plasma 15) is just about as warm as the Solstice at half the weight. Actually, with the addition of a vapour barrier I would say it is warmer than the Solstice (without a vapour barrier). It is a cleverer design all round.

The Plasma 15, what a fantastic bag it is.
Campsaver currently have them on sale for US$543 (A$745), expensive but definitely a -9C bag and weighing under 900g.

I have just bought an Exped extra long comfort 800 rated to minus 9. It is 840 goose down loft . It is rather cosy ! .It weighs less than 1.5 kg easily.
It cost me $660.00
It is quite versatile , not just a snow SB.