Bushwalk Australia

Just bought one of these (new Waterproof Breathable concept and technology, first released to market this month).

I normally like to wait for new technologies to be tested in the market and issues with them exposed or corrected but this is just too interesting to not try out in the Western Arthurs in a few months.

Many initial reviews on the web e.g. http://www.gearinstitute.com/gear-news/industry-news/item/outdry-extreme-columbia, not really detailed or long-term reviews as yet (one I found claimed to have given a hard six months of testing).

Even if breathability is not as great as some others in the lab (though they claim it is), if it can be preserved better in real world conditions and after hours of rain (i.e. actually reasonably durable) I'll take it. It is meant to be air-permeable like eVent - which I have found better performing than gore-tex.

Anyone out there heard anything (good or bad) about this stuff?

ahhh yes, man stays dry working hard in humid conditions wearing jacket made from miracle fabric...

I'm always very cynical about these kind of reviews, unless the jacket has an airconditioning unit tucked away inside it.

But not wetting out is a feature I'd purchase it for, so I reckon you might well be happy with it - but I wouldn't expect to stay dry in it unless you're standing still.

slparker wrote: - but I wouldn't expect to stay dry in it unless you're standing still.

No, I wouldn't expect that either. Can be hard sifting through the current stuff online which is about 80% marketing schlock. Be good when backpackinglight and some independent reviewers get hold of some ofthese.

Perhaps a more balanced assessment at this stage:

http://andrewskurka.com/2015/speculative-thoughts-on-new-gtx-active-outdry-extreme/

All speculative. Wait and see.


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Ah well, figured there wasn't much experience with this stuff out there. I'm happy to take the risk on this one for once and see how it works out in practice - may well be the first in Australia to try it

Let us know. Have fun on the cutting edge!


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ideally you'll have a garment that has the equivalent of a good quality DWR finish that keeps working without having to keep treating the garment with extra chemicals.
Ive lived in rainshells for a significant amount of my decades in the bush.
the best way to ventilate rainshells is with physical vents, vented pockets or pit zips, this trumps all permeable membranes. any cheap rainshell with poor moisture permeability will be far superior to the most moisture permeable waterproof shells in its ability to remove moisture from inside the jacket

If the reviews can be believed the outer on this jacket is tough. That + permanency of DWR might make this jacket an interesting prospect.

Of course nothing will prevent condensation buildup when working hard, and if it is hosing down nothing can 'breathe' through water running over a jacket, but it's ability to shift moisture in drizzle or when on a break will be interesting to know.

moisture can only move from the inside to the outside of a waterproof membrane when the outside humidity is lower than the inside humidity, if its raining and 90% humidity, very little moisture can get absorbed by the outside air, at nearer 10% humidity, none can

wayno wrote:moisture can only move from the inside to the outside of a waterproof membrane when the outside humidity is lower than the inside humidity, if its raining and 90% humidity, very little moisture can get absorbed by the outside air, at nearer 10% humidity, none can

Spot on wayno

In reality the only time I wear a waterproof layer is when it's raining and I suspect this is the case for a lot of people. Breathability is a bit of a nonsense with your basic physics applied wayno.

Outdry is not new, but this version of it (suitable for rain wear) is.

I bought Columbia Outdry trail running shoes about 2 years ago, and they have been fantastic.

Much better than Goretex lined shoes for keeping feet cool. Have always kept my feet dry too.

I'll be interested to see your thoughts once tested, hopefully as good as the hype.

Giddy_up wrote:

wayno wrote:moisture can only move from the inside to the outside of a waterproof membrane when the outside humidity is lower than the inside humidity, if its raining and 90% humidity, very little moisture can get absorbed by the outside air, at nearer 10% humidity, none can

Spot on wayno

In reality the only time I wear a waterproof layer is when it's raining and I suspect this is the case for a lot of people. Breathability is a bit of a nonsense with your basic physics applied wayno.

Well true in large part, but not entirely.

As context for raingear I’ve progressed from the oilskin type cotton (not because Gore-tex wasn’t around, but because I was cheap ), to Gore-tex and then to eVent and each has been a clear improvement on the last. Not that I had any major problems with any of these (you make do with how they work) but eVent has been significantly more comfortable to live with than Gore-tex which has been significantly more comfortable than oilskin.

The humidity gradient thing mentioned is complicated by the air inside the jacket being warmed (and also able to hold more moisture) and usually when conditions are rainy in the mountains there is good air flow, which speeds up the exchange considerably – even for the two step moisture transfer of non air-permeable membranes (e.g. older gore-tex). Whilst true in good rain no material is likely breathing too much, sustained constant rain is not that common – more often dealing with showers coming and going. It is the periods between the showers you want the breathability to really work - which it will for most breathable fabrics well enough provided the face material isn't wet out (in which case you need to dry out first). I doubt most people take their jackets off between the rain showers unless they are very occasional or it is warm (I now just use a windshirt in heavy rain in the tropics – you get wet but stops the heavy flow of water over the skin which can chill you even in the tropics). Lastly, most people use their rain jackets as a type of windshirt (why carry an extra windshell when you need a rainjacket anyway?) and in this situation the breathability capacity is much more of a feature.

Got to agree with Wayno on the mechanical ventilation thing making a big (maybe bigger) difference – I think why my experimental siliconized rain shorts work so well is there is plenty of air exchange around the legs with each step so I don’t really suffer from the non-breathability of the material. I am glad this new jacket has pit-zips. The material is also supposedly air-permeable (like eVent) – if accurate this also means the humidity differential is not so important to letting the ‘sweat get out’.

Anyway, not really meaning to debate the effectiveness of raingear – we all use it and I think we all know (and have experienced) its real world limitations. Who exactly expects that any Bla-tex jacket can keep you completely dry when it is pretty easy to wet out a T-shirt with sweat heading up a hill on a fine day? Not expecting a miracle here – rather just hoping for a slightly better mousetrap with this stuff (like eVent was to Gore-tex). Happy to take the risk on the relatively untested technology to find out as the theory sounds more compelling than most before it. I have been very happy with eVent’s when the DWR is still working well (to be fair it holds up pretty well with regular retreatment with Grangers). If this Outdry stuff works out to be a bit less breathable than eVent (but still air-permeable) but the water repellency is more durable and consistent over the course of a week in the hills I will be happy.

temperature makes a big difference, in cooler temps, you don't dry out once you're wet, the face fabric doesnt dry out unless there is a decent amount of wind, so the fabric never breathes in those conditions, if its warm then that makes a massive difference in being able to dry out.

Yes, it's all about having a gradient and the physics around it. No magic there.

I've had this jacket a couple of weeks now but no real world testing as yet.

Initial impressions:

- Construction quality appears excellent - all looks very neat, strong and waterproof.
- It doesn't appear to be anywhere near as air-permeable as eVent - based on the very simple test of trying to suck air through it with my mouth.
- Sizing is plenty long enough for me on the arms and droptail in XL (I am 6'4"). Fit is a bit baggy but not unacceptably so - pretty standard for most brands in XL unfortunately.
- I have the lowest feature model, which suits me (don't need many features and would rather have the weight savings). In size XL it weighs on my scales at 378grams. I find that pretty impressive.
- The material itself feels heavy and very heavy duty - looks and feels much like a light PVC drybag material. Gives the appearance of being super watertight. I'd back this stuff to be good for a diving drysuit to 40metres!.
- Hood is not helmet compatible which is good (just a gimmick mostly - what proportion of buyers actually ever wear their shells over a helmet?). Fit and sculpting of the hood seems pretty good (will only know in real world conditions in a good wind. The adjustment toggles for cinching in the hood are weird however- a bit like a cleat. I guess they are less likely to fail but I think I prefer standard spring loaded stops. And there is nothing to secure the rolled up hood when not in use (it may flap about - will see if it tucks in ok).
- It has pitzips - they are large and well placed.
- Zippers are a tad sticky - but I have found this with all waterproof type zippers.

Sitting around home in this thing for half an hour and hard to tell if it is any different to other shells I have. Certainly gets a bit hot to wear - but here it is a nice cool early Autumn day up here - so about 30c and 70% humidity . Even my windshirt is hot to wear! No noticeable sweat build up / moisture inside the shell however.

The test of this thing will be in bush under multiple days of constant rain. I can't see it will perform any better than - say - eVent in dry conditions (E.g. skiing). My hope from this shell is holding up to days of rain without wetting out (And therefore preserving some breathability) in Tassie etc. Something like eVent loses so much breathability when it does wet out that properly that this thing can't be any worse to those conditions. E.g. if something like eVent breathes at 3x when dry and 2x at first in the rain and 0.5x when wetted out, the hope is this shell breathes at 1.5x when dry but also 1.5x when really wet.

And here's a poor shot of it:

Forgot to update on this. Planned trips since the post have not eventuated due to both family and injury/condition.

However I did use the jacket in Japan at the end of the moonsoon conditions (quite warm and humid - even by my standards - and a bit wet).

Of this period the only proper bush walk was a 500m ascent in light rain. Conditions were very humid and warm (high 20s) and next to no breeze for most of the ascent due to thick forest. I deliberately kept the jacket on for the entire walk and carried a 48l Osprey Kestrel with the kid's raincoats, water, etc. Some basic questions answered:

- Does it breath: Yes - definitely
- Does it breath as well as eVent: I doubt it
- Does it breath well enough: I survived 500m straight up in 90%-100% humidity with temps in the high 20s. It does have good pit zips which I did open about a third to fully open - so they help
- Does the DWR wear off: Apparently not (it is not a coating but part of the jacket). Not sign of change over the two weeks and it got worn a lot (and we backpacked our gear from city to city). Despite being mostly urban we averaged 15km-25km walking per day. Over half the days were raining and every day I took my Kestrel pack for the family's stuff for the day.
- Does it get clammy?: Not really, it breathes well enough. I'd say it breathes better and feels less clammy than Gore-tex of 20 years ago did. But it does not seem air permeable like my eVent jacket (which I can feel a good breeze through) and doubt it breathes as well as this.
- Does it wet out?: Never, seems impossible with the way this stuff has been manufactured.

To me this is a bombproof, reasonably breathable jacket. For a three week straight slog in SW Tassie I could think of not a better choice, as it is going to keep on performing and breathing and repelling water to the end. I reckon it would hold up to bushwacking pretty well too. For short and relatively gentle trips, some of the more breathable and more delicate options will give better comfort. Also, Gore-tex now has a material out similar in concept to this Columbia Outdry stuff, but much lighter and more delicate. It possibly breathes better as well.

Lastly, this thing looks and feels heavy, but it is lighter than it looks. My XL jacket is just under 380 grams. As comparison my Montane eVent jacket in XL is 560 grams (though there are lighter models).

Serious? Doesn't get clammy in 90-100% humidity in 20+ deg C condition? It has built-in aircon?

GPSGuided wrote:Serious? Doesn't get clammy in 90-100% humidity in 20+ deg C condition? It has built-in aircon?

- yeah that is subjective to be fair. Sure, it got damp inside (I would have still been damp from sweat had I been shirtless on that walk) but the lining material did well enough to diffuse the moisture, and the breathability was enough that it didn't feel clammy. As mentioned, at a guess I reckon it works a bit better than second generation gore-tex from about 20 years ago but not quite as well as a number of the leading materials today (eVent being my benchmark).

I believe the big benefit with this stuff will be after a week of bush bashing in the rain, this shell will be working much like it did on day one, whereas I know my eVent jacket will need a good wash followed by a session with the Grangers' fluorocarbon spray to get its performance back.

Ok, I'll believe you this time.