Bushwalk Australia

Looking for some advice on a tent purchase.
I currently have an old olympus, weighing in at 4kg pack weight. I want to get back in to walking after a number of years break, and intend to do some solo walking so want something lighter - particularly as the knees aren't quite what they use to be.

I want something that is:

- suitable for most conditions in Tassie. Probably not a lot of winter snow walking, but something that would stand up to wind and a bit of snow when needed. This is Tassie afterf all!

- integral pitch or fly-first.

- fairly light

- Suit someone about 188cm tall (6'2").

I was looking online at the Scarp1. Much lighter than what I've got, appears to be quite spacious.
Are the solid inners completely solid, or do they have a mesh panel?

I had a look at the Macpac Microlight thats on sale at the moment, but the one I saw pitched in store had quite a saggy inner and at my height would have been right in my face when laying down.

What other options would you suggest?

hat is the budget and are you ok with single skin tents..
If no budget and ok with single skins, look at some of the Zpacks DCF models.. very light and strong enough..

The new Notch LI from Tarptent also looks amazing..

Then there is also the typical MSR Hubba, Big Agnes Copper Spur, Nemo options..

All depends on budget and how light you would like to go..

Scarp is great for Tassie, but make sure you get it with the crossing poles and get or make a Tyvek groundsheet.

There's a small mesh panel in each door. Reduces temp a bit, but also helps with ventilation.

I bought a Scarp 1 for Tasmania and hoped I could modify it for use in the snow here in California.

The "solid" inner has four mesh panels, one on each door and one on each wall next to the doors. Too much ventilation for winter, not enough for summer. The fly does not reach the ground and the top is flattish, so not the best choice if there will be significant snow fall (unless you add the crossing poles). When I saw it in person I realized I wasn't going to be able to easily make it into a winter tent.

It's very roomy, more than you really need for one person. But the vestibules are small. I usually cook in the vestibule but not with this tent. And the inner drapes pretty low. I found that unless I was lying down it was nearly always touching my head (I'm 182cm). Ironically, when it rained the inner and outer roof on my Scarp 1 were usually stuck together.

Many people love the Scarp 1. I think it's kind of a funky tent with a lot of weird design issues. I plan to sell mine at a low price.

The only other tent I looked at was the Akto. Bomber construction, true four season, and about the same weight as the Scarp 1 -- but in person it seemed a bit small for me and my gear.

One way to open up other possibilities is to relax your requirement for integral pitching. As long as the tent sets up fast it's not that critical. Even with integral pitched tents there's often some mopping up to do when it's raining a lot.

There are plenty of photos and reports of the Scarp used in and under snow.
One could start by looking at the TT Gallery and then read the comments there.
http://www.tarptent.com/gallery.html
Just to address another point, you can very easily increase the cooking space by undoing one or two clips of the inner and peg the floor back.
Something like this :

(you can also un-hook all of the inner if you like...)
BTW, that is the old fly, the one since 2010 looks like this :

Franco, I know the Scarp 1 is a decent tent and can be used in snow. But it isn't really a winter tent. Even the instruction manual makes this clear.

Tarptent Instruction Manual wrote:The Scarp 1 is strong but not intended for areas with extreme snowfall, especially heavy, wet snowfall which readily sticks to the canopy instead of sloughing off. The angle of the flat part of the canopy is relatively shallow and you will want to reach up and punch the underside of the interior, as often as necessary, to prevent snow from accumulating on the canopy.

Mine kept me dry and kept out the bugs. It was interesting looking enough to garner comments from other bushwalkers who saw it. Even the grey color, which I initially worried would be so dismal, turned out to be okay. It has a green tint to it that I actually liked.



My issues with it were many, most of them minor, but in aggregate enough to sour me on the tent. For the same money I could have had a tent that performed as well or better and weighed 1/3 less.

warnabrother wrote:hat is the budget and are you ok with single skin tents..
If no budget and ok with single skins, look at some of the Zpacks DCF models.. very light and strong enough..

The new Notch LI from Tarptent also looks amazing..

Budget? Unfortunately, not a lot. As cheap as I can get while still being reliable and up to the task.
Yes the Notch looks good, but I don't use trekking poles. How good is it with the optional poles?

I haven't really considered single skin...

Your other suggestions look good too, but I believe with most of those the inner goes up first? With some of the conditions I've been in, either fly first or integral is something that I think has it's advantages. I've never put up tents with the hub-style poles - how easy and quick are they in comparison?

north-north-west wrote:Scarp is great for Tassie, but make sure you get it with the crossing poles and get or make a Tyvek groundsheet.

Thanks. How tough are the floors? The old Olympus models had an awesome floor, but hence were heavier. And with the investment in the tent, we'd still often use a groundsheet depending on where we were.

north-north-west wrote:There's a small mesh panel in each door. Reduces temp a bit, but also helps with ventilation.

Thank you! This is what I wanted to know. I want the solid inner for winter when needed, but wasn't sure from their site if it had any mesh. Like you said, a bit of mesh for ventilation is a good thing and that is what I was hoping for. I'm a warm sleeper anyway, so I don't think it will bother me from that point of view.

Orion wrote:The "solid" inner has four mesh panels, one on each door and one on each wall next to the doors. Too much ventilation for winter, not enough for summer.

Thanks for the mesh layout info. I sleep warm, so it might be ok in winter if the rest of my gear is up to par?

Orion wrote:The fly does not reach the ground and the top is flattish, so not the best choice if there will be significant snow fall (unless you add the crossing poles). When I saw it in person I realized I wasn't going to be able to easily make it into a winter tent.

I could be wrong, but I thought I'd seen a comment that on the newer ones the fly did reach the ground?

Orion wrote: And the inner drapes pretty low. I found that unless I was lying down it was nearly always touching my head (I'm 182cm). Ironically, when it rained the inner and outer roof on my Scarp 1 were usually stuck together.

Hmm, good to know. I'll have a bit more of an image search to try and get some more views of the inside when it is setup

Orion wrote:I think it's kind of a funky tent with a lot of weird design issues. I plan to sell mine at a low price.
The only other tent I looked at was the Akto.

How low?

The Akto looks alright. It's getting up a little more in price though. And 60mm less height in the centre is something to think about at me height if I'm stuck in bad weather for a couple of days.

Orion wrote:One way to open up other possibilities is to relax your requirement for integral pitching. As long as the tent sets up fast it's not that critical. Even with integral pitched tents there's often some mopping up to do when it's raining a lot.

I've never had to mop up in the Olympus, but I can see that it could happen. As well as the water issue, I see fly first/integral as having other advantages too. Having been on a walk where someone was verging on hypothermic at the end of a tough day, I can see advantages in getting up a shelter as quick and as dry as possible.

There's the Moment DW too - a bit lighter, a bit smaller. Don't know how it would go for head clearance at my length though?
It's a shame we can't view these in the flesh somewhere down here in Tassie!

For the same money I could have had a tent that performed as well or better and weighed 1/3 less.
Why not suggest that tent then ?

BTW, the Akto is about the same weight as the Scarp 1 with the external poles.
You don't need those poles if not winter camping.
With the poles users of both reported a better performance from the Scarp.
For example :


http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/20 ... inter.html

Brekel wrote:Your other suggestions look good too, but I believe with most of those the inner goes up first? With some of the conditions I've been in, either fly first or integral is something that I think has it's advantages. I've never put up tents with the hub-style poles - how easy and quick are they in comparison?

I can easily pitch my Hubba Hubba NX fly first.. you can do the same with the Hubba NX..

I went from a lighter tent to the Hubba Hubba as for me, the small weight penalty was worth the stronger materials.. we pitch the tent in offtrack areas sometimes, and the thin 15/10D floors where not liking it..
the 30D on the Hubba is still thin, but we always use a Tyvek footprint I made.

Franco wrote:There are plenty of photos and reports of the Scarp used in and under snow.
One could start by looking at the TT Gallery and then read the comments there.
http://www.tarptent.com/gallery.html
Just to address another point, you can very easily increase the cooking space by undoing one or two clips of the inner and peg the floor back.
Something like this...

Thanks Franco. That's something that appealed to me - the ability to trade vestibule space for inner space, depending on circumstances

I haven't looked through the TT gallery, but I've looked through your Photobucket gallery
Speaking of which, the person pictured sitting and laying in the mesh inner in these photos: how tall are they?

The sag doesn't look bad at all in these shots and it looks like there's face clearance when laying. I assume this is the norm when pitched, and not a special promo photo

Franco wrote:For the same money I could have had a tent that performed as well or better and weighed 1/3 less.
Why not suggest that tent then ?

BTW, the Akto is about the same weight as the Scarp 1 with the external poles.
You don't need those poles if not winter camping.
With the poles users of both reported a better performance from the Scarp.
For example :

Lightweight Winter-4.jpg

http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/20 ... inter.html

I have the Moment DW. Used it on the PCT and a few times in Tassle.
Likes - Fast set up. Reasonably light. Good ventilation. Plent of vestibule space. Double doors so campsite selection is fairly easy
Dislikes- feels like a coffin. Because of the stays at either end it has to be packed vertically in my pack (not a deal breaker)

I also have the Akto, used that on the AT. I think that maybe a bit low for you at either end
If you are near the East Coast I am happy to set up both tents for you to look at. Also a Zpacks Duplex, going to use this on the CDT. I am not selling them but if you want to check them out....
Taz.

Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk

There are a few user photos in this thread that show the interior of the Scarp with stuff inside it.
http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... 0&start=75
This is a video clip using the old fly . You can see the inner around the middle of the clip :

The sag doesn't look bad at all in these shots and it looks like there's face clearance when laying. I assume this is the norm when pitched, and not a special promo photo

That particular photo was to show how it can be set up as an alternative to the " mesh only" way some Americans like to do.
(in the US a tent is the bit we call inner, therefore they like setting up the "tent" like that)

If I did go down the Tarptent route, roughly what does it cost to get it to Australia?

Postage for one tent from the USA is about $60 USD.
That is insured with signature required at your end.

warnabrother wrote:I can easily pitch my Hubba Hubba NX fly first.. you can do the same with the Hubba NX...

I didnt realize
Do you need the optional footprint to do this?
At 91cm inner height, the hubba nx is a little lower. It may be ok, but I'd probably like to find a tent of a similar height to test for size.

Franco wrote:BTW, the Akto is about the same weight as the Scarp 1 with the external poles.

Really? The Tarptent is spec'd at 1.5kg, including stakes and stuff sack. So it would be about 1.8kg with the crossing poles. The Akto spec is 1.3kg without stakes or stuff sacks and approximately 1.5kg with those (based on my Nallo 3 accessory weights).

My scarp weighed in at 1.6kg, sealed, with stakes, zipper pulls, side guylines, and guyline extensions for the other six shorties. The crossing poles would have added close to 0.4kg to this weight because in addition to the poles I would have had to add back all of the pole-specific hardware that I removed.

Franco wrote:...you can very easily increase the cooking space by undoing one or two clips of the inner and peg the floor back.

You can increase the size of one of the vestibules by unclipping the floor or actually moving it along the webbing. Oddly there is nothing in the user manual about this; it's up to the Tarptent owner to figure it out. I finally did this with mine and was happy that I could finally fit my boots in the vestibule without turning them sideways. But it was still too tight a space to safely cook. I cooked inside most of the time since I had tons of unneeded space there. But cooking inside comes with certain risks (I burned a hole in the door). I've cooked inside tents many times before but don't like to do it as a matter of course.


Ceiling sag.
It's a fact of life with a tent like this. My Nallo 3 sags. But it's higher to begin with.
I measured the ceiling in my Scarp 1:

98 cm at apex (Tarptent spec is 99cm)
90 cm at 10cm distance from pole along center line
86 cm at apex next to either door
56 cm at center line 50cm from end of tent (about where your head would be)

When sitting upright I'm about 95 cm tall so my head always brushed the ceiling no matter where I sat, even when I didn't have my pad inflated. When lying down propped up on one elbow I'm about 65 cm tall, so my head brushed the ceiling in that (very common) position as well. It was only when fully lying down that I didn't contact it. You'd have to have a taller tent to fix that issue. Maybe that's a compromise that's acceptable for you. I got tired of it.

Franco wrote:For the same money I could have had a tent that performed as well or better and weighed 1/3 less.
Why not suggest that tent then ?

Because it doesn't match Brekel's criteria. But the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1 is what I was thinking of. I ran into someone doing the same trip as me but in reverse. He had that tent. He had much worse weather than me. My tent weighed 1.6kg and his 0.9kg. I think I chose the wrong tent for my trip.


There were a number of weird things about the Scarp 1. I really couldn't fathom the mitten hooks on the upper vents. Despite trying I could not replicate what was shown in the photo in the manual for how to "close" the vents. The function of the inside hooks remained a mystery to me; presumably they somehow keep the vents open.

Another oddity was the design of the inner pockets. They're open on one side. So I'd put something in the pocket and a little later it would be on the floor. I'd put it back in the pocket and then a little later... on the floor again. It was kind of funny. As long as I didn't bump the tent they worked.

Other things: no zipper pulls? No side guylines and only shorties for the other six? The inner door tie off is exactly that -- you tie a knot! It works most of the time but undoing can be a PITA, especially with gloves. All of those mitten hooks but they decided to save on a piece of plastic for the door tie-off?


I'm too critical by nature... Overall my Scarp 1 functioned well as a shelter. The abundance of floor space sure was a luxury. I was fond of it in many ways. But I'm going to replace it.

Brekel, I just checked the US Postal website and it looks like $60 USD is what it would cost me to ship you my 2017 vintage Scarp 1. I'll sell it to you for $200 USD + shipping, or $260 USD. That's $330 AUD.

I used it for 21 nights in Tasmania. It's been sealed twice on the outside and once on the inside and didn't leak in prolonged rain (although it looks like there is a small gap where the floor and webbing come together, probably due to thread tension). It has a few small (patched) holes on the inner tent. You can no longer add crossing poles without modification. A small amount of sand and dirt seem to be permanently stuck to the silicone I swabbed onto the floor to reduce slipperiness.

It includes an oversized stuff sack (4g heavier than the stock sack which I'll also send). Of all the tents I've ever bought only one has come with a comfortably sized stuff sack. All the others, this one included, came with sacks that seem to be designed for the store shelf, not for stuffing when it's windy and raining.

Hi Brekel,

If budget is an issue you could always take a look at Naturehike on ebay. They are cheap but not nasty. You wont get the mileage and they don't match the material or build quality of the other named brands like BA, TT, MSR, Nemo, Hillberg etc. Most people who have bought one seem happy. Just beware they are smaller, so if you're over about 5' 10", you wont fit.

Also weathering out a storm in a tent you feel confident in, I quite like for a while. I wouldn't have that same confidence in a Naturehike.

Anyway if don't have a lot of money and you're not tall, a Naturehike could get you back into bushwalking but you will almost certainly end up buying another tent later.

The TT tent I'll probably get next will be the Bowfin 1. No trekking pole and close to self standing (just 2 pegs). I'll wait for the Lithium version ($$) to be released and my Protrail to die first.

The Akto is lower - especially at the ends - than the Scarp, so can feel more cramped. Ir's stronger, more usable vestibule room, but doesn't breathe as well. For really exposed places where bad weather is likely, I use the Akto, otherwise I prefer the Scarp. But I'm a lot shorter than you.

@norts - thanks for the offer. I'll goveit some more thought, then if I'm over your way I'll let you know.

crollsurf wrote:The TT tent I'll probably get next will be the Bowfin 1. No trekking pole and close to self standing (just 2 pegs).

Yeah the Bowfin would be an option too.
At 6'2, from what you said the Naturehike may be a little small.

If I didnt worry about fly first/integral, what similar priced options woujld open up?
I've seen trhe BA copper spur mentioned a bit and it is nice and light. But I think it has a mesh inner? Could be a bit cold for winter?

Playing the devils advocate here but winter and snow are going to need a different tent to the other unimportant times of the year and the newer iterations of your old tent are now half the weight
https://www.macpac.com.au/equipment/ten ... -tent.html

So which is the priority here; bombproof winter Alpine or lightweight and every other season?
Everything on the market today is going to be UL in comparison to the PVC floored Olympus
Mind you I don't think the new Olympus is a better tent, just a lot lighter

Moondog55 wrote:Playing the devils advocate here...

So which is the priority here; bombproof winter Alpine or lightweight and every other season?

Hi Moondog.
The new Olympus is a bit lighter. Its normally a bit more expensive, but I just saw in your link it is on special for a decent price.

Really, I'm after something lighter. I don't intend to pitch on exposed mountaintops in the middle of winter in snowstorms, but I might do the odd winter trip and snow is always a possibility.

I've still got the old olympus, and if I'm heading out with someone else I can always take that.
Really I want a light solo tent, but if it can stand up to cold, wind and an occasional dusting of snow then that would be ideal. From what I've seen the Scarp1 seemed to be a nice compromise in that regard, but I'd be keen on knowing what else would be comparable

So I guess the question becomes:
Is there anything offering better performance than the Scarp1 for around the same price and weight?
Or something close to it in performance that is cheaper?

It may sound like I've already made my mind up but I haven't. It's just that looking around myself, this tent seems like a good compromise on most fronts and thus serves as a comparison point. So for anything else out there, what are the advantages/ disadvantages?

And do have a look at the Goondie 1 or the Wilderness Equipment Space series
John

Thanks John, I'll have a look

johnrs wrote:And do have a look at the Goondie 1 or the Wilderness Equipment Space series
John

Goondie pitches inner first, I believe.

I checked out a Space 1 at a local store.Just long enough, steep rise at the head end anda nice height so it doesn't feel claustrophobic at all, and plenty of width.
Pretty much the same price locally for the solid inner version as what the Scarp1 would be with freight once the dollar is converted.
It is outer first though, unless using footprint. But maybe worth considering.

Anyone have any experience with these?
What are the poles/hubs like to use and how do the hubs stand up to use?

I had a Scarp 1 for a while and found it to be quite a roomy tent for the larger bloke (I'm 6'2" and 100kg).....plenty of length/width for a LW mat and most of your kit and the 2 vestibules were a bonus as well for storage and cooking in bad weather. I bought the "solid inner" and had the crossing poles as well but never used them. Got rained, snowed and blowed-on quite a few times and it handled all that fine. I used mine mostly in the winter as I'm a deer hunter.......but I don't have it now.

I sold it for several reasons......initially the super-slippery silnylon floor was a right PITA unless the tent was pitched on a dead-flat surface. I have a few interesting nights sliding all over the place on my mat. Eventually I did the "lines of silicone" fix on the inside of the floor to stop this and that worked well-enough but the silicone attracted a fair bit of sand & grit and made keeping the tent floor harder to clean. As I like to store my tent inside my pack as opposed to trying it on the outside, I found the 4 corner prop-poles to be too long to allow me to put the rolled-up tent cross-ways inside my Macpac Cascade 90L pack. Yep......it could have been stored vertically in the pack and the rest of my kit packed around it.....but I prefer the tent down the bottom horizontally and this wasn't achievable in my pack with the Scarp 1. Apart from that I found it to be very weather proof once the seams were sealed properly, well made and certainly nice and light compared to a few of my older Macpac 4 season tents. Cheers

s358

Brekel wrote:I checked out a Space 1 at a local store.Just long enough, steep rise at the head end anda nice height so it doesn't feel claustrophobic at all, and plenty of width.
Pretty much the same price locally for the solid inner version as what the Scarp1 would be with freight once the dollar is converted.
It is outer first though, unless using footprint. But maybe worth considering.

Anyone have any experience with these?
What are the poles/hubs like to use and how do the hubs stand up to use?

any of the tents that pitch outer first using a footprint can be pitched outer first using a length of rope tied into a rectangle with loops in the corner.. works a treat