Bushwalk Australia

Back Country Cuisine meals appear to have approximately/roughly one third of the Recommended Daily Intake for the average person.

I know a lot of people that find the single serves to be not filling enough and instead opt for the double serve. So really what they're getting is two thirds of their RDI in one sitting, which isn't at all balanced. Especially considering every other snack and meal they'll have for the day.

It would therefore be better going for the single serve over the double in all reality. Even though different people and different circumstances require different intakes it would be better to balance your RDI over a greater period than just the end of the day. Because really your evening meal is the least important one of the day. Its doesn't have to power you, just recoup you from the days efforts. It would be more beneficial to bulk up the meal yourself or adjust what you eat for the rest of the day and focus on the high activity periods of the day. I guess I've answered my own question!

I would like to hear your thoughts if you've pondered about this or come to the same/similar conclusion.

RDI is probably meant for people doing "ordinary" things. If you are doing heavy exercise, you probably need more than that.

It's probably also relevant that a few days of unbalanced diet are not going to do you any long term harm, provided that your normal diet is good.

I try to make my evening meals three courses. First is usually soup, followed by main (which is rarely packaged dehyds) followed by dessert (dried fruit or whatever). If I am not very hungry, the leftover courses become emergency food.

I certainly need* to eat a lot more when I'm out walking than when I'm sitting around the office all day. I also need to eat more when walking up and down mountains in a blizzard all day than when walking in nice moderate weather on a more level track.

Do they give any indication if the "RDI" is the same as used for other non-bushwalking-related packaged meals? Ie, are they for people sitting around in an office doing nothing, people doing extreme physical exertion all day, or somewhere in between? Ie, how is RDI calculated?

*Need: Not only do I get much more hungry when bushwalking, but I have actually been caught out with very low blood sugars, unexpectedly, a couple of times (which was more of a problem when I didn't realise what the weird symptoms all added up to).

davidmorr wrote:RDI is probably meant for people doing "ordinary" things. If you are doing heavy exercise, you probably need more than that.

Therefore you have a bushwalkers RDI. Before my initial post I had been thinking about what you're getting at. The average persons RDI as opposed to a bushwalkers RDI. Quite obviously you need a greater energy and calorie intake if you're exerting yourself. But without any knowledge in dietetics I don't have a clue how the rest of the vitamins and minerals stack up. It stands to reason that some of these will need higher levels but I wouldn't have a clue what. On the other side; regardless of how much you're exerting yourself I would presume some of the recommended vitamin and mineral intakes would be exactly the same.

davidmorr wrote:It's probably also relevant that a few days of unbalanced diet are not going to do you any long term harm...

That is very true. Though if doing a 10+ day walk, it could heavily effect the amount of food that you're carrying.
To get the maximum use from your food and you need the right food, the right quantity and at the right time of day. Minimal extra, just what you need to maintain yourself for the prolonged duration.

Son of a Beach wrote:Do they give any indication if the "RDI" is the same as used for other non-bushwalking-related packaged meals? Ie, are they for people sitting around in an office doing nothing, people doing extreme physical exertion all day, or somewhere in between? Ie, how is RDI calculated?

On the back of the Back Country packets is states: "A complete meal, the dish you have chosen is nutritionally-balanced to meet the additional energy needs of outdoor adventurers." So it would appear they have a RDI adjusted for a adventurers/bushwalkers needs.
Energy 1684kj per serving x3 (presuming 1/3 RDI) gives us 5052kj.
Calories 401kcal x3 is 1203kcal.

After checking out a few online calculators, apparently I need 14000kj and 3000kcal a day for bushwalking. So, perhaps I should be taking double serves all day!
5052kj x2 = 10104kj.
1203kcal x2 = 2406kcal.

As I thought, there are some V&M that are unaffected by how much exercise you do. It appears that most of the V&M will not reach the maximum recommended RDI if a Back Country meal single serving was to be taken as 1/6 RDI. As David said its not going to matter if you're unbalanced for a couple of days anyway. As obviously your energy levels are going to be the most important aspect to look after.

Thanks for the input, its got me asking myself and google the right questions and I've found the answers I was after.

A few links for anyone wanting to read into this more or want to calculate their RDI:
http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/rdi- ... calculator
http://www.kellogg.com.au/Home/Nutritio ... fault.aspx
http://www.kellogg.com.au/controls/di%20calculator.htm
If you want to get real deep:
http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/pu ... nts/n6.pdf

It's a good point, Steve, that requirements for some nutrients ought to be the same regardless of the physical activity. I would expect carbohydrates and salt and maybe protein would be in higher demand, but most other items might not change much, if at all.

I'm no nutritionist either, just guessing.

Dehyd meals always have too much sauce IMO, so I usually add extra carbs to single serves, and that usually sorts me out. sometimes I do a double with extra carbs if I know I'm going to be seriously hungry.

Gotta leave room for the Whitakers coconut chocolate though..

During my workout in the gym, I've entered my weight with a backpack and set it up to a random up and down simulation of a bushwalk in the rather uneven track like some in Blue Mountains. It showed the average Kcalories per our in a vicinity of 600. On average during bushwalking we would spent around 8 hrs of actually walking plus 1-1.5 resting per day. It means that I would spend around 5000 big calories. The back country parcel for a single serve indicates something like 400 big calories, so theoretically I would need 15 packs. In reality I eat 3x2 = 6 packs a day plus some energy bars drinking water with added "Electrolyte" tablets.
When I weigh myself before and after the 2 -3 days walk the drop in weight is usually 2-3 kilo.

I always laugh when I see the portion size on Deb, Feeds 4 LOL, I have eaten a full packet on more than one cold walk. Weather and activity dependant my needs are probably between 3700 and 4500 calories per day, although as I have alluded to on more than one occasion I can afford to take the extra calories from body fat when what I eat isn't enough.
The small portion size is probably why I never use prepared packet foods as complete meals, and I haven't bought freeze dried in about 20 years. Mainly because I find them totally unsatisfying not to mention tasting very ordinary. If how-ever FD strawberries were cheaper I'd pack those happily

It's just rocket science, really (ie pretty simple :)

Mineral, vitamin and trace element content are really irrelevant over the length of a 'normal' bushwalk (I'm not talking about a 45-day AAWT). Protein and carbohydrate amounts are more important - not actual amounts but simply that you eat enough not to be too hungry.

How much is that? If you don't lose weight on a walk, you have it about right. Lose any more than 2kg or so and you aren't eating enough. Obviously it will vary a little depending on degree of difficulty and weather.

For me, after many trips where I've scrupulously calculated energy and content values from Aust Food Composition Tables and measured weight before and after, around 14,000kJ per day is about right - which is about 800g of dehy food per day (I do my own - tastes better, costs less, I know what's in it).

Moondog55 wrote:I always laugh when I see the portion size on Deb,

Hey, Moondog55, did you know that the energy content (per 100g) of Deb is one third that of pasta/couscous/rice? Means you have to carry 3 times the weight for the same energy. Couscous - yummm :)

G'day Moondog 55,
If you think Deb is good you really must try Tasmanian made Edgell brand instant spud I believe this is the one KFC uses and unlike Deb you only need to add water ,not a lot of kj 's but nice and filling
corvus

bernieq wrote:

Moondog55 wrote:I always laugh when I see the portion size on Deb,

Hey, Moondog55, did you know that the energy content (per 100g) of Deb is one third that of pasta/couscous/rice? Means you have to carry 3 times the weight for the same energy. Couscous - yummm

I also like Couscous however unlike instant spud it is very bland in taste and whilst I could eat a full packet of Instant spud with no extras I doubt I could eat a 100g(b4 cooking) serving of Couscous unless I had some added flavouring with it
corvus

bernieq wrote:about 800g of dehy food per day (I do my own - tastes better, costs less, I know what's in it).

Is that 800g dry or reconstituted? If dry, that seems a lot. If wet, it's about 2.5 the average of Backcountry meals.

I agree with whoever it was that suggested that loading most of the calories into the last meal of the day might not be the best idea. In any case, I have tried double serves and find it too much tucker at once. My preferred option is to have a reasonable breakfast lunch and dinner and graze nuts etc in-between to keep the fires burning.

I do add extra rice and/or spuds to dehy meals to give them a little boost though. The rice or spud packs are 5 serves at 558-588 kJ which adds about 1/3 to the base meal.

Deb has a nice energy release "Rush" so good at the end of the day if tired/energy depleted. I agree tho, pasta and rice last longer/ metabolise more slowly, as do peas, lentils and beans how-ever calorie per gram is equal "dry weight"
All carbohydrates have (dry weight) 4 Calories per gram near enough for calculating energy requirements, some people get confused when using the packet information as the Australian nutritional information box is always "As served" so can have lots of water in the finished weight serving size/ 100 gram standard comparison.

photohiker wrote:Is that 800g dry or reconstituted? If dry, that seems a lot.

Photohiker, that's dry. I eat more than anyone I know :)

Since I'm about to embark on a 9=day trip, I can give a full breakdown (per day) :
Breaky 165g : cereal 90, powdered milk 30, dehy fruit 25, coffee 20
Lunch 200g : vitawheat bikkies 80, vegemite 20, peanut butter 40, dehy paste (eg homus) 30, cheese 30
Dinner 260g : dehy soup 40, dehy meal (eg Chicken red curry 120 + couscous mix 100)
Extras 75g : chocolate, extra soup mix, occasional pudding
Scroggin 100g

corvus wrote:I also like Couscous however unlike instant spud it is very bland in taste

Certainly, Corvus, couscous by itself is a bit desperate - my mixes vary but usually contain various combinations of stuff like pinenuts, black pepper, lime juice, sultanas, nutmeg, dehy apricot.

I have been doing some calculations for my next extended stay.

being old I tend to work in Calories rather than killerjoules.

Protein needs are approximately 1 gram per kilogram lean body mass
Protein needs are approximately 80 to 90 grams per day
Protein then should supply about 350 to 400 Calories per day
So food needs 1600 Calories from starches and sugars
1600/4 equals 400 grams of carbohydrates
Rice / pasta / instant potato/sugar 100 gram per meal
One tin of protein ( tuna.spam etc. ) per meal approximately 25 grams of protein


Ration quantities
Carbs and proteins 2000 Calories per day so 2000/4 equals 500 grams of starch and protein
Fats and oils 1000 Calories per day so 1000/8 equals 125 grams of fats and oils per day

This isn't enough food to sustain high productive output in winter however; I'll be using body fat to supply the missing energy needs and actually hoping to loose a few kilos