Entry level GPS Watch options
Sat 11 Apr, 2015 11:14 pm
Hi guys I was thinking of getting a GPS watch for hiking light , mostly to serve as backup for old school compass/map orienteering. In that regard I don't need sports functions or continual advanced GPS options. More just the ability to use it to check my position if I make a booboo, and maybe put a basic track together. My main prerequisite would be battery life, and on that note wondered if its possible to reduce these watches output/GPS functions to extend the battery life as long as possible? To a few days?? Not sure if this is possible, I have only just started looking into GPS technology as you can telll 
Thanks for any suggestions!
Thanks for any suggestions!
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Sun 12 Apr, 2015 1:05 am
Most of the budget GPS watches are designed to track training and not really as navigation aids. There are some really cheap ones (like the Aldi Crane GPS that was under $100 on sale - from memory it was around $70) .
If you don't intend on using the watch to log your bushwalks (leaving the tracking constantly on, so it records a breadcrumb trail of your walk), then the battery life can be quite good. Most of them require the watch to be on a specialised USB cable and cannot be worn when charged, and the cheaper ones won't record GPS while they are being charged. But the worst case if you are using it away from a power plug is that you can bring a portable USB battery pack, and charge it up that way. The internal batteries are fairly small, so even a 5000mAh external battery pack would last a few recharges.
I looked at the Aldi one a few years ago, and remember that even though the specs said 16 hours or so with tracking on, someone on another forums said theirs lasted 24 hours or so. But the battery life will diminish as the watch gets older, and the inbuilt lithium battery is usually not user replaceable. Compare this with an old Garmin handheld GPS I have had for almost 10 years. I can just replace the AA batteries it takes and it still works. If it was a built in rechargeble lithium battery, I'd say I would have to find a replacement for it now.
Some of the other issue with these cheaper GPS watches are not specifically made for hiking are:
* There maybe no input for GPS coordinates on the fly. So you have to preload the waypoints via PC. You can usually still mark points on the watch, but you might be limited in the way you can name those waypoints.
* The memory for number of waypoints log might be limited.
* There may be no way to change the datum on board, so it comes down to you to manually calculate the long/lat location into a format that you can check on your paper maps.
* There are no detailed mapping on the very budget ones. You might get a small representation of your location and saved waypoints.
Have a look at DCRainmaker's great blog http://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-reviews He does good reviews on various GPS watches (with a training focus).
The more expensive GPS watches, like the various Garmins have more features that would be suitable for bushwalking/navigation. The upcoming Epix has a nice looking touch screen and ability to have full topo maps on board, but even the Fenix/Tactix/Aquatix models could get a basic map on screen. However, they are not exactly "budget" GPS watches.
If you want to do more than that in a wrist mounted GPS device, have a look at the older Garmin Foretrex series. They don't have the training aspects of the budget GPS watches, but may do what you want it to do. Runs from AAA batteries, but also does not have the ability to add on maps.
An alternative for you is to buy a basic trail GPS like the Etrex 10 which has been about $90 on sale. These run on disposable or rechargeable AA batteries, and a few people on the forums have them. A step up to something like the Etrex 20 adds the ability to add maps to the device. The Etrex is nice and light - my Etrex 20 weighs around 100grams, plus the batteries (this can vary depending on the type of batteries used - 2xNiMH AAs are about 50 grams; 2xLithium AAs are about 30grams)
If you don't intend on using the watch to log your bushwalks (leaving the tracking constantly on, so it records a breadcrumb trail of your walk), then the battery life can be quite good. Most of them require the watch to be on a specialised USB cable and cannot be worn when charged, and the cheaper ones won't record GPS while they are being charged. But the worst case if you are using it away from a power plug is that you can bring a portable USB battery pack, and charge it up that way. The internal batteries are fairly small, so even a 5000mAh external battery pack would last a few recharges.
I looked at the Aldi one a few years ago, and remember that even though the specs said 16 hours or so with tracking on, someone on another forums said theirs lasted 24 hours or so. But the battery life will diminish as the watch gets older, and the inbuilt lithium battery is usually not user replaceable. Compare this with an old Garmin handheld GPS I have had for almost 10 years. I can just replace the AA batteries it takes and it still works. If it was a built in rechargeble lithium battery, I'd say I would have to find a replacement for it now.
Some of the other issue with these cheaper GPS watches are not specifically made for hiking are:
* There maybe no input for GPS coordinates on the fly. So you have to preload the waypoints via PC. You can usually still mark points on the watch, but you might be limited in the way you can name those waypoints.
* The memory for number of waypoints log might be limited.
* There may be no way to change the datum on board, so it comes down to you to manually calculate the long/lat location into a format that you can check on your paper maps.
* There are no detailed mapping on the very budget ones. You might get a small representation of your location and saved waypoints.
Have a look at DCRainmaker's great blog http://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-reviews He does good reviews on various GPS watches (with a training focus).
The more expensive GPS watches, like the various Garmins have more features that would be suitable for bushwalking/navigation. The upcoming Epix has a nice looking touch screen and ability to have full topo maps on board, but even the Fenix/Tactix/Aquatix models could get a basic map on screen. However, they are not exactly "budget" GPS watches.
If you want to do more than that in a wrist mounted GPS device, have a look at the older Garmin Foretrex series. They don't have the training aspects of the budget GPS watches, but may do what you want it to do. Runs from AAA batteries, but also does not have the ability to add on maps.
An alternative for you is to buy a basic trail GPS like the Etrex 10 which has been about $90 on sale. These run on disposable or rechargeable AA batteries, and a few people on the forums have them. A step up to something like the Etrex 20 adds the ability to add maps to the device. The Etrex is nice and light - my Etrex 20 weighs around 100grams, plus the batteries (this can vary depending on the type of batteries used - 2xNiMH AAs are about 50 grams; 2xLithium AAs are about 30grams)
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Mon 13 Apr, 2015 11:42 pm
Thanks I don't mind paying the money, by entry level I thought there may be a GPS dedicated watch rather than the sports inclusive models. However it seems anything with a decent GPS will be the same thing.
I was hoping these watches would be a simple ultralight option to a handheld GPS but the requirement to operate the system for days on end remotely is critical for me, so from what I am reading that's going to be handheld GPS with spare batts carried.
I was hoping these watches would be a simple ultralight option to a handheld GPS but the requirement to operate the system for days on end remotely is critical for me, so from what I am reading that's going to be handheld GPS with spare batts carried.
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Tue 14 Apr, 2015 5:23 am
Ok, I read Entry Level as being a budget model. If you want something that will fit on your wrist, the upcoming Garmin Epix does look good. The Fenix 3 also does limited mapping (you can get topo maps on board unofficially but the limit is the memory on board). Both these would be ok for bush navigation as a supplement to maps and compass.
Although, as a caution, from my experience Garmin tends to have issues with the software for early adopters. There are usually many issues that get ironed out with later software releases. If you read up on peoples current experiences with the Fenix 3, there are a some software issues that need to be resolved.
Battery life can be mitigated by carrying a USB battery pack. The battery life on the Fenix 3 is quite reasonable, and can be extended in a long life mode where it only connects to and logs GPS less frequently.
I mentioned the Foretrex series earlier as well - if you want something on the wrist. I had the original 101 bought second hand - these units gained popularity with some troops in the various middle east conflicts as a backup for the compass. My foretrex is at least 8 years old, and the issues were that it was pretty basic in the info provided as well as using a Serial connector for PC connection. Battery life was around 15 hours in normal mode (battery save mode was around 20 hours). You can get the latest Foretrex 401 still I believe, but it is still a non-mapping GPS. For the same money you can get a good map enabled GPS.
You still have to carry spare AAs if you go with handheld GPS devices. My Etrex 30 does I think 18 hours or so on NiMH batteries. My Oregon 600 does around 10 hours. There was a previous post about someone using lithium primary cells in their Etrex, and they will last longer (and weigh less) but are more expensive and non-rechargeable.
There's a couple of other threads on GPS here, like this recent one: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=18850
To be fair to the sports focused GPS watches, even the budget ones, you can probably still use them for navigation, to provide a geographic coordinate that you can still use in conjuction with paper maps. It's just that with a handheld GPS you add more features but sacrifice the compact form factor of a watch.
In lieu of getting a GPS watch, I've use my Etrex 30 paired with an ANT+ heart rate monitor and use it to track runs or when I'm on the bike.
Although, as a caution, from my experience Garmin tends to have issues with the software for early adopters. There are usually many issues that get ironed out with later software releases. If you read up on peoples current experiences with the Fenix 3, there are a some software issues that need to be resolved.
Battery life can be mitigated by carrying a USB battery pack. The battery life on the Fenix 3 is quite reasonable, and can be extended in a long life mode where it only connects to and logs GPS less frequently.
I mentioned the Foretrex series earlier as well - if you want something on the wrist. I had the original 101 bought second hand - these units gained popularity with some troops in the various middle east conflicts as a backup for the compass. My foretrex is at least 8 years old, and the issues were that it was pretty basic in the info provided as well as using a Serial connector for PC connection. Battery life was around 15 hours in normal mode (battery save mode was around 20 hours). You can get the latest Foretrex 401 still I believe, but it is still a non-mapping GPS. For the same money you can get a good map enabled GPS.
You still have to carry spare AAs if you go with handheld GPS devices. My Etrex 30 does I think 18 hours or so on NiMH batteries. My Oregon 600 does around 10 hours. There was a previous post about someone using lithium primary cells in their Etrex, and they will last longer (and weigh less) but are more expensive and non-rechargeable.
There's a couple of other threads on GPS here, like this recent one: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=18850
To be fair to the sports focused GPS watches, even the budget ones, you can probably still use them for navigation, to provide a geographic coordinate that you can still use in conjuction with paper maps. It's just that with a handheld GPS you add more features but sacrifice the compact form factor of a watch.
In lieu of getting a GPS watch, I've use my Etrex 30 paired with an ANT+ heart rate monitor and use it to track runs or when I'm on the bike.
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Sat 02 May, 2015 1:37 pm
I recently got myself a Suunto Ambit3 - primarily for cycling, but I also wanted to use it for bushwalking. From reviews I read, the Suunto Ambit3, the Garmin Fenix and the Polar 800 are all roughly peers, although they may have or not have specific features that appeal to invidual users. The DCRainmaker website has some very thorough reviews of all these devices.
It got a good workout on a 7 day walk over Easter.
Cutting the GPS recording interval from 1 second to 5 seconds extends the battery life from 8h to 15h. Cutting it to 60 seconds extends the battery life to 100h. Note that 100h would be 12 days @ 8h of walking per day. If you choose, you can turn the breadcrumb trail off completely, and just turn the GPS on when you need a GPS fix. I adjusted the settings on mine to give me a 6 figure grid reference, rather than lat and long co-ordinates, which is more useful when using map-based navigation.
You can pre-load a .gpx route onto the watch, and I found this useful to confirm I was still on my intended route while bushbashing off trail through heavy regrowth. You can also preload waypoints such as campsites or water sources. Note that actively navigating a route brings the GPS interval back to 5s for increased accuracy, which can chew your battery life. I just turned the routing on when I needed specific confirmation - although I will admit to playing with my new "toy" more than I needed to on its first time out bush.
The quoted battery life figures seem realistic. I carry a 3200 mAh battery pack to recharge my phone anyway, so the only weight penalty was an extra USB cable - I tend to give my devices 10 minutes of charge at lunchtime or at night if they drop below 50%.
The limitations of a wrist-sized screen makes a watch impractical as your SOLE means of navigation. But as an adjunct to old-school navigation with a map (you sound like me in this regard), they are definitely a lightweight alternative. In heavy regrowth or a whiteout, even an experienced and skilled navigator can appreciate a GPS fix.
It got a good workout on a 7 day walk over Easter.
Cutting the GPS recording interval from 1 second to 5 seconds extends the battery life from 8h to 15h. Cutting it to 60 seconds extends the battery life to 100h. Note that 100h would be 12 days @ 8h of walking per day. If you choose, you can turn the breadcrumb trail off completely, and just turn the GPS on when you need a GPS fix. I adjusted the settings on mine to give me a 6 figure grid reference, rather than lat and long co-ordinates, which is more useful when using map-based navigation.
You can pre-load a .gpx route onto the watch, and I found this useful to confirm I was still on my intended route while bushbashing off trail through heavy regrowth. You can also preload waypoints such as campsites or water sources. Note that actively navigating a route brings the GPS interval back to 5s for increased accuracy, which can chew your battery life. I just turned the routing on when I needed specific confirmation - although I will admit to playing with my new "toy" more than I needed to on its first time out bush.
The quoted battery life figures seem realistic. I carry a 3200 mAh battery pack to recharge my phone anyway, so the only weight penalty was an extra USB cable - I tend to give my devices 10 minutes of charge at lunchtime or at night if they drop below 50%.
The limitations of a wrist-sized screen makes a watch impractical as your SOLE means of navigation. But as an adjunct to old-school navigation with a map (you sound like me in this regard), they are definitely a lightweight alternative. In heavy regrowth or a whiteout, even an experienced and skilled navigator can appreciate a GPS fix.
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Sat 02 May, 2015 2:24 pm
As earlier, if the aim is navigation, then 'entry level' GPS watches are really not ideal as Keithy pointed out earlier. For those occasional checks, why not just pick up a basic Garmin eTrex handheld. Small, replaceable batteries and made for bush navigation.
Then going away from the budget word, the new Apple Watch is interesting with that MotionX-GPS app.
Then going away from the budget word, the new Apple Watch is interesting with that MotionX-GPS app.
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Sat 02 May, 2015 6:34 pm
I dragged my 10 year old etrex H out of the shed today......haven't had it in nine years. Worked a treat today on out first pack walk. I even dropped it in a stream, 20 sec later it bobbed up still working. A paper map and entry level GPS Is all we need I think.
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Wed 13 May, 2015 11:47 am
madmacca wrote: I adjusted the settings on mine to give me a 6 figure grid reference, rather than lat and long co-ordinates, which is more useful when using map-based navigation.
Thank you madmacca - that's what i was after; a sports GPS that gives a 6 figure grid reference. Something my garmin edge won't do...
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Wed 13 May, 2015 12:34 pm
slparker wrote:a sports GPS that gives a 6 figure grid reference. Something my garmin edge won't do...
Out of curiosity, what model Edge do you have? I was playing around with an Edge 500 a while back, toying with the idea of getting one for pushbike, but ended up using my Etrex 30 with ANT+ sensors for it instead.
For your Edge, is there not a setting under: Setup/Settings/Postion Format? IIRC the Edge 500 had lat/long, UTM, MGRS at least, and maybe some UK/US grid formats.
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Wed 13 May, 2015 1:27 pm
keithy wrote:slparker wrote:a sports GPS that gives a 6 figure grid reference. Something my garmin edge won't do...
Out of curiosity, what model Edge do you have? I was playing around with an Edge 500 a while back, toying with the idea of getting one for pushbike, but ended up using my Etrex 30 with ANT+ sensors for it instead.
For your Edge, is there not a setting under: Setup/Settings/Postion Format? IIRC the Edge 500 had lat/long, UTM, MGRS at least, and maybe some UK/US grid formats.
Edge 500, I had a look at the settings and can switch to MGRS; UTM UPS (whatever that is) and a bunch of formats for other countries; but irrespective of what I select (it is on MGRS at the moment) there is no way to select a coordinate position in the display settings... so whilst the GPS is set to MGRS I can't seem to get the device to spit out a number.
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Wed 13 May, 2015 1:58 pm
slparker wrote:Edge 500, I had a look at the settings and can switch to MGRS; UTM
If you want to use MGRS (Military Grid Reference System) leave it at that, UTM is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_ ... ate_system, which will also give you a grid reference.
On the 500, isn't the coordinates shown on the Satellite page? Here is a pic from DCrainmaker's blog showing the postion coordinates in the elevation correction page for example:
I also played with the 510, and that colour screen layout was similar to my Etrex 30. The position coordinates are shown on the Satellite page, as well as the Compass page, and when you click on a location on the screen, it pops up with the position details.
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Wed 13 May, 2015 2:25 pm
well... there ya go... I had never noticed that the 'satellite' function had a scrollthrough menu with co-ordinates on it!
after many internet searches of 'grid reference with Garmin edge 500' i have found out that you Can do it.... I now have a small, light, long -lasting- battery, weatherproof GPS that does what i want it to: give a grid to check my position on a topo map....
I take it that the six figure grid is the 'middle' three digits on the upper (eastings) and lower (northings)?
Anyway, you just saved me hundreds of dollars, i reckon, keith. Thank you for the info. Name your favourite charity and I'll give them some money.
after many internet searches of 'grid reference with Garmin edge 500' i have found out that you Can do it.... I now have a small, light, long -lasting- battery, weatherproof GPS that does what i want it to: give a grid to check my position on a topo map....
I take it that the six figure grid is the 'middle' three digits on the upper (eastings) and lower (northings)?
Anyway, you just saved me hundreds of dollars, i reckon, keith. Thank you for the info. Name your favourite charity and I'll give them some money.
Re: Entry level GPS Watch options
Wed 13 May, 2015 3:29 pm
slparker wrote:well... there ya go... I had never noticed that the 'satellite' function had a scrollthrough menu with co-ordinates on it!
after many internet searches of 'grid reference with Garmin edge 500' i have found out that you Can do it....
That's unfortunately typical of Garmin products. Some features are not even mentioned in the User Guides, but once you've used a few and played around with the settings, you tend to get an idea of where they put stuff. I'm still finding new features that I infrequently use on my Garmins....
Not quite. There's discussion on the grid ref formats here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14004slparker wrote:I take it that the six figure grid is the 'middle' three digits on the upper (eastings) and lower (northings)?
So if you are using MGRS, the first three digits on the top line, and the first three digits on the bottom line give you your six digit reference. If you use UTM UPS, then you skip the first digit of the first set, take the next three, and on the second set skip the first two digits and take the next three, and that gives you your six digit reference. But seriously bernieq explains it clearer than I can here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14004#p185151
slparker wrote:Anyway, you just saved me hundreds of dollars, i reckon, keith. Thank you for the info. Name your favourite charity and I'll give them some money.
Happy to help, but if you are so inclined, I made a donation to these guys the other week. http://www.sardogsnepal.asia/
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