Free maps - Contour Aus matched with Open Street Map (OSM)

[Son of a Beach]

Hi

There is as mentioned a clumsy workaround. Switch the phone off and then on and do not unlock the sim card. Not idea but then this is an Apple product that works great in tightly controlled parameters.

Cheers

The phone tranceiver still powers up. You can make emergency calls. It still searches for towers. Not a workaround unfortunately.

Testing by several people has shown that this can dramatically increase battery life in situations where cell-network is not required. I'm not sure exactly why this is, because as you say, it still has emergency capability. I think it's because there is no need for it to constantly try to find a cell to connect to for being available to receive calls at any time. It may be that it doesn't power up at all, until it comes time to actually place an emergency call, or that it powers up, but doesn't attempt to contact the cell anywhere near as much. But it does save battery a lot.

No, I can't see any change in this behaviour in iOS 6, unfortunately.

[Ent]

Hi

Would not mind to test this but a friends phone to compare against did not do well in the iPhone swimming event. It now suddenly goes flat.

Cheers

[Ent]

Hi

Well being playing with GPS-Tracks for the iPhone and like a log of apps it works best when connected to the Internet. Figured out how to download maps and also save maps you view but think I have struck a rather unfortunate design feature.

It appears to download the map data as a tile fixed at a scale rather than the vector data. This means when you zoom in or out unless you have downloaded that scale tile you get is a blank screen. It appears to have 10 scales so you can imagine the amount of duplicate data it needs to download.

Um? Think it is not for me as frequently you zoom in an out of a map and if you do not have all the scale levels loaded you will get rather jaded. Also the lowest scales are huge and would push even the iPhone 64gb memory. Not to mention your bandwidth.

Still have not found what I looking for in an iPhone OSM app.

Cheers

[photohiker]

Yes, this varying resolution tiles for different zoom levels is normal OSM map behaviour. The tiles are pretty small.

You might try MotionX. It uses OSM (looks like the CycleMap) and it has a map download feature where you can select an area, then the number of level of zooms required.

Here is a screenshot of the tile download interface (this is after I had selected an area on the map):

[Ent]

Hi Photohiker

I will give that app a look. Very much the same tile resolution and area size method GPS-Tracks uses.

As an idea in size at about four by four kilometres per iPhone screen covering a 160 km radius in Tassie (OSM rather scant) using the bike maps (they have contours) about 350 megabyte of data. This compares to Garmin (no contour lines) 3mb vector maps for Tassie.

It would make sense if an iPhone app could use Garmin's vector maps as you get the maximum level of detail and zoom capability for the smallest file size. Also split the contour data from OSM data as contours should not change but OSM is changing minute by minute.

In other words a Garmin on an iPhone.

Cheers

[photohiker]

As an idea in size at about four by four kilometres per iPhone screen covering a 160 km radius in Tassie (OSM rather scant) using the bike maps (they have contours) about 350 megabyte of data.

Sorry Ent, I'm not understanding your terminology. Is it 4km x 4km or 160km radius (320km diameter)? Are you talking about zoom level here?

The MotionX app has a light version (free, I think) that can download, but has limits on how much.

It would be interesting if someone came up with a vector mapping app for the iPhone. I guess it would then be proprietary data all over again. Beauty of the OSM route is that users have control of the data.

[sthughes]

Yeah MotionX is good.

One thing that bugs me with OSM is that the tracks disappears when you zoom in close. At least for user added tracks anyway.

Ent wrote:
As an idea in size at about four by four kilometres per iPhone screen covering a 160 km radius in Tassie (OSM rather scant) using the bike maps (they have contours) about 350 megabyte of data.


Sorry Ent, I'm not understanding your terminology. Is it 4km x 4km or 160km radius (320km diameter)? Are you talking about zoom level here?

Yep WT *$&# Ent? Speak ingrish man!

[photohiker]

One thing that bugs me with OSM is that the tracks disappears when you zoom in close. At least for user added tracks anyway.

Hmm. Not on any of my tracks. I can zoom into level 16 on MoionX and any track I have added to OSM is still there...

[Ent]

Hi

Ok English translation.

When using GPS-tracks you can download map tiles for off line use. Also it can be setup to save map tiles you view automatically. It has ten levels of scale. Similar to the three common ones used by Tasmaps, 1:250,000 1:100,000 and :1:25,000. Now I can not remember the scale that I was using but on the iPhone screen it was about four kilometres by four kilometres. So if I downloaded every tile at that scale within a 160KM radius (circle with a 320Km diameter) it estimated 350Mb of data needs to be downloaded.

Ok, lets assume that a tile is a jpg and has the same file size then the finer the scale the more tiles you will need. At the finest level of scale with an 8KM radius selected to down then from memory it estimated 1.6GB of data to download. Now unlike say Memorymap that zooms within a tile or joins tiles together (say 1:25,000) GPX-Tracks goes up to the next tile, it then find no tile there so displays a blank. It does not join tiles together to form a mosaic of tiles.

Ok given the above then tiles at a fine scale can require enormous space. Now, if I download just the OSM data, road, lakes and waterways for my Garmin GPS then the file is around 3MB and is routable. Might be five for the routable one. I will need to check this. Reason is the data is stored as vector not raster format. So, what we need is an iphone app that can use vector files as they are by far the most space efficient plus give full zoom ability down to a data point plotted.

Now Simon on tracks not showing up.

OSM caches data using the web browser so when you zoom in or out it might be using old cache data. With Firefox, Control + R, will force a refresh. It drove me up the wall until I dropped to this. Trouble is with Firefox mine gets trapped into a level so I shut it down and restart it and it works fine. Actually it appears to argue with this website if I have both open.

Hope this helps.

Cheers Brett

[sthughes]

Yeah tried refreshing etc. And sorry Photohiker when I say "user added" I mean added to the actual OSM map, not tracks I am overlaying.

For example this little section of the Reynolds Falls Track - (added by you Ent?) This same issue applies online on the PC or using MotionX and other iOS apps.

Zoomed out:

Capture.JPG (104.43 KiB) Viewed 26395 times

Zoomed in one level:

[Ent]

Hi

Cycle maps are a disaster with updates taking forever and need to flow through all levels. The Reynolds Fall track is my handy work and has been up for a few weeks. In fact was my first upload.

I would use on the vector maps for the Garmin ad they are only 24 hours behind edits.

Cheers

[sthughes]

Nice if you have them. Cyclemap is the only version with contours on iPhone as far as I know.

[photohiker]

I haven't checked all the history, but the last edit on that track was by Ent yesterday, July 6th. Give it a few days to filter through.

Here is one I prepared earlier



That's zoom level 18 (max)

[Ent]

Hi Photohiker

The edit was a simple describing the track as a foot rather than a vehicle one. The basic track has been up for at least two if not three weeks.

Cheers

[photohiker]

http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions ... encyclemap

I guess if you got a bunch of people to keep clicking it, you might be able to increase it's priority...

[Ent]

Looks like in Tassie we are going to be a long way behind. If I was not lazy I could probably calculate the number of tiles but something tells me it would be an almost impossibly large number.

O'well looks like best approach is to look for apps that support vector mapping.

Cheers

[photohiker]

Not really.

Just wait a while, and the renderings will filter through.

Best thing to do is to get the basics mapped, then fine tune later. That way, the tracks and peaks will be on the map regardless of the type of map you decide to use.

I actually use both: the vector on the Garmin, and the raster on the phone as backup.

[Ent]

Well madly being mapping away so now enough data up to do some playing. Can not say I am a fan at all of the crop of iPhone apps. To give you an idea why here is three very good reasons.

1. The tile system is not routable.

2. The total size of the of Tassie's routable vector file is 4mb in zipped form. In the tile format 1:25,000 is measured in hundreds of mb The vector file is zoomable to the recorded point level.

3. Update speed. In OSM standard format wait a few days at least. In the cycle format (has contour lines) wait weeks at least.

Now expletive Garmin 62s expletive does a brilliant job of processing the data but resist the temptation to use the 5m contour lines. Just way to messy on the screen. If I tell the expletive Garmin 62s expletive that I am a car it will use the track as a route and give you all the distance covered and to be covered. In walking mode it figures that I can rock climb and swim with a pack! In other words, straight line is drawn.

Cheers

[photohiker]

The raster tiles are not routeable, but the vector routeable system runs you off a cliff. Zero sum game.

Why on earth would you want routeable for bushwalking?

[Ent]

The raster tiles are not routeable, but the vector routeable system runs you off a cliff. Zero sum game.

Why on earth would you want routeable for bushwalking?

Runs you off a cliff?

Would would you not want them when they tell you distance to target and what distance you have covered?

Cheers

[photohiker]

The raster tiles are not routeable, but the vector routeable system runs you off a cliff. Zero sum game.

Why on earth would you want routeable for bushwalking?

Runs you off a cliff?

You said it:

In walking mode it figures that I can rock climb and swim with a pack! In other words, straight line is drawn.

So, not that useful, is it?

Would would you not want them when they tell you distance to target and what distance you have covered?

Mine (and yours) gives distance covered without routeable mapping. Distance to target I probably know if I've done my prep. Can't see the point of routeable for bushwalking really. Useful for street navigation though.

[Ent]

Um? Still do not get the run you off a cliff trick? Poor maps or reading will do that.

Distanced cover to distance to go is a remarkably common question I have found. Also extremely useful when party member is struggling (injury, etc) to work out what to do. By that find any possible camping spot or push on to a known spot.

Tracks in Tassie weave and doge around. I brought once the digital wheel counter that works on paper maps and found it painful to use. Now if you have a GPS plot you have the information you need. OSM allows you to convert this into a path. Now whack a flag at the start of the path and one at your target and bingo there is your distance. If you are lucky someone has already done the path. If not back to the old methods.

Lets take a real life example. Say you are planning a walk to Junction Lake. Now as the crow flies the distance is easily measured but is meaningless. Now using. OSM loaded into my expletive Garmin 62s expletive after much button pushing and figuring out I can create a route and then the actual track distance is given. Ok due to cutting corners is will be a little shorter depending on the quality of the plot. But say would be unlikely to be 10% out.

Now I have walked in snow, fog, driving rain, bushwalker alert and night conditions In these conditions it is often very hard to work out distance remaining. Now drag out the GPS and you will now know. Handy when deciding to push on or bail out.

Safe and successfully walking is assisted by knowledge. Why deprive yourself of this? Sure you do not must have it but handy to have.

In fact we have a trial run planned to test this out. Also organizing an on track/off track walk and using satellite photos to plan this. Also fluked a person familiar with the area. And will still have the old standbys, paper maps and compass You could say that we are covering as many bases as possible.

You will see me madly mapping my favourite area of Tassie. Thing I have noticed is this has done more to improve my knowledge of the area than anything else.

Cheers

[stepbystep]

Safe and successfully walking is assisted by knowledge. Why deprive yourself of this?

Couldn't agree more!

Knowledge is best kept in the brain however and not on an electronic device. It has been my experience that no matter what outlandish trip I have been planning there is a reasonable knowledge base compiled by trailblazers and they will happily give you beta on best campsites, water supplies, known pads/routes not to mention the terrain between. Therefore expected times combined with carefully studying the maps BEFORE you go(marking waypoints for important sites on GPS and map). If in virgin territory and If in doubt then it's always best to err on the side of caution.

The GPS is a great device but is capable of failure so why get obsessed with full rout-ability?

[Miyata610]

The GPS is a great device but is capable of failure so why get obsessed with full rout-ability?

Totally agree. I treat my gps (iphone) as a library of alternative maps in addition to my paper maps and a device to give me my location, but that's a function I very rarely need or use.

[photohiker]

Um? Still do not get the run you off a cliff trick? Poor maps or reading will do that.

As by your own statement will straight line routing. That was my point.

Lets take a real life example. Say you are planning a walk to Junction Lake. Now as the crow flies the distance is easily measured but is meaningless. Now using. OSM loaded into my expletive Garmin 62s expletive after much button pushing and figuring out I can create a route and then the actual track distance is given. Ok due to cutting corners is will be a little shorter depending on the quality of the plot. But say would be unlikely to be 10% out.

Very few in-GPS route making facilities are user friendly, I have not used the 62s but I would expect it to be about the same as any other. The one exception I have used is the UK SatMap.

In any case, If you want to be able to do routing for your walk, it is much easier to do it on your desktop computer and transfer it to your GPS. I don't bother with this, but I will often lay down a track and transfer that so that on the walk I can see how far I am off course or if I really did make the right choice at the last weird 3way junction.

Of course, routeable is possible if all the tracks and junctions are accurately published on OSM. Keep up the good work!

Personally, if I want to know how far it is to the next camp/whatever (and I almost never do) I'll just take a guesstimate off the map. Knowing how far it is doesn't change the journey...

[Ent]

Hi Photohiker

With OSM assuming that the data is valid then you can route using the track same as a road. With the Garmin 62s it needs to be in automotive mode to work. No great hassle once you realise this.

Ease of use is "easy" once you figure out the ability to mark waypoints away from your current location. Drop one at the start and one at the end on the track and use the route menu and bingo you have a running tally.

Having helped in real life rescue it would have been handy to have a idea of distance to go as day light was running out and water was hard to find. Also letting some people know the distance can offset a panic attack.

As I have written it is a tool. Up to people to use it or not. Never understood people rubbishing others for using a tool. But such are some people. In the rescue we could give the exact co-ordinates so the helicopter could make a straight bee line to the injuried walker. Real fan of GPS after that experience.


Cheers

[sthughes]

I kinda agree with everything said here - so it's funny that somehow I manage that despite the fact everyone is disagreeing!

I agree with: I don't and wont rely on a GPS, that routing isn't necessary, I usually just guestimate off maps etc, local knowladge and pre-trip planning is golden etc, etc. But I also agree that more knowledge in the form of a GPS (without or even better still with routing) is hardly a bad thing. The more info the better in my opinion. I also agree that all GPS units I have used are lousy for making routes etc. on the device, but I really can't see why it shouldn't be made easier. There is no reason why rout-able mapping of a track should send you off a cliff, I mean that's kinda the point, rather than just an arrow to your destination.

So basically I agree it's all unnecessary. But I also agree it would all be nice.

[photohiker]

Never understood people rubbishing others for using a tool.

Ent, we are having a discussion. I am not 'rubbishing' you. Anyone who disagrees with you (or me) is not necessarily 'rubbishing' you or I.

Having routable bushwalking tracks is a feature I understand, but really would not get any worthwhile use of. Please go ahead and use it if it pleases you. Of course, knowing the distance does not tell you anything about the terrain or condition of the track, and as you say, bad plots can make a bit of a mess of it anyway.

My reply about creating routes on GPS is about creating a point by point route on the receiver. The UI is not friendly for that operation in most cases. Even dropping two points accurately can be a pain.

Lastly, I suggest you avoid going bushwalking with anyone likely to easily suffer from panic over distance to the next stop. Should you find yourself in that situation, you may find that honesty might not be the best approach.

[Ent]

It appears that the dreaded judgement day with OSM is nigh with a maximum claim of 15% of the data about to disappear, assuming the OSM mail out is correct. Some suggest it might be as little as one percent data removed. The reason, well, appears to be a mixture of politics (taking your bat and ball home) and marketing stupidity by at least one company using legal moves that forced a few people into pulling the pin even if they did not want to. It appears that while the rest of world have sorted things out but in Australia this did not happen as smoothly. Would not surprise me it is due to the fanatical approach to copyright that pervades Australia and our over litigious outlook. Needless to say debate looks like it was heated but now the retractors are gone/going and the accepters are madly remapping the missing data. Anyway the merits of the respective camps' views is best left to the OSM forums.

This will likely have an impact on performance and tile generation with the dreaded, you once saw it, but not there when you look again, sanity straining events.

Cheers

[tastrax]

Do you have any links to the forum debates ent?