Bushwalk Australia

From the TASMAP forum - http://tasmap.proboards.com/index.cgi?a ... =41&page=1

TASMAP is in the final stages of releasing the 1:25 000 series as a digital product via the TASMAP e-shop. Individual map tiles will be available in Geo-tiff and KMZ format and can be purchased map by map or as a state wide dataset. This is planned for release by 30 September 2012.

Still no prices but at least its a move in the right direction.

Nice Phil. Reasonable people will be happy to pay a reasonable fee, bit slow on the uptake but all good!

Let's just hope that TasMap's idea of a 'reasonable' fee will be reasonably close to ours.

That's great to hear. Especially now that I have a workflow for getting GeoTIFFs into my iPhone's navigation app.

Regarding price, I’ll just point out that NZ (through LINZ) provide the whole suite of topo maps for download - FREE. In fact, so obliging are the Kiwis that, if you send them a USB external hard drive, they’ll load the lot and return freight it – also free.

Kudos where it’s due.

Damn Kiwi's have beaten us again!

Brilliant. Holding my breath on the pricing, it will need to be slashed on the current prices.

Maybe we need to run a poll?

How much should TASMAP charge for a single TASMAP electronic download? Then we can see how the users expectations match up to the bean counters.

A - less that $1.99
B - $2.00 to $3.99
C - $4.00 to $5.99
D - $6.00 to $7.99
E - The same as a hard copy

Maybe another poll for how much for the entire state map? $10, $20, $30 etc

Its like so many other services online! Which is best, a high price and a small distribution, or a small price and a large distribution? There are 415 maps in the series so anything over $2.50 and you'll pay $1000 plus for the series. So you can sell at $1000+ to a few hundred people or selling for a much lower price to thousands more people. If you sell something for a buck to a million people, you make a $million. I wouldn't think there would be many repeat sales for maps, so a larger audience would be better. I'd suggest the lower the price the broader the audience. At $1.00 a map or less, you might even attract buyers outside Tasmania. And bulk buying the whole state should attract a very big discount.

Furthermore if they make the cost too high, people will be more likely to use pirate copies.

If it was cheap enough, some people (OCD?) would be inclined to buy the whole set even if they had no use for them, simply for the feeling of completeness. I'm likely to fall into this category, as pointless as it I know it is.

At a bulk discount of 15¢-25¢ per map I'd buy the set. At $2+ per map I would by unlikely to buy any.

@TasTrax - did you want a mod to add a poll?

walkinTas wrote:At a bulk discount of 15¢-25¢ per map I'd buy the set. At $2+ per map I would by unlike to buy any.

@TasTrax - did you want a mod to add a poll?

No poll required - just curious what folks would pay per map or for a single map of the state.

Technically a single map will be hard to produce for a GPS (especially in KMZ) as I suspect it will be way too large for most of the newer Garmins or so poor in resolution that it will be all but useless.

Agreed $1/map, or bundle options, or if they are smart they will make their own app..??

Hi

I get the feeling that at bundled option of $99.00 would make it attractive, assuming that the maps are current and no restrictions on printing them for single person use. Be great if there was application to do this. MemoryMaps are so out off date that you have to wonder over their claims on their website about currency of what they flog.

With the dumbing down of many outdoor shops it is getting hard to get the printed maps. Life is too short to stand in Service Tasmania Shops, at least in Launceston Popular ones are often out of stock along with the rarer ones. Also the paper used by Tasmap is junk. I do not mind their waterproof paper and happy to pay the 50% premium but it appears that I am rather Robinson Crusoe on that front, so Tasmap is rather between a rock and a had place on that issue. Once again the tight nature of bushwalkers is driving quality out of items.

In fact, if possible, be great it Tasmap could source a printing shop (Xerox?) for people to chose paper and then "sell" these by electronic download and print. Also you have the Western Arthurs' type area that covers the corners of four 1:25,000 maps. Be great to chose a centre and print a custom 1:25,000 map on waterproof paper.

On the good news front the revised Tasmaps are noticeablely better than the older ones assuming that they have not been "nobbled", read censored by Parks.

Meantime back to OSM and more mapping

Cheers

Of interest to you guys - Projects are underway in the Tas Government to replace the List.

The currently technology platform is quite outdated, running on non-supported technology.

The new ListMap will feature standards based Web Services - WMS, WFS etc. that in theory will enable a wide variety of software to potentially interact with it
in much the same way that Google Maps, OSM work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Feature_Service

Therefore it is potentially possible you could cache tiles from the WFS service onto say an iOS device or android device.
The same thing can already be achieved in browsers using Google / OSM / Bing etc. using javascript technology like OpenLayers.

This example allows you seed tiles onto a mobile device using its offline storage.
http://openlayers.org/dev/examples/offline-storage.html

Some food for thought.... I don't want to give too much away.

Azza wrote:Of interest to you guys - Projects are underway in the Tas Government to replace the List.

The currently technology platform is quite outdated, running on non-supported technology.

The new ListMap will feature standards based Web Services - WMS, WFS etc. that in theory will enable a wide variety of software to potentially interact with it
in much the same way that Google Maps, OSM work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Feature_Service

Therefore it is potentially possible you could cache tiles from the WFS service onto say an iOS device or android device.
The same thing can already be achieved in browsers using Google / OSM / Bing etc. using javascript technology like OpenLayers.

This example allows you seed tiles onto a mobile device using its offline storage.
http://openlayers.org/dev/examples/offline-storage.html

Some food for thought.... I don't want to give too much away.

Sounds great. I need to add a panel in Maps n Trax to allow users to enter their own online sources for OSM type maps. If it really does use the same format as OSM for downloading tiles, this would be exceedingly simple to implement in Maps n Trax.

And yes they have stuffed it up!!!!

Hi
There has been a change in job roles for the TASMAP forum and I will be taking on the duties that Andrew has been doing so well.
We have not published the costs for the digital 1:25 000 map downloads as yet but they will be approximately $2 per map and $250 for the whole state.
At this stage it will only be the 1:25 000 series but we will be looking at making the 1:100 000 series available at a later date for around the same costs.

Cheers
Leigh

Ever reliable

Still, it's a big improvement on what it is now (80% cheaper and no screwing around scanning them yourself). Doubt the full set will sell much though, not too many people would use more than 125 different maps (okay a few of us addicts might)? I'd also like to see all paper maps purchased come with a free electronic version via a coupon or something.

Hit the nail on the head. Most people will only buy the bare minimum as will visitor to the state. Harden Tassie map and walking tragics are the victim of this pricing model. And what do they cost from the likes of NemoryMap, less!

No mention if GST inclusive or exclusive. Typical state bureaucrats. For $99 they would have sold a set but now it will be years if not never that they will extract that amount from me.

Thanks Tasmap for being nothing more than bureaucrats not commercial or people with a social conscience.

Cheers

$250 for the set? That's brilliant when you consider how much Magellan's Summit series costs.

Even just covering the areas I lack paper maps for at the moment, I doubt it'd be worth it.

Ent wrote:And yes they have stuffed it up!!!!

Hi
There has been a change in job roles for the TASMAP forum and I will be taking on the duties that Andrew has been doing so well.
We have not published the costs for the digital 1:25 000 map downloads as yet but they will be approximately $2 per map and $250 for the whole state.
At this stage it will only be the 1:25 000 series but we will be looking at making the 1:100 000 series available at a later date for around the same costs.

Cheers
Leigh

Ever reliable

I dont get it, how have they stuffed it up? 2 dollars a map! thats pretty cheap, you dont seem to want to acknowledge the cost of making maps.

Azza wrote:Of interest to you guys - Projects are underway in the Tas Government to replace the List.

The currently technology platform is quite outdated, running on non-supported technology.

Quite interesting that they are updating TheLIST considering its a far more advanced spatial information database than most other states in Australia offer.

Wow... they actually responded to my question about pricing in a timely manner. I was expecting crickets. Good on them for at least doing that.

I'm OK with $2 per map. I may even consider buying the entire state for the $250, but not sure. At less that $200 it would have been a certainty for me.

north-north-west wrote:$250 for the set? That's brilliant when you consider how much Magellan's Summit series costs.

Sarcasm?!? We really should have an emoticon for Sarcasm.

$250.00 is not a great price. It isn't really even a good price. BUT it is better than the old price. I'm wondering if the price hasn't been set to encourage people to buy individual maps rather than full sets.

frenchy_84 wrote: 2 dollars a map! thats pretty cheap, you dont seem to want to acknowledge the cost of making maps.

It is not a matter of the cost of development, it is a matter of the total return on sales. The more they charge the fewer they sell. If they don't attract sales outside Tasmania then they have a limited audience. Which is better - half a million @ $2 or one and a half million plus @ $1.

walkinTas wrote:
$250.00 is not a great price. It isn't really even a good price. BUT it is better than the old price. I'm wondering if the price hasn't been set to encourage people to buy individual maps rather than full sets.

frenchy_84 wrote: 2 dollars a map! thats pretty cheap, you dont seem to want to acknowledge the cost of making maps.

It is not a matter of the cost of development, it is a matter of the total return on sales. The more they charge the fewer they sell. If they don't attract sales outside Tasmania then they have a limited audience. Which is better - half a million @ $2 or one and a half million plus @ $1.

That relys on the huge assumption that if you half the price you will more than double the sales, which only works in some markets and i highly doubt that Tas mapping is one of those. the 1:25000 series is a huge amount of work lasting decades, when you consider the cost of flying for aerial photography alone than 250 dollars for the whole set is a bargain.

walkinTas wrote:Which is better - half a million @ $2 or one and a half million plus @ $1.

You really think even half a million people would buy these, c'mon get real...

I'm a small business owner and am continually stunned by the perceptions of clients as to how much effort and time goes into producing a product.
Skills and business investment are being exploited in so many areas of our society. Perhaps we should outsource our mapping to The Philippines or India..??

You want a decent mapping service, pay for it!

I like the idea of subscriptions and extras. I think Tasmap could get the price down to $200 a set and offer a 250K set free or digital copies free with paper copies, and such like. Bringing in LOCAL businesses to offer waterproof paper printing options maybe, but please think about the value of the product you are buying and the fact the people who are doing the work live in your community.

stepbystep wrote:

walkinTas wrote:Which is better - half a million @ $2 or one and a half million plus @ $1.

You really think even half a million people would buy these, c'mon get real...

I wasn't really suggesting or even guessing the size of the audience. I was just offering comparisons.

But if the audience is even smaller, then that is even more reason to want to attach a wider audience. On the 610 I had a choice of Tasmania for $49 or Aus&Nz for $149. I probably won't use the NZ bit much, but Magellan is $100 better off because of their pricing model.

walkinTas wrote:On the 610 I had a choice of Tasmania for $49 or Aus&Nz for $149. I probably won't use the NZ bit much, but Magellan is $100 better off because of their pricing model.

My rational exactly, but you are dealing with a Tasmania only mapset. You have to expect to pay a premium.

stepbystep wrote:...expect to pay a premium.

I'm glad we could agree on that.

walkinTas wrote:

stepbystep wrote:...expect to pay a premium.

I'm glad we could agree on that.

...with selective quoting...