Bushwalk Australia

i have had a look through this section already but didnt really find what im after.
id appreciate some advice on my purchase of a hand held gps to go bush walking with. i know with the 4x4 ones what is standard but a little clueless with these smaller hand held ones.
few questions
1. are maps built in like with offroad 4x4 units VMS/Hema etc or are they just using the gps signal?
2. are tracks on these maps so i can see where to go or is it more for putting in waypoints to find my way back etc?
3. im not really fussed on brands, it doesnt bother me, but is there a particular make./model that has more extensive mapping than others? i will be using it 99% of the time for south east qld/northern nsw.
4. what kind of battery life is to be expected from most models?

I looked online a fair bit the last couple hours but unlike 4x4 models most of the info i found was from overseas.

oh also, my partner and i have iphone4/iphone4s/ipad... is there anything worthwhile on there? i know mud maps got very mixed reviews with 4x4ers some loved it some thought it was rubbish. we wont be using the app as our main device, the hand held will be BUT it would be good to have something anyway. i have motion x which i use to record some driving/hiking but i was thinking something with topo maps would be good

like i said, i tried searching for some info on here first - found similar topics but not quite what i was after

thanks guys
appreciate the help

garmin you have to purchase the maps,
magellan have some preloaded but the garmins have better maps for australia
i had a magellan, the pc software for it kept crashing to the point it was unusable...

wayno wrote:garmin you have to purchase the maps,
magellan have some preloaded but the garmins have better maps for australia
i had a magellan, the pc software for it kept crashing to the point it was unusable...

Wow, magellan must be hopeless on maps if you think garmin are better. I find the Garmin maps of very poor accuracy up my way. I would just go with free maps on the Garmin.

The standard map that comes free on the garmins is crap but the ones you buy aren't too bad. I got one for all Australia for about $20 on ebay (card only - can't install it on Mapsource but i can read it from the GPS unit).

The garmins are best for compatibility with various map suppliers as well as viewing in google earth etc.

Can't complain about the new etrex (10,20 or 30) - light, good battery life on AAs, excellent reception (pick up the russian satellites as well as the standard US so more likely to get a minimum number for a fix). But they are finicky to do anything on the unit themselves so best only if you want to set up routes etc on your computer, download to the GPS, then basically only read from the unit. I haven't found that a limitation but depends what you want to do.

The preloaded Magellan maps are crap.
The Summit Series in 25K that you buy for $40 a state are great, outstanding track coverage.
Rumour is Garmins are expensive and clunky to use.
Get what fits your foot.

cookie-monster wrote:...few questions

1. are maps built in like with offroad 4x4 units VMS/Hema etc or are they just using the gps signal?
2. are tracks on these maps so i can see where to go or is it more for putting in waypoints to find my way back etc?
3. im not really fussed on brands, it doesnt bother me, but is there a particular make./model that has more extensive mapping than others? i will be using it 99% of the time for south east qld/northern nsw.
4. what kind of battery life is to be expected from most models?

1 standard free maps had no details, so I installed a few free maps like shonky. Not too bad, but then bought the real garmin maps for $250 and found them to be alot more detailed. Not sure what you mean by "just using the GPS signal" but I assume you mean to ask, does it download the maps as you go? All the maps are stored on the memory card on my units.

2 Most bushwalking tracks are marked on the garmin map, but some distance non-tourist tracks are not marked.

3 Not familiar with other brands, but Garmin is one of the major brands in Australia for walking maps.

4 - I have had a
garmin Oregon 300 - battery life ~ 16 hrs ( 2 days hiking)
garmin Oregon 450 - battery life as above
Garmin zumo - battery life 9 hours.
All 3 are quite old units and I am sure there are much better models out now, the Oregon 450 works well for me. A mate's CX60 gets a stronger singnal than my oregon units.

I also have bought mudmaps for the iphone. I find that my iphone with GPS on, only lasts about half a day with its aging battery so i only use it for short half day trips.
Mudmaps was about $80-100 (cant remember) and its alot less detailed than garmins. The Iphone GPS picks up a signal very quickly compared to the Garmin units, and mud maps has contours displayed very clearly. HOwever it is 3D and still abit more fiddly to use than maps for the Garmin Unit. I think mudmaps for the ipad costs alot more than the iphone version and havnt tried that yet.
I wouldnt call mudmaps rubbish. Its very useful to to go on small strolls espeically if you already have the phone on you anyway. As the maps get regularly updated, you get notified on itunes to update it. Keep in mind there are 2 versions of mudmaps from memory. one was free and you had to buy all maps separately. and then theres my version for about $80 and had a smart topo map subscription for a few years.

If you're doing full day trips, i'd recommend a dedicated GPS than just using an iphone. I like to leave my GPS on all the time so i can look back at my track, and export it to swap with friends.

I just bought the Garmin Oregon 550, haven't used it in the field yet but have found it easy to use so far in test use locally to get the hang of the operation. I did a fair bit of research narrowing down to the Garmin Etrex 30, Oregon 450 & 550 - I ended up going for the Oregon because I thought the touchscreen would be easier that the joystick navigation on the Etrex even tho' it's a bit heavier and doesn't have quite as good battery life as the Etrex. I chose to go with Garmin because I already have a Garmin GPS cycle computer that I use on my road and mountain bikes and use 'Garmin Connect' to track my ride times and distances and the Oregon is compatible with this also plus Garmin was offering free Topo mapswith handheld GPS bought before the end of October (bummer for you this offer is now finished...)

I have a Magellan that does the job well but ended up buying a garmin for the ease of loading osm maps.

Both are very capable and its worth trying all in person to see which interface suits.

AFAIK currently OzTopo maps are the most detailed GPS loadable off-road / walking maps out there.

Not perfect, but pretty good. After all mapping is a compromise and what suits some doesn't suit others. Available only for Garmin.

I've seen OzTopo V2.1 in action in Tas and it did everything we needed. The current version is V4. Price ~$230 (http://www.oztopo.com.au/).

I'm mostly using the free ShonkyMaps with the free Oz Contours and the free Open Streetmap.

I had an eTrex Legend CX, now have a GPSMap 60CX. Both pretty old models but more than good enuf. Swapped to the 60 coz it has front controls which are handier on the motorbike.

If it was me, I'd go for a Garmin. Go to a shop and start looking at the smallest, lightest models. As long as they can load maps.

Happy GPS hunting.

dq

thanks for the advice
Garmin seem to have the best reputation
is it hard loading external/non garmin maps into the device? is Garmins add on maps worth the money? i mainly want maps of sth east qld/nth east nsw

Some of the best maps for the garmin i have found is the Open Street Maps, there a website you can use that will convert the whole of australian OSM maps to a garmin format, all you do is add the maps to the garmin via USB, i dont have the link with me now.

cookie-monster wrote:is it hard loading external/non garmin maps into the device? is Garmins add on maps worth the money? i mainly want maps of sth east qld/nth east nsw

"hard" is relative.

some maps you buy on a memory card & just put the card into the GPS ... easy.

transfering maps from PC to GPS ... like for example free downloaded maps or tracks that you got from others ... fairly easy if you're a reasonably competent PC user.

a bit harder than transfering pics from a camera to a PC.

dq

I have great PC skills but my head was put in a spin trying to understand OPs directions on creating and loading maps onto a Garmin.

Taz73 wrote:I have great PC skills but my head was put in a spin trying to understand OPs directions on creating and loading maps onto a Garmin.

If you get maps that are made for Garmin, then you don't need to create them.

If they are on a memory card you just put the card into the GPS & you're done.

If they are on CD/DVD or downloaded, then you install them on you PC like any other piece of software.

Garmin supplies "Basecamp" (or the older "Mapsource") software with every GPS. This is used to view maps on the PC, create routes, and download maps/routes/waypoints/tracks to the GPS. It also allows to grab tracks/waypoints that you've walked from the GPS and save them to PC for future use. Loading maps to the GPS with the software is easy: select map sections (like for example only 1 region), connect GPS with USB cable, click transfer.

If that puts your head in a spin, then you're kidding yourself about having great PC skills.

dq

i was pretty certain on the Garmin maps62 or maybe the Oregon 450 after a couple days research... then read some very very unfavourable reports on both. starting to get quite confused now with which way to go on the gps lol

give us a list of what's important to you for your new GPS.

and give us a summary what it is the 2 GPS were criticised for.

cookie-monster wrote:is it hard loading external/non garmin maps into the device? is Garmins add on maps worth the money? i mainly want maps of sth east qld/nth east nsw

With the newer Garmins, it's a piece of cake. Mainly because they now support multiple map image files on the device instead of just one.

So, to load Openstreetmaps onto a new Garmin:

1. Get MicroSD card and install it in the GPS.
2. Hook GPS up to computer, wait for the removable disk devices to appear.
3. Download relevant Image from: http://www.osmaustralia.org/garmin.php
4. Open up the MicroSD disk (usually called 'No Name' or whatever)
5. Open the 'Garmin' Folder in the MicroSD (or create it if it isn't there already)
6. Copy the image you downloaded in (3) into the Garmin Folder.
7. Eject/Safely remove the two Garmin disk devices from your computer
8. Enjoy.

Other sources of free Maps for Garmin:
ShonkyMaps: http://shonkylogic.net/shonkymaps/ (This is a Garmin version of the Geoscience Australia 1:250k map)
Contours Australia: http://www.lizarddrinking.net/ (actually, no longer free, $20.80 gets the contour map on a USB stick which is ok because the download is pretty large)

i have garmin oregon. loaded it with free 5m contour maps. works well with lithium batteries (you get about 2 and a bit days of walking from a pair). i haven't been lost yet (but never was before either). i still carry a map and compass though.

ok whats important to me is
1. ease of use
2. long battery life/tough
3. thorough maps of sth east qld/nth nsw (whether this is built in or add on after purchase i dont mind, but as money is an issue it all adds up)

im pretty sure from all reviews from users, both Magellan & Garmin have useless maps that come standard, no?
so it mainly goes on what maps they offer after purchasing the GPS?... from what i can gather Magellan are $49 for a qld topo map ( any good?)
and Garmin are...? actually not sure how much Garmin are. i see online they offer a $200 topo add on..

Just got garmin rino 650

Two for 649.

You can see where the other user is and send them messages. Also has inbuilt 5w radio.

If you dont need two see if someone on here will go you halves as you get 2 chargers. Then you get the to of the line garmin for 325.

@ cookie-monster:
re. qu 1&2 ... don't know Magellan, but would assume that they wouldn't be hugely different

re. qu 3 ... that's probably the clincher ... have you seen this thread: http://www.gpsaustralia.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12520?

maybe you could nominate an area you know well and ask for screenshots of maps from both M & G maps.

and give us a summary what it is the 2 GPS were criticised for.

dq.

Unfortunately it's going to be a compromise, regardless of what you buy you've probably got close to what you need with the IOS devices.

I’ve got an IPhone 4s and Garmin Etrex 20 which I use for walking, cycling, and travel. I do put maps on the Etrex but mainly follow tracks because it’s hard to navigate around the screen whereas the IPhone is great mapping wise so I often use both. The Garmin stays on all the time whereas the IPhone gets used as needed.

The problem with the IPhone is it’s got an A-GPS on-board so for optimum GPS performance you need telephone towers within range, but the Bluetooth GPS receivers solves this problem. I can’t speak from experience but the aircraft industry use these with the IPad and maps.

I think a cheap mapping GPS and a Bluetooth receiver would be good option providing they work as well as they say.

Bluetooth GPS receivers.
http://xgps150.dualav.com/
http://bad-elf.com/
http://www.mfi.gns-gmbh.com/index.php?a ... =3&clang=1

dancier,

AGPS is just hot-rodding the standard GPS ephemeris etc startup data download. Without network coverage, an iPhone gets it's startup data the same way any other GPS does: from the Satellites. The benefit is in fast startup (turn-on to position lock).

A bluetooth GPS module may or may not be better than the included GPS receiver and aerial in the iPhone, but it doesn't add AGPS back into the equation when you are out of cellular network coverage.

I suspect the aircraft industry uses BT GPS with iPads at least partly because not all models of iPad come with onboard GPS. The downside of a BT GPS on the trail is the extra hit on the device battery life of running BT...

i did the Warrie + Pinnacle Circuit yesterday, using MotionX GPS and it ran my battery dead before we got back to the car. given we did take longer than most caused we stopped for so long at several spots enjoying the view but confirms that i dont want to rely on my iphone.

as for what i heard bad about Garmin, from memory i read user reviews saying the interface was terrible and clunky and the maps that came with it were bordering on unusable. but then again read the same thing about magellan maps.
an easy interface and simple to use would be nice but thats probably a matter of just getting used to it.

my Garmins with good quality re-chargable batteries tend to last up to 3 days ... 3 X 6-8 hours. Wouldn't be surprised if the same is true for comparable GPS from other brands.

Larger screens, more detail on scree, etc. would presumably chew up more power thus shorter battery life for equivalent battery capacity/weight.

interface was terrible and clunky and the maps that came with it were bordering on unusable

probably true ... IF you expect a small handheld device to fully replace detailed maps (printed or on a larger screen) and yes, AFAIK most GPS software hasn't succeeded yet at feeling very user-friendly ... but that may also be a function of the sheer number of options they have and no matter which software design you chose it'll be a compromise that not everyone is happy with.

for meself ... I don't expect the GPS to fully replace a detailed map.

I take paper maps and am quite happy with the GPS showing me a "rougher" outline of where I am & where I'm going. For detail I'll look at the paper maps. Best of both worlds to my way of thinking.

Call me old-fashioned, but I like the fact that unless I destroy them paper maps keep working under nearly all circumstances. I don't have that confidence with electronic devices that rely on systems controlled by the military or the likes in other countries.

i dont want the GPS to replace maps, i want to use both paper maps and GPS

Check out shonky maps. They are free, will fit on the GPS without Sd card. Easy to do with Garmin.
The back to base function is a great thing with GPS. Getting dark or storms comes over get directions back to base and follow.

Iphones aren't waterproof, if you dropped on the screen could break. I have an iphone 4 and wouldnt consider taking it if GPS was an option.

You can make your own custom maps easy enough with google earth and garmin. Also download a fair few topos or buy the garmin topos or others.

can i view shonkymaps on my pc before buying a gps? so i can see if im happy with it or better off with something else? what are the other map options for Garmin>?

cookie-monster wrote:can i view shonkymaps on my pc before buying a gps? so i can see if im happy with it or better off with something else? what are the other map options for Garmin>?

Yes you can.

Install Garmin basecamp on your computer and then download and install the relevant version of shonky from here: http://shonkylogic.net/shonkymaps/

You will be able then to browse the map in basecamp.

The other map options in Garmin are:

Openstreetmap
OzTopo
Garmin Topo
Contours Australia (which can be overlaid on any map)

cookie-monster wrote:can i view shonkymaps on my pc before buying a gps? so i can see if im happy with it or better off with something else? what are the other map options for Garmin>?

When I first bought my Etrex 20, all that mattered was putting maps into it but now I mostly navigate to tracks and waypoints so I wouldn't get too hung up on maps in the GPS, I've got Shonky loaded onto mine. I use Basecamp with Shonky Maps, Google Earth/Maps and RideWithGps to do my track and waypoint plotting.