Bushwalk Australia

Long time no post, I’ve not been around here for quite some time. While I still bushwalk, I’ve also been out of touch with gear, and was never really into electronics anyhow. I got a rude shock to find the latest GPS units all have fixed batteries like smart phones, where most or all have moved away from AA batteries! Personally, this sucks big time if it means charging batteries in the bush becomes a major hassle. But maybe I'm seeing it wrong and there are options?

I’m in the market for a new GPS unit to replace my previous Garmin unit that was working perfectly fine up until a few years back when it broke due to a minor fall. I haven’t needed to replace it till now, and would like to know what people are using purely for navigation purposes, and how do you charge batteries in the bush when you’re several days into a walk and have no means of swapping over the dead batteries with fully charged ones. I haven’t been into smart watches and prefer something handheld with a map display that will show my location and log my tracks without draining the battery, something I can add waypoints to at locations of interest, and even upload previous tracks for places I’ve previously walked etc. And that’s about it.

Surely the tech has improved since I last bought a GPS about 14 or so years ago. Please let me know what your thoughts are on a decent bushwalking gps unit that fits the above criteria, because I am stumped with the latest offerings!

Heh Ptp
Think about using a mapping app on a smartphone.
Avenza is free and very easy to use.
John

I didn't replace my eTrex a few yrs back. So I too asked your question....

I now use smart watch (Garmin Fenix 6) - it lasts for 10 days (4 days+ with GPS constantly running), it has worldwide maps preloaded with most foottrails marked, it logs my track, I can upload GPX routes to it. Only downside is the small display & fiddly pan/zoom controls, but it is excellent for following a route while keeping hands free... and is impossible to drop
I also take my phone (it has only 1-2 days of charge) with the Avenza app (or one of many others), which does all the above... except I have to preload the topos I need.
On longer trips, I also take a small 150g power pack (& cables) to recharge them both if required.

Some are using 'power banks' to recharge things. Consider that headtorches, cameras are all going to internal batteries or non AA batteries?

If you insist on a AA GPS there is the Garmin 66s (or 66i for one with a SOS and message capability). However I don't think the battery capacity will power them for too many days of use.

The above watch looks fairly good keithj

Garmin have released new, updated models on long-time tried and tested ones e.g. the 64s, which I have. No interest in the new models but I can vouch for the reliability of the 64s (bought second hand from a boatie in 2017). My only concern is how Garmin especially, actively gouges uses to pay astronomical prices for mapping "updates", when the base maps are not entirely accurate to start with, nor for that matter, entirely useful for purpose e.g. in bushwalking. But we have VicMap and OSM maps available and these are a quantum improvement on useability and accuracy. I think the overall priority should be the accuracy and usefulness of maps, and the provision for loading your own to enhance accuracy. A quad-helix antenna will work very well in deep gorges (like I have periodically traversed in Victoria's Great Otway National Park) and penetrate forest cover. Battery life though is probably the first major consideration; I get 8 hours of use on 2AA Eneloop rechargeables with backlight turned off. I am not sure what you are referring to about GPS units with "fixed batteries"? I was told years ago when I went looking for a GPS to avoid "fixed battery-style" handheld GPS units. Years on, I can certainly see the reasoning behind that!

There are small fold-up solar recharging pads at Kathmandu and MacPac; I am unsure of the power output of these as required to fully (or reasonably) recharge a GPS e.g. the 64s; recently released GPS units by Garmin appear to be even more powerful. The solar pads are not heavy or cumbersome like USB battery packs. but the would be pretty useless if you are stuck in a whiteout for 2 days. Carrying 2 extra AA batteries (or whatever a GPS uses) is an option, if they can be kept dry.

You probably should toddle into one of the better outdoor shops, even at the risk of being fleeced of big biskits of cash, to get the low down and a demonstration, paying attention to battery life, antenna capability, base maps and updates (including the cost, if any) and the ability to recharge away from base. I have to get the GPS out of its cosy protective jacket, remove the clip and fiddle with a rubber flap to access the USB recharge/battery port. All a bit fiddly in-field, but I suppose part of the experience one have to accept and get used to!

+1 to everything in the post above.....

It very much depends on how you want to use the GPS. For what you describe you could get away with an Etrex 22x (no sensors). You can add OSM maps to it, record your track logs etc, add and edit waypoints. Plenty of memory and 'relatively' light on battery use.

https://www.ja-gps.com.au/Garmin/etrex-22x

If you want bigger, more intuitive buttons then the 60 series are the go as others have described. Just decide if you need all the sensors (which probably chew batteries faster)

https://www.ja-gps.com.au/Garmin/gpsmap-65 - no sensors
https://www.ja-gps.com.au/Garmin/gpsmap-65s - with sensors

I use these with environmental volunteers and they are easy to use and pretty intuitive. As for batteries, we use rechargeables but generally its only day trips, plus we carry a few spares. You can minimise usage by turning down the backlight and other settings - again its about how often you take it out of you pack to refer to it - more use, less battery life.

Stepping outside of these to ones that have internal batteries and satellite communication adds to the complexity so make sure you really need the features they offer before purchase (and subscription fees).

https://www.ja-gps.com.au/Garmin/gpsmap-66i

PS - free OSM maps for Garmin GPS

https://www.bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopi ... 21&t=28893

Thanks all who replied, you've given me some food for thought. I'll see what I come up with but I think the next thing to research is battery packs/power banks.

Warin wrote: Consider that headtorches, cameras are all going to internal batteries or non AA batteries?

Yes, but my few year old Petzel headtorch uses 3 AAA batteries that weigh hardly anything, and I can carry spares at no cost, and it has multiple brightness settings where I generally only need the least bright light. And my camera, well it weighs a tonne but again i carry spare Li batteries that i can swap out when one goes flat.

If navigation is all you're after, there are heaps of great mobile phone apps out there. Just use your phone, but remember to download the maps before you head out, in case you lose mobile reception.

If you need SOS services as well, then you need a PLB or Garmin type offering as well to stay safe.

And that's where trying to get the balance right can be hard. Simple but not stupid is your phone, a compass, and a PLB. And if you enjoy hard copy maps.





Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Pteropus wrote:Thanks all who replied, you've given me some food for thought. I'll see what I come up with but I think the next thing to research is battery packs/power banks.

Warin wrote: Consider that headtorches, cameras are all going to internal batteries or non AA batteries?

Yes, but my few year old Petzel headtorch uses 3 AAA batteries that weigh hardly anything, and I can carry spares at no cost, and it has multiple brightness settings where I generally only need the least bright light. And my camera, well it weighs a tonne but again i carry spare Li batteries that i can swap out when one goes flat.

There is muchto be said for carrying the smallest and lightest headlamps, and again with the smallest and lightest batteries.
And there are so many out there to light the way. I dislike having any more than one device using AA or AAA batteries. The Garmin, with 2 AAs on board and perhaps two spares, is sufficient. FWIW, my li'l Petzel E+ headlamp runs on one CR2032 button cell (never been changed in the time I've had it), with multiple modes and red or white. Rolls up into its own clasp and attaches to backpack.

On the other hand...
Camera? Cameras??
Mine weighs 13kg (powered by an 11gram 6v battery)...

Biggles wrote:

Pteropus wrote:On the other hand...
Camera? Cameras??
Mine weighs 13kg (powered by an 11gram 6v battery)...

I lust after a 645.

But my present set up weights 2.5 kg - includes spare battery, tripod, 28 to 600 equivalent lens ... and costs a lot less...

Warin wrote:

Biggles wrote:

Pteropus wrote:On the other hand...
Camera? Cameras??
Mine weighs 13kg (powered by an 11gram 6v battery)...

I lust after a 645. But my present set up weights 2.5 kg - includes spare battery, tripod, 28 to 600 equivalent lens ... and costs a lot less...

That set up is sensible. At an individual level, what people take usually reflects the type of photography they do. A couple in my circle are happy to lug 6kgs of large format stuff into the Western Arthurs!

I haven't seen a 645 for many years!
BTW, the P67 is a hulk, but was not expensive when acquired! Bought for $450 in 2007. The value has increased 18x since then. I do not take it on overnight walks of course. For those, I take an Olympus XA that I have owned since 1982 — just a release — for goofy, stupid, unfocused and unlevel snaps!!

Meanwhile, has anybody here got the integrated camera version of the GPS64s and can report on the quality of images?
I'm heading down to Big Town tomorrow to collect prints in lovely, multicultural Fairfield, and will fill in lunch time in Lt Bourke Street having an "interested observer" look at the present offerings of GPS and their features.

I'm personally surprised at how many are using their phones for navigation when bushwalking. Maybe I shouldn't be? Perhaps mobile phone batteries have improved, but not in my experience. Obviously for day walks they suffice, but knowing how much some apps can increase battery use, I imagine you'd be charging through the charge rather quickly!

Biggles wrote:On the other hand...
Camera? Cameras??
Mine weighs 13kg (powered by an 11gram 6v battery)...

THat is a fearsome rig you have there! I haven't weighed my camera gear in ages but comes to approximately 3 - 3.5 kgs all up depending on lens I take, number of batteries (6 days I'll take 3 just in case, but never ever use the 3rd).

Pteropus wrote:I'm personally surprised at how many are using their phones for navigation when bushwalking. Maybe I shouldn't be? Perhaps mobile phone batteries have improved, but not in my experience. Obviously for day walks they suffice, but knowing how much some apps can increase battery use, I imagine you'd be charging through the charge rather quickly!

If you put your phone on aeroplane mode it uses significantly less battery.
The GPS will still work fine.

If you want to save even more battery, turn your phone completely off and accept it will take a minute or so to restart it when you need it.

Pteropus wrote:I'm personally surprised at how many are using their phones for navigation when bushwalking. Maybe I shouldn't be? Perhaps mobile phone batteries have improved, but not in my experience. Obviously for day walks they suffice, but knowing how much some apps can increase battery use, I imagine you'd be charging through the charge rather quickly!

Using aeroplane mode (which disables multiple battery-draining communication abilities), and turning the phone off at night, I can get at least 4 days out of my phone's battery - often more (depending on how much I use the camera, read books at night, whether I'm using the GPS/map/nav ad-hoc, or constantly tracking). And this has been the case for at least 10 years. Of course some GPS/map/nav apps may be better at power management than others, too.

If I'm going for more than 3 days, I'll carry a power pack that I can use to recharge the phone. It is about the same size as the phone itself and can charge the phone fully 3 or 4 times. So that would keep the phone going for about 12-16 days.

And the map/nav/GPS apps available on smart phones are (in my opinion) vastly superior that what's available on dedicated GPS devices (which is ironic - I mean they have ONE job to do!). EDIT: Oh, yes... and you can get full-featured map/nav apps for a 1-off payment of $5 or $10. That's peanuts! (There are also much more expensive apps, and year-after-year subscription apps, but as far as I can tell, they don't offer significant value over some of the cheaper ones.)

My only concern with using the phone is how fragile it is. It could be easily broken if dropped. I guess this can be overcome, to some extent, with the right case, but dedicated GPS devices are made tough. For me this is much outweighed by the multi-purpose use of the phone device (also acts as camera, e-reader, 'PeakFinder', etc), and the vastly superior map/GPS/nav abilities (in my opinion).

(Take everything I say with a grain of salt, because I'm the developer of an iOS maps/nav/GPS/GIS app, so I'm definitely biased.)

Biggles wrote:On the other hand...
Camera? Cameras??
Mine weighs 13kg (powered by an 11gram 6v battery)...

My RB67 says hi (with a big flappy mirror slap)
Granted it's not an every day bushwalking carry, more for dedicated trips.

For GPS, honestly Gaia on your phone is brilliant and well worth the $40 per year. Being able to do route planning/import/export on desktop then transfer over to your mobile device, save various topo and sat imagery offline is a big win.

Missus has a Garmin 66i (GPSMAP unit with built in InReach functionality) which is great for serious tracking, nav and can import sat imagery albeit a bit low res compared to what you'll get off your phone. It does eat battery power though, needs to be recharged every two days or so which is a little annoying.

On the other hand my old Garmin InReach Explorer+ has very simple nav functionality (no auto tracking/routing) and very limited Route points... however using it as essentially a more sophisticated compass it's great and the battery life is awesome... will go for a week or more between charges, though as a PLB replacement it's prudent to keep the battery above 50%.

We both use our Fenix 6 watches too for a bit of nav, not always the best for absolute accuracy but very convenient and a good backup to the above devices.

To be fair in this day and age useing a stand alone GPS unit is pointless withthe technology of smartphones and the endless supply of mapping apps catered to each individual.
I personally just use my samsung note and use locus maps.I have tried many apps and Locus maps fits my needs paired with my coros vertix watch with navigation.

Besides the new-fangled, multi-featured watches that do everything but tug on your ear for attention, I didn't see any GPS devices today in Melbourne; got inconveniently distracted by a JetBoil Minimo - something I had in mind to check out, but mind you, not at $330!!
I guess then the old FURNO will be getting an extended service...

ChrisJHC wrote:If you put your phone on aeroplane mode it uses significantly less battery.
The GPS will still work fine.
If you want to save even more battery, turn your phone completely off and accept it will take a minute or so to restart it when you need it.

Son of a Beach wrote:Using aeroplane mode (which disables multiple battery-draining communication abilities), and turning the phone off at night, I can get at least 4 days out of my phone's battery...

Yes, this is not my first rodeo so-to-speak, I do use aeroplane mode with my phone when out of reception...
However

Son of a Beach wrote:And the map/nav/GPS apps available on smart phones are (in my opinion) vastly superior that what's available on dedicated GPS devices (which is ironic - I mean they have ONE job to do!). EDIT: Oh, yes... and you can get full-featured map/nav apps for a 1-off payment of $5 or $10. That's peanuts! (There are also much more expensive apps, and year-after-year subscription apps, but as far as I can tell, they don't offer significant value over some of the cheaper ones.)

This surprises me, and don't get me wrong, I believe you, but like you say, dedicated GPS has one job to do! Btw I use FieldMaps GIS app on my work phone and it chews through the battery charge like a power hungry mapping monster. There's a massive difference in how much charge i have left in my phone at the end of the day when I'm using the app in the field vs a day in the office not using the app. Though it is a GIS with way more going on than a simple mapping app.
But I'd like to know more about the following -

Son of a Beach wrote:If I'm going for more than 3 days, I'll carry a power pack that I can use to recharge the phone. It is about the same size as the phone itself and can charge the phone fully 3 or 4 times. So that would keep the phone going for about 12-16 days.

What power pack do you use? I know nothing about this area at all. How long does it take to recharge your phone in the bush? Also, on the fragility of phones, battery life can be affected by the cold, where i've found my phones are affected more than other devices.
Thanks for all the replies!

So,. ...
I have a rugged phone.
IP68 submersible
Dustproof
Shockproof
10 amp battery
Runs for 14 days in flight mode with a call home when reception allows.
Allows pairing with my inreach mini.
I can track all day/every day in amongst all that.
The replacement version has in/out charging so I can charge lights and watch and other bits from it.
Seems like the answer to me.

Depending on the length of the trip, I use the following for charging my phone:

Overnighter: nothing, just manage my battery by using aeroplane mode and turning it off when I can.

2-5 days: carry a battery pack. I think mine is either 10,000 or 20,000 mAh.

Longer: carry a solar panel. Mine is flat and fits nicely in the “brain” of my pack. I bring it out when stopped for lunch or at the end of the day. I then use it to charge my battery pack then charge my phone (and any other devices) from the battery pack - usually overnight while sleeping.
The reason I do it that way is that sometimes “smart” devices don’t like the variable power you can get from your solar panel whereas the battery pack will handle it fine.

Oh, and regarding ruggedness, I find a simple case will do wonders.
Also, you can keep it in a ziplock bag to keep water and dust out without significantly affecting the operation.

I will observe that I once found my phone had been completely under water for over an hour and it worked fine. I did have to over-ride the warning that there was moisture detected in the charging port!

Pteropus wrote:I use FieldMaps GIS app on my work phone and it chews through the battery charge like a power hungry mapping monster. There's a massive difference in how much charge i have left in my phone at the end of the day when I'm using the app in the field vs a day in the office not using the app. Though it is a GIS with way more going on than a simple mapping app.

Heh... don't use Field Maps as any sort of measure. I'm a GIS admin at work, and do a lot with Field Maps. It is not an entirely good example of how to do mapping/navigation on an iOS device. Don't get me wrong, it's an eminently useful app for GIS field work, but its battery consumption is more than it should be. I think the only app that is worse in this regard is 'Survey123' (also from ESRI).

A genuinely mobile-friendly app should not be engaging the location services of the device except when absolutely necessary. I don't know if this is Field Maps problem or not, but I do agree that it's not a mobile-friendly app in terms of power consumption.

There are a lot of nav/map/GPS apps to choose from, and some of them can be quite economical with power usage. Of course, if they are constantly tracking the location, then that will consume more battery power, but the OS (at least iOS, which I'm more familiar with) provides ways for app developers to do even this fairly economically.

But I'd like to know more about the following -

Son of a Beach wrote:If I'm going for more than 3 days, I'll carry a power pack that I can use to recharge the phone. It is about the same size as the phone itself and can charge the phone fully 3 or 4 times. So that would keep the phone going for about 12-16 days.

What power pack do you use? I know nothing about this area at all. How long does it take to recharge your phone in the bush? Also, on the fragility of phones, battery life can be affected by the cold, where i've found my phones are affected more than other devices.
Thanks for all the replies!

I use a Xiomi 10000 mAh power bank that my wife bought be for a present a few years ago (on the bottom it says "Mi PowerBank Pro"). It's been really handy for recharging the phone on medium to longer walks. I don't know how long it takes to recharge the phone. I plug it in when I go to bed (not every night), and when I get up it is charged.

Yes, temperature does have an impact on all kinds of batteries. I keep my phone in my (zip-secured) pocket during the day, where (hopefully) it remains a little warmer. I don't know what impact the cold has on the battery bank, but I've never had trouble getting the charges I needed out of it.

Actually, the power bank is a little smaller than my iPhone 13 (standard size, not plus size phone). It's about 5 mm thicker, though.

Son of a Beach wrote:Heh... don't use Field Maps as any sort of measure. I'm a GIS admin at work, and do a lot with Field Maps. It is not an entirely good example of how to do mapping/navigation on an iOS device. Don't get me wrong, it's an eminently useful app for GIS field work, but its battery consumption is more than it should be. I think the only app that is worse in this regard is 'Survey123' (also from ESRI).
A genuinely mobile-friendly app should not be engaging the location services of the device except when absolutely necessary. I don't know if this is Field Maps problem or not, but I do agree that it's not a mobile-friendly app in terms of power consumption.

Yeah, I know not to compare Field Maps with a navigation app, because it isn't a nav aid, and can do so much more than a gps, but yes, it does use way more power than I feel it should even when I do the most basic actions in it!

Son of a Beach wrote:I use a Xiomi 10000 mAh power bank that my wife bought be for a present a few years ago (on the bottom it says "Mi PowerBank Pro"). It's been really handy for recharging the phone on medium to longer walks. I don't know how long it takes to recharge the phone. I plug it in when I go to bed (not every night), and when I get up it is charged.

Yes, temperature does have an impact on all kinds of batteries. I keep my phone in my (zip-secured) pocket during the day, where (hopefully) it remains a little warmer. I don't know what impact the cold has on the battery bank, but I've never had trouble getting the charges I needed out of it.

Actually, the power bank is a little smaller than my iPhone 13 (standard size, not plus size phone). It's about 5 mm thicker, though.

THanks SOB, great information.

FYI, for anyone interested or following this thread, there are still GPS that take AA batteries (like the Garmin GPSMAP 65 series), just the guys at the hiking store led me to believe AA battery powered GPS were a thing of the past. However there is the Garmin GPSMAP 67 series with fixed lithium batteries with claimed battery life of over 150 hours.