Tarkine

[Nuts]

Well, perhaps a tad harsh but I don't take kindly in being accused as responsible of all the worlds woes (whatever that frenzy was about).
And I don't try to generalise in disparaging people, more a focus on their actions & (in this case) words on a forum.

I'm not sure where the assumptions on other peoples movements spring from? Those that don't post pics or play the game?
Anyhow, nope! As I say, first iv'e heard, here, now, from you. Geoskid is his own man with (or forming) an equally worth while opinion as are others here.

Last edited by Nuts on Tue 14 Apr, 2015 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[photohiker]

Don't stay away too long sbs!

[flyfisher]

Some will miss him, others not. The verbal jousting was fun tho.

FF

[RichB]

This statement always makes me cringe. : " personally have no problem with mining, although at the moment with the drop in resource prices it is probably not a good investment for the state"...
How is mining ever a good investment for the state?....It may offer a handful of jobs to locals yes and more money to be shipped overseas into foreign bank accounts..How does mining benefit the state at all..

[corvus]

This statement always makes me cringe. : " personally have no problem with mining, although at the moment with the drop in resource prices it is probably not a good investment for the state"...
How is mining ever a good investment for the state?....It may offer a handful of jobs to locals yes and more money to be shipped overseas into foreign bank accounts..How does mining benefit the state at all..

Worth checking this out .
https://www.tas.liberal.org.au/sites/de ... future.pdf

In my opinion without Mining and Forestry Tassie would have been a Bucolic, albeit beautiful Mendicant State without the infrastructure we now have to enable Tourism to flourish and without Mining I believe we would not have the access roads that the Hydro built .

And I am not a Liberal Voter

[Taurë-rana]

It's a pity things have got personal, nothing wrong with robust discussion and someone having a different point of view from anyone else or getting passionate about things shouldn't be threatening. I've appreciated what sbs has posted here as it gives the chance to discuss the issues.

On another note, where was that photo taken Nuts or should it not be posted in here?

[Nuts]

Same here, I don't see a need for all the dramatics. It all sounds a tad silly, hard to believe even.
The attitude to other user groups and local residents comes across as typically 'new' green (to me)
(which doesn't necessarily = judgement of anyone's personal contribution, unfortunately setting aside passion as an excuse)



It's on the Arthur Taurë-rana. Wonderful!

Last edited by Nuts on Tue 14 Apr, 2015 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[photohiker]

Same here, I don't see a need for all the dramatics. It all sounds a tad silly, hard to believe even.

So no need for dramatics, let's just put down anyone we disagree with and call their responses silly and hard to believe?

The attitude to other user groups and local residents comes across as immature/ fostered in a vacuum /typically 'new' green (to me).

Yet more put downs. Lets not discuss, lets just call them immature, inexperienced and some sort of 'fake greens'.

(which doesn't necessarily = judgement of anyone's personal contribution, unfortunately setting aside passion as an excuse)

Then we excuse ourselves from the put downs we just delivered.

Anyhow, ok, i'll just leave this topic alone, it's not worth the apparent 'weight' on emotions.

Didn't last long, did it?

[Nuts]

I logged in to respond to a question.
I mean what I say about green politics and the insular attitude.
You think it's something new? Attitudes within this topic, forum or from any individual?
People actually live here, these issues are serious!

As I said, silly, happy to leave your mate alone (& my topic), as I said. Really has little to do with him, reaction to polemic, old, attitudes.
It may ease tensions, makes no difference to me or any outcome & I think there's enough evidence to the contrary as to who would prefer no discussion..

[photohiker]

Discussion can be difficult but reasonable without personal attacks.

[doogs]

This statement always makes me cringe. : " personally have no problem with mining, although at the moment with the drop in resource prices it is probably not a good investment for the state"...
How is mining ever a good investment for the state?....It may offer a handful of jobs to locals yes and more money to be shipped overseas into foreign bank accounts..How does mining benefit the state at all..

Jobs, infrastructure, royalties, education, services...do I need to go on??

[corvus]

This statement always makes me cringe. : " personally have no problem with mining, although at the moment with the drop in resource prices it is probably not a good investment for the state"...
How is mining ever a good investment for the state?....It may offer a handful of jobs to locals yes and more money to be shipped overseas into foreign bank accounts..How does mining benefit the state at all..

Interesting RichB that you chose to enter into a conversation and criticize a member when you as usual have not done your homework on the subject having obviously no idea of the return to the economy that Mining gives and with respect I suggest a little investigation on the subject would perhaps remove some blinkers .
Just saying
Thought I would add an additional lack of your knowledge of Tassie

Are there hot natural springs even in Tasmania?...I have never come across any..If so could someone please tell me where they are?

Perhaps more time getting information rather than ranting would be good for your education .
Again Just Saying

Last edited by corvus on Mon 13 Apr, 2015 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Buddy]

This statement always makes me cringe. : " personally have no problem with mining, although at the moment with the drop in resource prices it is probably not a good investment for the state"...
How is mining ever a good investment for the state?....It may offer a handful of jobs to locals yes and more money to be shipped overseas into foreign bank accounts..How does mining benefit the state at all..

Interesting RichB that you chose to enter into a conversation and criticize a member when you as usual have not done your homework on the subject you have obviously no idea of the return to the economy that Mining gives and with respect I suggest a little investigation on the subject would perhaps remove some blinkers .
Just saying

Hear *&%$#! hear! People need to realise that everything that man utilises for our benefit either grows in the ground or comes from under it. No exceptions.

[corvus]

RichB,
Without Mining you would not be on line think about it
Just Saying

[corvus]

RichB,
Other than Rocky Cape where else do you go walking ? Tarkine perhaps ?

[Taurë-rana]

I think there could be much debate about the relative value to regular everyday Tasmanians of mines in the Tarkine as opposed to the value preserving it and promoting Tasmania as somewhere that's special compared to the rest of the world, which is running out of untouched places. I live on the NW Coast, I have kids that are struggling to find work, I'm struggling to find work and the work I have for a few weeks a year as a tax consultant brings me into contact with many people who are having trouble finding jobs, but I don't believe that mining and logging is the solution. Mining only contributes a small percentage to the state's GDP compared to tourism.

Logging has been shown to be unsustainable without handouts, and mining also is heavily subsidised by government funding. I'm sure that if that money was put into creating innovative, sustainable small businesses that capitalised on what is unique about Tasmania, we would be better off down the track. That isn't to say that all mining is wrong, but the controls to protect the environment are just not in place as has been seen already. Perhaps if there was a lot more emphasis placed on recognising the value of the landscape as is and protecting it while also mining, the debate wouldn't be so heated. But it seems that the mine chiefs and government and a large percentage of the public see wilderness just as something to be exploited. Why is it so wrong to want to look after somewhere that is beautiful?

it would be interesting to see some true estimates of the value directly to Tasmanians of different scenarios of uses of the Tarkine, with a projection 50 years in the future as well. It would have to include the value of the carbon sequestration in the trees, and the cost of remediating any mine sites, and the cost of cleaning any contaminated waterways.

Hellyer Whisky, Nant, all our wineries,40 degrees South, the cycle trails that are being developed in the NE, why not make the state a place where people from all over the world want to come and see our scenery and sample our uncontaminated produce? And I have not swallowed green rhetoric, I live here, I grew up here, I have children and grandchildren growing up here, I've been bushwalking and 4 wheel driving here and watching the evolution of our state for 30 years or so. I care about looking after what we have left because I've watched so much of it disappear, and I want my children and their children to still have wild places to go to.

[icefest]

This statement always makes me cringe. : " personally have no problem with mining, although at the moment with the drop in resource prices it is probably not a good investment for the state"...
How is mining ever a good investment for the state?....It may offer a handful of jobs to locals yes and more money to be shipped overseas into foreign bank accounts..How does mining benefit the state at all..

Personally I Think mining can be ok, but generally only if combined with some form of value-adding in the state. Take it as a kind of "damage multiplier", but rather one that decreases the relative environmental damage for the same amount of employment, increase in capital and state money.
The biggest problem economically is the same problem that exists when there is any single large export oriented industry in a country.

There are two hot warmish springs, in the south and in Katherine.

Last edited by icefest on Wed 15 Apr, 2015 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

[doogs]

There is one hot warmish spring, in the south.

There are a handful dotted around the state which aren't advertised, including one at Balfour in the Tarkine!

[north-north-west]

I think there could be much debate about the relative value to regular everyday Tasmanians of mines in the Tarkine as opposed to the value preserving it and promoting Tasmania as somewhere that's special compared to the rest of the world, which is running out of untouched places. I live on the NW Coast, I have kids that are struggling to find work, I'm struggling to find work and the work I have for a few weeks a year as a tax consultant brings me into contact with many people who are having trouble finding jobs, but I don't believe that mining and logging is the solution. Mining only contributes a small percentage to the state's GDP compared to tourism.

Logging has been shown to be unsustainable without handouts, and mining also is heavily subsidised by government funding. I'm sure that if that money was put into creating innovative, sustainable small businesses that capitalised on what is unique about Tasmania, we would be better off down the track. That isn't to say that all mining is wrong, but the controls to protect the environment are just not in place as has been seen already. Perhaps if there was a lot more emphasis placed on recognising the value of the landscape as is and protecting it while also mining, the debate wouldn't be so heated. But it seems that the mine chiefs and government and a large percentage of the public see wilderness just as something to be exploited. Why is it so wrong to want to look after somewhere that is beautiful?

it would be interesting to see some true estimates of the value directly to Tasmanians of different scenarios of uses of the Tarkine, with a projection 50 years in the future as well. It would have to include the value of the carbon sequestration in the trees, and the cost of remediating any mine sites, and the cost of cleaning any contaminated waterways.

Hellyer Whisky, Nant, all our wineries,40 degrees South, the cycle trails that are being developed in the NE, why not make the state a place where people from all over the world want to come and see our scenery and sample our uncontaminated produce? And I have not swallowed green rhetoric, I live here, I grew up here, I have children and grandchildren growing up here, I've been bushwalking and 4 wheel driving here and watching the evolution of our state for 30 years or so. I care about looking after what we have left because I've watched so much of it disappear, and I want my children and their children to still have wild places to go to.

I wish there was a more positive way of saying +1, but as that's all I can come up with for the moment . . .

+1 in spades

[Nuts]

Tourism- sounds good, reads well, has a useful role in our future, can surely only be viewed (like mining) as an answer in terms of individuals/individual projects, short term casual employment, not career, not of 'substance', not community sustaining, not economically any more stable than mining (?) Small startups wont cut it, not without the attention of bigger players, especially for the lucrative infrastructure projects (that would be needed). Big companies may even spend less in the state (or even the country). IMO of any scale, politically driven, a tourism 'revolution' would be a sucker punch for those in the north west, especially forced on communities built by generations around increasingly fickle farm production, a flailing forest industry and mining.

Failures in the other industries due to lack of diligence, motivation or economic thrift? - The same people who allowed this are still and will be in positions in public services (and even at strength minority parties don't seem to have had many influences not cancelled by the negatives)

(Not intending to dismiss Taurë-rana's post, tourism comments, iv'e got a great deal of time for small, home-grown tourism enterpises)

At the same time I tend to believe the general concern of opponents to mining:
http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php?/ar ... erves-to-/
I'm sure even the supporters wont have us stand for places eventually left in that state? (if indeed it is)

Discussion can be difficult but reasonable without personal attacks.

What!? Look
If I could be bothered to further explain I'd point out the slightly out-of-context, subtly useful way you've misrepresented my posts above. It's not the first time. I realise i don't explain some points very well for all the wordiness but the issues blend into each other and things here have become inevitably complex. As far as i'm concerned though, your last post was just as much a 'personal attack' and obviously, topically, not really any of your business (in an old school, ethical, non-forum sense).

You are correct, discussion can continue to be reasonable.

(apologies to anyone who wasn't either moderated or their traditional support group- it certainly must seem harsh)

Last edited by Nuts on Tue 14 Apr, 2015 10:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.

[corvus]

[quote="Taurë-rana"]I think there could be much debate about the relative value to regular everyday Tasmanians of mines in the Tarkine as opposed to the value preserving it and promoting Tasmania as somewhere that's special compared to the rest of the world, which is running out of untouched places. I live on the NW Coast, I have kids that are struggling to find work, I'm struggling to find work and the work I have for a few weeks a year as a tax consultant brings me into contact with many people who are having trouble finding jobs, but I don't believe that mining and logging is the solution. Mining only contributes a small percentage to the state's GDP compared to tourism.]


Worthwhile checking this out
http://www.tasmaniatopten.com/lists/eco ... butors.php

[Nuts]

Don't stay away too long sbs!

Just to add, while it's fresh- I'd thought to give it some time (to settle down)- actually agree- he should come back.. and modify his last post.

The one:
*discussing (apparent) moderation and
*discussing private message content.

I wouldn't ordinarily/overly care, a bit petty, but this seems to be the game- winning/loosing
Both the above points Iv'e had to tolerate the same being used as 'outrages'

Just to say, I do now recall some request about. another member (I seem to recall he reneged.. almost immediately ). Was he 'mr X' i wonder.. anyhow.. if there was another I can look back at messages etc and see what happened.

Last edited by Nuts on Thu 16 Apr, 2015 7:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[Taurë-rana]

http://www.tasmaniatopten.com/lists/eco ... butors.php

That's what I looked at originally, but for some reason I read $400,000 for mining rather than $400 million. Still a lot less than tourism but not the small percentage I thought I read.

[Hallu]

I just saw a franco-german documentary on the Tassie devil conservation (360° Geo), they talked quite a bit about the Tarkine. I was glad to see they showed the truth : mining pollutes the rivers and soils for a long period of time, but miners are misinformed and some seemed open to learn and care about wildlife conservation. They said in the docu that the creation of a Tarkine NP was blocked by heavy lobbying from the mining and logging industry. I wished they'd expanded on that, as no details were given. It was mostly about Nick Mooney's work and another guy working on wildlife rescue, can't remember his name. Anyway, it's quite a popular program (on a free public channel) so let's hope this raises awareness.

[stepbystep]

The first event from 'Tarkine In Motion' is on in Sydney, a simple photographic exhibition, it is the precursor to a much larger series of exhibitions and workshops that will range from slideshows, public seminars, a Festival of the Voices season in early July, a large combined art exhibition in August for Hobart and then Burnie throughout October. Much more beyond that.

If you're in Sydney come and check out the diversity of the Tarkine, and then make a trip down the west coast

Attachments

[GPSGuided]

Salerno Gallery on Glebe Pt Rd. Just 10mins away, very convenient to get to. Thanks!

As an outsider, what's confusing me with all the Tarkine and related conservation talks is this. Whilst the pro-mining supporters talk about jobs and economy, anti-mining supporters are countering it with natural conservation messages and stating tourism can generate more sustainable jobs, and is better for the economy. Then another group of pro-conservationists would torpedo this message and complain and campaign bitterly against any increase in tourism, especially those that proposes to explore wilderness spots. It would seem the anti-mining camp is not well united with marked contradictions in the messages. That won't win a public campaign.

[stepbystep]

Perhaps you are confusing Tarkine issues(which has virtually no level of protection) with TWWHA issues? Very different beasts.

[GPSGuided]

Could be. Will try to drop in the gallery in the next few days.

[Nuts]

http://www.pressreader.com/australia/me ... 1/TextView

[photohiker]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-18/o ... ys/6478178

Off-road motorists' continued use of Tarkine tracks makes farce of ban, Greens senator says

Off-road motorists are taking down protective fences to ride roughshod over Aboriginal middens, Tasmanian Greens senator Peter Whish-Wilson says.

Senator Whish-Wilson said some motorists were not just continuing to flout the law by using banned tracks in the 100,000-hectare Arthur Pieman Conservation Area, they were joyriding over middens protected by fences and signs.

About time these people were charged for their behaviour and some kind of effective monitoring put in place.