Budawangs UXO

[colinm]

Not wishing to be alarmist, but rather interested: http://www.southcoastregister.com.au/story/138108/big-bang-theory/

Article says:

There is likely to be unexploded ordnance throughout the former Tianjara Range, which goes from Main Road 92 all the way down to just short of Pigeon House.

It also suggests that the topo maps aren't accurate, in that they don't accurately represent the Army's firing range.

Something I didn't know, which concerns me:

The most recent public safety document on the subject is confidential and cannot be viewed by the public.

Sort of makes you wonder whether land mines are really the best way to enforce the Wilderness Act 1987. Some wag in the article comments suggested hunters should be allowed to run riot down there, and reduce the incidence of UXO.

This NPA document suggests (quite reasonably) that NPWS release all the information they have on the problem http://www.npansw.org.au/index.php/downloads/doc_download/106-miltonbranchnewsletterno62.html ... I wonder on what basis the government is asserting secrecy. It doesn't seem reasonable to me.

NPA seems to believe that the area covered by UXO is smaller, and better defined, than the NPWS is letting on. I don't know the facts.

(Definition UXO "Unexploded Ordnance" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexploded_ordnance)

[FatCanyoner]

I think the reality is they have very little idea of exactly where the UXOs are. Given it was only a couple years ago that chemical weapons shells were found buried in Lithgow (Defence had no idea they were there).

That said, I agree the document should be made public. Perhaps they don't do it because the region is still officially off limits, and if the document says it is low risk they worry people will demand more access?

Given the number of bushfires that have gone through there I'd be very surprised if there was much live stuff still floating around.

Still, there is nothing scarier than stumbling on a UXO. About a decade ago, when I was in the reserves, I was doing an exercise in north QLD in an area previously used for live fire exercises. We stumbled on a muddy area where we found several unexploded mortars stuck in the mud! It was pretty intense. We did the standard UXO exercise (the same thing you do if you stumble into a minefield) and made our way out of the area. No idea if they were still live, but we didn't want to find out!

[north-north-west]

We did the standard UXO exercise (the same thing you do if you stumble into a minefield) ...

Run like buggery - but very, very carefully?

[FatCanyoner]

Run like buggery - but very, very carefully?

That was my natural instinct!

No, we carefully got down on hands and knees, and using your knife on an angle across your hand you prod into the ground, clearing a path about 50cm wide in front on you. Slowly we all joined up to one path then continued it until we were safely away from them. It is slow, tedious, *&%$#! work... but still better then getting blown up I suppose!

I don't carry a big enough bushwalking knife to do the drill effectively, so I might keep clear of the old range for a while yet...

[colinm]

we carefully got down on hands and knees, and using your knife on an angle across your hand you prod into the ground, clearing a path about 50cm wide in front on you. Slowly we all joined up to one path then continued it until we were safely away from them.

JFCoaRC!! I wonder how you plug that procedure into Naismith's rule.

I'm poking my nose in (where it's not wanted, I'm sure) and asking NPWS for all their documentation on this. I can't believe that they've done risk assessments but they hold them secret. The result is that I'm confused by all the contradictory quasi-information. On the one hand there's a complete ban in some areas, on the other hand the relevant authority says "Bushwalking per se is not a threat."

I hate being confused, so I'm going to keep digging until I hit something hard ... then give it a bit of a tap.

edit: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-20/bombs/4144210 reference for NPWS quote above.

[colinm]

I think the reality is they have very little idea of exactly where the UXOs are. Given it was only a couple years ago that chemical weapons shells were found buried in Lithgow (Defence had no idea they were there).

I'm sure you're right, and that it would cost 'em an arm and a leg to find out. Perhaps not literally.

That said, I agree the document should be made public. Perhaps they don't do it because the region is still officially off limits, and if the document says it is low risk they worry people will demand more access?

Just finished reading Colin Watson's _As_it_happened_1803-2003_ and am becoming more interested in the decision to close Newhaven Gap to vehicles. This was documented at the time as reducing access numbers to that area. I'm wondering whether there's a hidden agenda here. It's not making sense to me yet.

Given the number of bushfires that have gone through there I'd be very surprised if there was much live stuff still floating around.

Apparently they call it 'cooking off', and I am told that bushfire fighters have reported hearing such. However, some of the range covers parts of the upper Clyde, and I'd bet they haven't been burnt in centuries, so I'd be loathe to rely on it.

[FatCanyoner]

I'm going to keep digging until I hit something hard ... then give it a bit of a tap.

Maybe wear a flak jacket when you give it a tap!!!

Glad to hear someone is digging around. I for one am very keen to find out what is going on. Fingers crossed you get to the bottom of it!

[yogibarnes]

I think there are two separate, but related, issues here. Both relate to risk. The first is the risk the land managing agency runs if someone gets injured by an UXO and takes the agency to court for not being warned of the risk. Understandably, and no doubt you will notice the growing tendency to litigate these days, the agency gets in first and minimises its risk of ending up in court by imposing restrictions. The second issue is the real, or actual, risk of getting injured by an UXO. Just how likely is it? In my view, for a number of reasons, not very likely. However, the consequences are probably serious, not only in actual injury but in delayed access to medical help. Overall, I can't blame the managing agency for going for the cautious option. They have little to lose in doing so, and everything to gain by avoiding litigation.
Incidentally, the 1975 aerial photos show lots of craters in certain areas, mostly near Mt Bushwalker, from bombing runs. They show up on the photo scale of 1:15,840 as pin pricks if you know what to look for. Not much help when you are trying to avoid the unexploded ones but the patterns do indicate the likely areas of UXO's. Also and alas, aerial bombardments weren't the only weapons being used. Artillery shells were also used. The photos show most of the areas which were frequented by tracked machines. Probably some infantry based ammunition about as well. Of course this info is on the aerial and artillery cases is only good for up to 1975 anyway.

[WarrenH]

The second time that I went into the Budawangs was in 1983 or 84, from Turpentine Road, Ada Road to Newhaven Gap. Then Foley Point and Sluice Box Falls, back through The Vines, then a climb of Quilty. The big fires of '68(?) and '74(?) were planned burns that got out of control. The hot fires had kept the heath and understory around the Mallees low for many years and back then the low rock platforms were still clearly evident.

Back then, you could still see the wrecks of the tanks and armoured personnel carriers and field artilery that had been used as targets, just seen from the road ... north of the Galbraith Plateau, outside the red zone, just south of Bundoo Hill on the western side of the road. I didn't take photos, but one of my friend Greg, has shots. If I can contact him, the old tank photos would be good to see. Greg now lives between China and Australia, so it might be pot luck finding him here for Christmas. If he is here in Canberra, I'll ask him if he still has the shots.

Then in the early '90 I met an old bloke, in Nerriga, who was in his mid nineties. He knew Jim Sturgiss, the bloke who named several mountains in the Budawangs, including Mount Sturgiss and Shrouded Gods. The old bloke was really anti National Parks because his mother's property had been resumed by the NSW government for inclusion in either Morton or Budawang or both. The old bloke had not been to Canberra, not once, despite being only 80 minutes drive from Canberra going over Oallen Ford. He told me about the fires over the years and when a fire went across the plateaus, he said the locals could hear the then still unexploded shells going off.

Those days of big explosions would have been good in the Budawangs. Just like when the Quilty brothers earlier blasted Quiltys Pass out of the mountain so they could drive their cattle, up top. The cattle refused to climb the mountain. Quiltys Pass was too steep for cattle.

I'll try to contact Greg.

Warren.

[michael_p]

ABC News article about Deans Gap fire moving into the UXO area on the Tianjara Plateau: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-10/fire-burns-near-unexploded-bomb-site/4459658

[Bushman_Craig]

Bumping this one with some more info -

A 1966 (silent & B/W) film showing some of the activities which caused the contamination of the site - https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/F03754/

NPWS map showing UXO contaminated areas - https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/~/ ... 808E76.ash

CBC report on the UXO risks in the area - http://www.canberrabushwalkingclub.org/ ... dnance.pdf

The army's own description of the area:

The impact zone (shown red in the NPWS map liked above) -

"Site Name: Tianjara Training Area
Category: Substantial
Description: This area was used for manoeuvre and live fire practices from early World War II until 1974. Most army weapons systems were fired on the range, including 18 and 25 pounder, 105mm, 5.5 inch, and 40 millimetre artillery and 4.2 inch, 3 inch and 2inch mortars. All natures including high explosive, but excluding chemical, were fired. Armoured fighting vehicle main armament of 20 pounder, 79 and 37 millimetre calibres and aircraft air to ground ordnance were also fired.
Assessment: This site is assessed as having a UXO contamination potential of "Substantial"."

The rest of the area (shown blue in the NPWS map linked above) -

Site Name: Tianjara Training Area
Category: Slight
Description: This area was used for manoeuvre and live fire practices from early World War II until 1974. Most army weapons systems were fired on the range, including 18 and 25 pounder, 105mm, 5.5 inch, and 40 millimetre artillery and 4.2 inch, 3 inch and 2inch mortars. All natures including high explosive, but excluding chemical, were fired. Armoured fighting vehicle main armament of 20 pounder, 79 and 37 millimetre calibres and aircraft air to ground ordnance were also fired.
Assessment: This site is assessed as having a UXO contamination potential of "Slight". "

The red area was the artillery/gunnery range, while the blue (and presumably unmarked areas further out) were used for field manoeuvres by troops and armoured vehicles.

Mt Bushwalker is well within the impact area/"Substantial" UXO contamination zone, but NPWS is promoting it through info/interp boards - see pics here: http://www.ulladullaonline.com/bushwalk ... ining-area