Mt Guouogang

[bold]

How do you pronounce mt guouogang

Last edited by bold on Thu 22 Sep, 2016 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[ribuck]

Gue - oh - a - gang

The first syllable rhymes with "glue"
The emphasis is on the second syllable

[ribuck]

In Caro Ryan's three peaks video, 20 seconds in, she pronounces it "Goo wow gang":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_uSnyL7TeI

[bold]

Thanks

[puredingo]

But IS there a correct way to pronounce such names? For are these not just misheard interpretations by the European settlers on the Aboriginal language.

[ribuck]

But IS there a correct way to pronounce such names?

The correct way is the way that is understood by other people. That is not always the same as the traditional or original pronounciation.

The Gangerang bushwalkers sketch map annotates the mountain "Ku-o-wo-gang", which I presume is meant to be a pronounciation guide.

20160922_161126.jpg (67.32 KiB) Viewed 15638 times

[puredingo]

Yep, that's true. So I wonder how the K got turned into G over time?

[jonnosan]

That sketch map seems to place 'Mt Guouogang' half way down a steep slope ? Bizarely the topo seems to also have two spots labelled as Mt Guouogang - the summit (where the Jenolan trig station is) and the same spot as the above map. Any ideas what's going on there?

Screen Shot 2016-09-23 at 6.04.42 AM.png (504.01 KiB) Viewed 15623 times

[ribuck]

That sketch map seems to place 'Mt Guouogang' half way down a steep slope ? Bizarely the topo seems to also have two spots labelled as Mt Guouogang - the summit (where the Jenolan trig station is) and the same spot as the above map. Any ideas what's going on there?

Heh, that's funny. Take a look at the sketch map and you'll see an arrow leading from the bottom of the "G" to the actual position. Don't be misled by the dot near the M; that's just a symbol to indicate that it's a government-approved name. Maybe the topo map copied the location from the sketch map and missed the (easy-to-miss) arrow.

[kanangra]

It is pronounced Gwow o gang.

K.

[DaveNoble]

It is pronounced Gwow o gang.

K.

I seem to recall Myles Dunphy pronouncing it that way.

Dave

[kjbeath]

Yep, that's true. So I wonder how the K got turned into G over time?

I've been told by someone expert in Aboriginal languages that there is a sound in their languages which is somewhere between a G and a K, so it was recorded as either a G or K. This makes it difficult for someone from an English background to pronounce the words correctly without first learning how to make the sound. Apparently not easy.

This is similar to what happens in Japanese where there is a sound between an L and an R.

[Allchin09]

That sketch map seems to place 'Mt Guouogang' half way down a steep slope ? Bizarely the topo seems to also have two spots labelled as Mt Guouogang - the summit (where the Jenolan trig station is) and the same spot as the above map. Any ideas what's going on there?

The attachment Screen Shot 2016-09-23 at 6.04.42 AM.png is no longer available

Where'd you get that screenshot from Jonno?

The latest version of the map looks like this.

Capture23.PNG (1.05 MiB) Viewed 15437 times

[Allchin09]

Yep, that's true. So I wonder how the K got turned into G over time?

I've been told by someone expert in Aboriginal languages that there is a sound in their languages which is somewhere between a G and a K, so it was recorded as either a G or K. This makes it difficult for someone from an English background to pronounce the words correctly without first learning how to make the sound. Apparently not easy.

This is similar to what happens in Japanese where there is a sound between an L and an R.

Re pronunciation, maybe Jim Barretts latest book, Gandanguurra: The language of the mountain people and beyond (see http://shop.megalongbooks.com.au/bookwe ... 0994513502) may shed some light on the matter. I'll have a flick through it when it's next in my hand.

[ribuck]

Yep, that's true. So I wonder how the K got turned into G over time?

If you say it the sketch map way, Ku-o-wo-gang, the sound at the beginning is hardly distinguishable from a G.

As Allchin09 posted, the actual sound was probably between a G and a K.

We see the same thing in other nearby names. In written works from the 19th-century, the area south of modern-day Katoomba is spelled variously as Kedumba, Godoomba, Good-doom-bah, Katumba, and Katta-toon-bah. From "Aboriginal Placenames: Naming and Re-naming the Australian Landscape, edited by Luise Anna Hercus, Harold James Koch" in which, unfortunately, I don't see a mention of Guouogang.

[jonnosan]

Where'd you get that screenshot from Jonno?

From http://topo.notto.be/

I think that's pulling tiles from the NSW lands dept server as described here: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=23130

[Allchin09]

From http://topo.notto.be/

I believe that topo.notto.be used to be pulling the tiles from the Spatial Services (new name for LPI) server, but stopped a while back when there were some server changes. It now displays an older cached copy.

maps.ozultimate.com should give you the latest version. For example look at the difference between the two around the base of Sublime Point

[Allchin09]

I had a look through Jim's book, but couldn't find a reference. I'm sure if you read through the whole thing and learnt the language from it, then you might have a better understanding of pronunciation.

The earliest map of the area that I have is a 'Map of the Colony of New South Wales' by Survey General Mitchell published 1834. The spelling appears to be Guowogang. It is interesting to note the nearby Konangaroo (what we now call Kanangra Creek) and Jenolan marked near the current day Mt O'Reilly. Colong is also spelt Collong, and what we know as Kanangra Walls was Thurat.