Walk along middle of a creek through private property

[paul8]

Hello Brains Trusts,
Rumour has it that ...

Say, I wish to enter a National Park in NSW,
and it is surrounded by private properties.

But if there is a named creek that connects the National Park to a public road,
then I can park the car on the public road,
and I can walk along the middle of the creek to enter the National Park,
even though the creek goes through private properties.

Because in most cases, in NSW,
the middle of a named creek is crown land,
hence I don't need permission from property owners to cross their land.

Is this rumour true ?

[Xplora]

Always be careful asking legal advice on a forum. You should research the answer yourself. Vic law allows for an unspecified area adjacent to the waterway to be designated crown land. It is unspecified because it varies but usually it a chain in old terms or 20m but can extend to 200m. Some land owners around the Oberon area have challenged people walking on the banks of streams and accused them of trespass. I am a bit rusty on my NSW law but as I understand it you can walk in the creek and up to the high water mark but not on land. Like I said you should verify this by reading the legislation.

[Neo]

I recall this here from a year or two ago. Victoria was the only state that aligns with the old English myth of crown land along creeks? In NSW you need to check each individual property boundary on a map. Try SIX maps/ etopo. Personally I would guess there must be an easement marked somewhere! How on earth would you find property owner contact details other than door knocking, I dunno

[Xplora]

I recall this here from a year or two ago. Victoria was the only state that aligns with the old English myth of crown land along creeks? In NSW you need to check each individual property boundary on a map. Try SIX maps/ etopo. Personally I would guess there must be an easement marked somewhere! How on earth would you find property owner contact details other than door knocking, I dunno

I have been told that Victorian law once considered the owner of the property to own the waterway and if that was the boundary then to half way but it changed to allow crown land either side. Some people still believe they own the waterway. As far as NSW goes you can find the relevant legislation here: https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis ... s13.3.html
but there are some caveat that depend on when and how the property was acquired. The course of a waterway changes but the boundary that is registered may not have changed and it requires a survey and then application. see here: https://www.crownland.nsw.gov.au/resour ... ermination and here: https://rg-guidelines.nswlrs.com.au/dep ... boundaries

[jonnosan]

I dont think the fact the presence or absence of a name for creek or river would make a difference.
Possibly what you have heard is the right that recreational anglers have to fish in any stream or river, including on private land, as long as they enter it from public land https://www.freshwateranglers.com.au/?page_id=161

[Allchin09]

Paul8 - there's nothing in NSW specific to 'the middle of the river' being crown land. However, certain creeks are crown land, and if they are, the crown land often extends to the river banks (which can actually be a bit further away from the usual waters edge) meaning you can sometimes travel along the bank whilst avoiding private property.

Shoot me a PM with details of the spot you're looking at and I can have a look to see if there's any chance it is crown land. But just being a named creek isn't an indicator as to whether it is or not.

[rcaffin]

Ah, just invite the owner to call the Police - and keep walking.
In the most unlikely case that they actually touch you, that is assault, for which THEY can be charged. Tell them this.

Cheers
Roger

[Xplora]

Ah, just invite the owner to call the Police - and keep walking.
In the most unlikely case that they actually touch you, that is assault, for which THEY can be charged. Tell them this.

Cheers
Roger

That would be an assault unless you were trespassing and was asked to leave. Refusing to leave means you have committed the offence of trespass and the owner has every right to arrest you. More so, the owner can use as much force as is necessary to take you to the Police or hold you until Police arrive. This is not to be construed with the so called 'castle law' which the Americans like but owners have rights in Australia too.

[johnrs]

Yes Paul that is correct in NSW.
Public access extends to the banks at the normal water level.
But there can be exceptions under old land titles.
And landowners often make up their own rules, particularly if they feel harassed.
John

[puredingo]

Ah, just invite the owner to call the Police - and keep walking.
In the most unlikely case that they actually touch you, that is assault, for which THEY can be charged. Tell them this.

Cheers
Roger

That would be an assault unless you were trespassing and was asked to leave. Refusing to leave means you have committed the offence of trespass and the owner has every right to arrest you. More so, the owner can use as much force as is necessary to take you to the Police or hold you until Police arrive. This is not to be construed with the so called 'castle law' which the Americans like but owners have rights in Australia too.

Passing through is by its very nature and essence the act of leaving the property. Setting up camp is a different story, but who wants to camp directly in a rivers edge.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Ah, just invite the owner to call the Police - and keep walking.
In the most unlikely case that they actually touch you, that is assault, for which THEY can be charged. Tell them this.

Cheers
Roger

That would be an assault unless you were trespassing and was asked to leave. Refusing to leave means you have committed the offence of trespass and the owner has every right to arrest you. More so, the owner can use as much force as is necessary to take you to the Police or hold you until Police arrive. This is not to be construed with the so called 'castle law' which the Americans like but owners have rights in Australia too.

Passing through is by its very nature and essence the act of leaving the property. Setting up camp is a different story, but who wants to camp directly in a rivers edge.

You have to enter property to be able to leave the property. What a ridiculous statement.

Camping next to rivers can be absolutely lovely. What a ridiculous comment.


This whole thread is pretty crazy actually. I suspect all grey areas would soon be very black or white if you were arrested on charges of trespass and put before a magistrate.
But hey, give it a shot and let us know how it goes.

[north-north-west]

Repair work again.
Nope, didn't work this time. This is getting really annoting.

[crollsurf]

I've just updated a page that shows some of the NSW Government Spatial Services data. I've included an opacity slider. Its cumbersome but it works.
https://historicalmaps.online/au/nsw/SixMaps.html

If you check either the Cadastre or Property layers, and then use the appropriate slider, you can see the property boundaries overlay the Topo.
Some creeks appear to be on private land, some don't.