petrie wrote: In the UK, As far as I know, there are many extremely well trained and equiped amateur search groups who seem to be the first responders without needing authority from the police. Even the SES can’t go out here without police say so. I realise this is to do with safety but are we really so hopeless ? Anyway, all interesting and very sad.
Nuts wrote:(I have an ominous feeling I should have just moderated striders prickly comment and left it at that..)
Nuts wrote:Why does it really matter who currently has the stage. I imagine as time goes by, unfortunately, the family may well be the only one's left. I had in mind petrie's post, i baulked at approving it thinking that some here would make more of her blog link than it is, at any cost. Iv'e said before, maybe even in the face of fact- if it was my family member nothing would be good enough... yours?
Strider wrote:Nuts wrote:Why does it really matter who currently has the stage. I imagine as time goes by, unfortunately, the family may well be the only one's left. I had in mind petrie's post, i baulked at approving it thinking that some here would make more of her blog link than it is, at any cost. Iv'e said before, maybe even in the face of fact- if it was my family member nothing would be good enough... yours?
If it were my family member I would appreciate having people searching, rather than bitching about irrelevant crap.
Nuts wrote:(FC) No doubt local searchers have been unfairly criticised and probably undeserved. I'm sure they understand and are (on a professional level) quiet tolerant of such criticism and accepting of the grieving process.
Other than that surely they can only learn from each case.
Over-riding is the obvious dilemma that these (official) searches need to have policy on time frames and how to deal with private searchers.
Issues of responsibility, funding so on.. so often (from the institutional/ government perspective) end at the 'too hard' basket.
As an everyday forum member, putting myself in public shoes.. I can't see why I wouldn't expect even a single person from S&R appointed as a coordinator/adviser for an extended period of time... some set parameters/some input about who can join the search. Difficult, perhaps already happening on some level? but the fact is if people are allowed in this country to keep looking for those lost in the bush, they will. If they are allowed then perhaps it isn't enough (or ultimately wise) to leave them to their own devices?
(I have an ominous feeling I should have just moderated striders prickly comment and left it at that..)
The New South Wales Police Department, the Australian Federal Police and the Australian Federal Government need to increase the number of rescue staff being utilized in the search for Prabhdeep Srawn.
colinm wrote:"The lost child" is an Australian cultural motif which runs really deep.
http://books.google.com.au/books/about/ ... ym_PWkEIIC
http://www.smh.com.au/national/a-countr ... -el8d.html
The notion of being lost in the bush goes right to the core of Australian culture, Bourke and Wills, Leichardt, Lassiter, etc etc. As I understand it, the point of Voss (Patrick White) is that he merges with the bush, he embodies it.
This whole saga touches on that. To even suggest that we are all somehow complicit, or negligent, to even *suggest* it, is Australian cultural poison. That might, additionally, blind us to things which we could actually do better.
I think it also goes to the recent subject of prosecuting people who get into trouble - as a culture, we (like the family in question) would seek to blame someone, anyone, when it's not *really* about blame.
So, yeah, I think it's not a discussion without merit. I can't think of a better group of people to unpack the baggage.
corvus wrote:Shees that is a very long bow
wildwalks wrote:... Anyone interested in starting a new thread and exploring what are some things that could be improved to reduce the chance of people losing their life like this...
stepbystep wrote:wildwalks wrote:... Anyone interested in starting a new thread and exploring what are some things that could be improved to reduce the chance of people losing their life like this...
This already happened yet the discussion continues here which brings everything back to this case...
corvus wrote:Why do you feel the need to prolong this thread he is dead
corvus wrote:If it was my son I would keep looking but not level any criticism towards SAR or other Australian searchers when looking for the proverbial needle.
colinm wrote:However good SAR is (and I know it's packed full of the most dedicated and capable people,) it is structurally impervious to effective change through criticism, but that should not be so, and that is why I think this thread has merit.
matagi wrote:How then do we as a community ensure change?
matagi wrote:Change certainly happens when the Coroner makes a recommendation. The Coroner's Court is bound by different rules of evidence from a Criminal Court, which means they can take criticism into account when making their findings, but (fortuntely) not all SAR efforts require the attention of the Coroner.
matagi wrote:Joining a SAR organisation and trying to drive change from within is likely to be a long slow process and unlikely to be successful unless you are part of the professional arm of the organisation as opposed to the volunteer arm
matagi wrote:Referring to this case in particular, the failure to locate the laptop early is a failure of basic policing - that's it.
matagi wrote:There may be criticisms to be levelled at how the search was conducted and how soon it was stopped, but unless we are privy to all the decisions made and the basis upon which they were made, we are not really in a position to judge.
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