Sydney bushfires

[Wollemi]

Anybody know if the area that the Wollemi Pines is affected ?

Yes! I live in Winmalee, and have two Wollemi pines in the front yard...

The natural stand of these Araucariaceae family members is closer to the town of Rylstone, which is no where near any current fire activity.

[GPSGuided]

Here's what they Yanks saw of our current bushfire. It's bad, really bad down there.

[Rob Gosford]

Here's what they Yanks saw of our current bushfire. It's bad, really bad down there.

oh how nicely timed Yanks, timed it RIGHT ON CUE with fraudster Al Gore's comments on ABC tv.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-23/al-gore-weighs-into-debate-over-bushfire-climate-change/5041776

Hey Al ! >>>>> the Lithgow fires started (allegedly) by the Dept of Defence (unproven at this point in time), the Springwood fires started in Linksview Rd by the action of electrical arcing thru trees........several residents in that street testified in hearing the arcing immediately before the fire broke out.

i don't see "so called" GLOBAL Warming / Climate Change operating here ! The fires are called "Australia". Been that way for 40000 years

and another thing, you notice how these Global Warming scare mongaring alarmists just can't bring themselves to say "Global Warming" 'cause they KNOW there is no GLOBAL warming. They have to say "Climate Change" instead. THEY originally called it "carbon dioxide pollution", but now the alarmists call it "carbon pollution", 'cause they KNOW CO2 is an invisible non-polluting gas vital in the process of photosynthesis. Plants and trees absorb CO2 and spit out Oxygen. Instead of charging us a Carbon Tax, plant more trees.


.

[Rob Gosford]

Wow thanks rob! Im surprised the survey marker was fixed. Are they even used anymore?

Hi PD, no probs.
I don't klnow if those trig markers are used these days. There is a new one on the top of Mt. Wondabyne since that fire, so perhaps yes they do. They are used as survey markers ?

[geoskid]

I'm worried about the rest of summer:

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/updates/a ... cord.shtml

(man made) climate-change propaganda ......




.

Rob, can you point out where the propaganda is on that map or that link.
I can only see a summary of measured data and a pictorial representation of it.

[Clusterpod]

Here's what they Yanks saw of our current bushfire. It's bad, really bad down there.

oh how nicely timed Yanks, timed it RIGHT ON CUE with fraudster Al Gore's comments on ABC tv.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-23/al-gore-weighs-into-debate-over-bushfire-climate-change/5041776

Hey Al ! >>>>> the Lithgow fires started (allegedly) by the Dept of Defence (unproven at this point in time), the Springwood fires started in Linksview Rd by the action of electrical arcing thru trees........several residents in that street testified in hearing the arcing immediately before the fire broke out.

i don't see "so called" GLOBAL Warming / Climate Change operating here ! The fires are called "Australia". Been that way for 40000 years

and another thing, you notice how these Global Warming scare mongaring alarmists just can't bring themselves to say "Global Warming" 'cause they KNOW there is no GLOBAL warming. They have to say "Climate Change" instead. THEY originally called it "carbon dioxide pollution", but now the alarmists call it "carbon pollution", 'cause they KNOW CO2 is an invisible non-polluting gas vital in the process of photosynthesis. Plants and trees absorb CO2 and spit out Oxygen. Instead of charging us a Carbon Tax, plant more trees.


.

Yeah, nevermind 25 years of research linking bushfire to climate change. Its all a conspiracy. I'm sure the BoM and the CSIRO, some of the world's leading institutions, are all just lying to increase funding.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/planet ... re-science

The only people that KNOW there is no global warming are the cranks, shills and stooges. There are zero people, thats right ZERO people that know there is no global warming. Just like even the most sure researchers in climate science don't know that there is. Science doesn't work that way, and only cranks, shills and stooges say that it does.

I understand shills and stooges all over the news pages but actual, honest-to-goodness deniers, and bushwalkers at that, just amaze me.

The firies say they can see the changes: https://theconversation.com/what-firefi ... ange-19381

Non-linear change: hotter and drier - https://theconversation.com/fire-and-cl ... ride-19391

I don't think this is off-topic at all.

No one is saying AGW or CC started these fires. But it makes a great straw-man.

[perfectlydark]

My bad wording rob, trig marker/survey marker same thing. Yes it has been replaced which is why im thinking..why?

Not getting involved in the climate change debate as although I have clear views based on evidence there is always more work to do and people get so fired up for some reason over the topic so ill leave that one alone

[GPSGuided]

What climate change? I thought it has always changed in Earth's history, each episode was associated with major extinctions and evolution of new species. Interesting stuff. We human would never have evolved without it, or could well have become chewy snack food for the dinosaurs! No need to get too worried about it, is there? I wonder which major species is due to go extinct at the next round? Me worried? Nay...

[icefest]

I'm loving the amount of sarcasm in this thread...

[GPSGuided]

What sarcasm?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fNvi6xG-5Y

[jrg]

Does anyone know which bushwalking areas have been burnt?

Most of the burned out area from the State Mine Fire is in the southern end of Wollemi National Park. In terms of more popular walking tracks, I presume the tracks around Mountain Lagoon (T3 track, etc.), Mount Wilson, etc. will be out of action for a while.

I also heard on the radio yesterday that they were backburning down in the Blue Gum Forest to stop the Mount Victoria fire spreading down the Grose Valley, so that may mean some of the Blackheath area is out of action for a while too, depending on how bad the Mt Victoria fire is. I understand that the RFS has managed to contain the fire from getting into the Grose Valley generally so the area may be ok.

The southern side of the Blue Mountains doesn't appear to have been affected by these fires at all.

[Allchin09]

jrg - Thanks for the info

[photohiker]

and another thing, you notice how these Global Warming scare mongaring alarmists just can't bring themselves to say "Global Warming" 'cause they KNOW there is no GLOBAL warming. They have to say "Climate Change" instead. THEY originally called it "carbon dioxide pollution", but now the alarmists call it "carbon pollution", 'cause they KNOW CO2 is an invisible non-polluting gas vital in the process of photosynthesis. Plants and trees absorb CO2 and spit out Oxygen. Instead of charging us a Carbon Tax, plant more trees.

Point of order. Have you ever heard of the IPCC? Do you know what the organisation's acronym name stands for, especially the last 2 letters? That's right, Climate Change. IPCC has been around since 1988. The science tells us that boosting greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere will alter the planet's energy balance and the climate will become more volatile. There will be winners and losers, but mostly losers for a whole lot of reasons such as the proximity of population to sea level.

People talk about climate change because that's what is happening.

There was more than enough CO2 in the atmosphere to enable photosynthesis in the 1850's and there is more than enough now, we never needed to increase CO2 levels for the sake of the plants. CO2 is everywhere there is atmosphere, what the plants need is appropriate temperatures and rainfall.

[icefest]

photohiker, I think he was sarcastic...

[Grabeach]

Looking at the RFS site maps I linked previously, it would appear the RFS are trying to contain the Mt York Rd (Grose) fire to an 'island' area west of Mt Banks and north of Hat Hill Rd. Within that area they will possibly let the fire burn itself out. From a purely off track bushwalkers point of view, (bolded and underlined so nobody jumps down my throat) this might not be a bad thing as it has become very scrubby there in recent times.

Not having a great deal of knowledge on the subject, I tend to keep out of the global warming debate. It is concerning however that it has apparently become difficult to differentiate between some of the more extreme views and sarcasm.

[geoskid]

photohiker, I think he was sarcastic...

Well, thats possible - fairly elaborate setup though, he's got the rhetoric down pat.
Sarcasm or not, views like that do exist, and they received appropriate responses IMO, given there is also an invisible audience.

I prefer people to say what they mean, and mean what they say - no second guessing then, especially in the absence of facial expression.

[GPSGuided]

I prefer people to say what they mean, and mean what they say - no second guessing then, especially in the absence of facial expression.

Don't make life too boring!

[geoskid]

Don't make life too boring!

Hehe, life is a big enough party for me even when people do say what they mean

[Wollemi]

Important-sounding impending change-of-climate announcement here (even while the dispersed smoke gets thicker on this cool-to-cold morning);

http://www.gg.gov.au/governor-general-v ... fected-nsw

Friday, 25 October – (all times and locations are TBC)

Late morning
Briefing at Penrith Panthers Leagues Club and meeting NSW Rural Fire Service, interstate fire service crews and volunteers.

Afternoon
Meet with families affected by the fires at the Penrith RSL.
View fire affected areas around Springwood and Faulconbridge.
Meet with volunteers and families at the Springwood Sports Club, Blue Mountains Recovery Centre and North Richmond Community Hall.

[photohiker]

photohiker, I think he was sarcastic...

I don't.

Happy for him to come forward and say so. Nothing in his post suggests sarcasm to me.

[michael_p]

Interesting video.

[icefest]

That's some awesome drone piloting and footage.

[Onestepmore]

As I commented on Fatcanyoner's Facebook post of this, 'chillingly beautiful footage'

[Lindsay]

Here's what they Yanks saw of our current bushfire. It's bad, really bad down there.

oh how nicely timed Yanks, timed it RIGHT ON CUE with fraudster Al Gore's comments on ABC tv.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-23/al-gore-weighs-into-debate-over-bushfire-climate-change/5041776

Hey Al ! >>>>> the Lithgow fires started (allegedly) by the Dept of Defence (unproven at this point in time), the Springwood fires started in Linksview Rd by the action of electrical arcing thru trees........several residents in that street testified in hearing the arcing immediately before the fire broke out.

i don't see "so called" GLOBAL Warming / Climate Change operating here ! The fires are called "Australia". Been that way for 40000 years

and another thing, you notice how these Global Warming scare mongaring alarmists just can't bring themselves to say "Global Warming" 'cause they KNOW there is no GLOBAL warming. They have to say "Climate Change" instead. THEY originally called it "carbon dioxide pollution", but now the alarmists call it "carbon pollution", 'cause they KNOW CO2 is an invisible non-polluting gas vital in the process of photosynthesis. Plants and trees absorb CO2 and spit out Oxygen. Instead of charging us a Carbon Tax, plant more trees.
.

+1. It's not so long ago that certain climate alarmists had us preparing for a new ice age.....But to the Springwood fires, back when I lived in the area Yellow Rock road was nothing but a fire trail, and the regular fires out that way destroyed little or no property. Now it is a mini suburb in its own right, plonked down in the middle of the bush by developers out for a quick buck. Now people wonder why there is so much property destruction and try to blame some outside influence like 'climate change' instead of thinking that maybe it was not so smart to put a housing subdivision in the middle of virgin bushland with only one way in and out.

[Allchin09]

Now people wonder why there is so much property destruction and try to blame some outside influence like 'climate change' instead of thinking that maybe it was not so smart to put a housing subdivision in the middle of virgin bushland with only one way in and out.

Interesting point Lindsay. Bushfires are a natural and necessary driving force of the Australian landscape and there is no stopping them. The only things that we can do is minimise the impact that they cause us which can be done in many different ways.

[Walk_fat boy_walk]

Not having a great deal of knowledge on the subject, I tend to keep out of the global warming debate.

Yep. Unlike 23 million other Australians, I'm not a climate expert, so I tend to go with what the scientists are saying (noting that they're not all in agreement).

One thing that gets me is our PM saying on one hand that climate change is real BUT hasn't contributed to the bushfires. Surely it can't be both ways? Yes, there have always been bushfires and it's impossible to say definitively they've climate change is directly at fault in any of the current/recent fires, but I would've thought an acceptance of warming is acceptance of an increased propensity for fires, given a commensurate increase in the dryness of the fuel load and likelihood of weather conditions that are conducing to fires starting and spreading. Climate change might not the the sole cause of any given fire, but if we accept that it exists then surely we also have to accept that there is at least some degree of (albeit unquantifiable) causality?

But like I said I'm certainly no expert

[Mark F]

I should reveal that I worked for the Australian Greenhouse Office on science policy for 6 months some years ago and did courses in meteorology and fire behaviour/ecology at uni. There was a very sensible interviewee on the Drum earlier this week. His response to bushfires and climate change was that while climate change does not necessarily increase the number of bush fires, climate change is likely to increase the severity of any fire due to higher temperatures drying vegetation more quickly after precipitation and more energy in the atmosphere generating higher winds. So you cannot link a specific fire with global warming - as the deniers claim "it takes a match/spark", but the severity is very likely increased by climate change.

[geoskid]

I should reveal that I worked for the Australian Greenhouse Office on science policy for 6 months some years ago and did courses in meteorology and fire behaviour/ecology at uni. There was a very sensible interviewee on the Drum earlier this week. His response to bushfires and climate change was that while climate change does not necessarily increase the number of bush fires, climate change is likely to increase the severity of any fire due to higher temperatures drying vegetation more quickly after precipitation and more energy in the atmosphere generating higher winds. So you cannot link a specific fire with global warming - as the deniers claim "it takes a match/spark", but the severity is very likely increased by climate change.

+1 There was something to this effect on ABC radio this afternoon while I was working - didn't catch it all, but his language was very careful not to mention cause, but increased likelihood.

And then there is the politics, which may or may not care, understand or respect the science.

[stepbystep]

I should reveal that I worked for the Australian Greenhouse Office on science policy for 6 months some years ago and did courses in meteorology and fire behaviour/ecology at uni. There was a very sensible interviewee on the Drum earlier this week. His response to bushfires and climate change was that while climate change does not necessarily increase the number of bush fires, climate change is likely to increase the severity of any fire due to higher temperatures drying vegetation more quickly after precipitation and more energy in the atmosphere generating higher winds. So you cannot link a specific fire with global warming - as the deniers claim "it takes a match/spark", but the severity is very likely increased by climate change.

Thank you Mark F.

This discussion has baffled me. It's quite bizarre the logic some people use to justify their vote.

We are as a nation/planet taking several backward steps when our only hope lies in front of us.

Kudos to the good people fighting at the coalface, be they firefighters or those brave enough to speak up for the truth and our future.

[Nuts]

Anyhow.. is this worth splitting into cause and effect? I was finding the local focus interesting on it's own, likely a hot topic in NSW over summer (pardon the pun).

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