Hannels Spur

[north-north-west]

Yeah, it'd be great for the Irenabyss . . . hmmmmm, how about 'rafting' the Franklin in one? That'd be a right buzz.

Yep, 'inspiration' struck when I was up on the Porcupine, and gave me the first line intact. The rest was pure blood, sweat and tears. It's sort of a hybrid of Judith Wright and John Shaw Neilson, I reckon, but I quite like it. Fortunately no-one has ripped it to shreds yet . . .

[geoskid]

Fortunately no-one has ripped it to shreds yet . . .

Thats because we only just learnt that you penned it..........No,very nice, I'm envious - I don't have a poetic (or artistic or musical bone in my body)

[melinda]

Hi Scavenger,
Don't worry about 'them' ripping the poem to shreds. We experience this on a regular basis out in the bush, so I guess we must pretty 'thick skinned' by now and able to cope with it.
I was very impressed by your poem. Good to know there are a few bushwalkers out there who have some artistic flare!
Melinda

[matthew]

Thanks Melinda and Warren for the info. We have already decided to postpone the walk, mostly due to the temps we will get tomorrow and the risks associated with these. Scrub sounds familiar to that which i experienced over on Tate West Spur many years ago, and on reflection not something which i think would please the kids nor myself. I have spoken to someone else about the state of this spur who has experienced it recently, and he is determined to make it more passable in his retirement, which is to begin later this year. Maybe, not in the too distant future, Hannels spur will be achievable with slightly more ease.
Cheers,
Matt.

[north-north-west]

I don't have a poetic (or artistic or musical bone in my body

I only have one very tiny one, and I think it's just been worn out.

[north-north-west]

Errrr, Warren, as you seem to know the area better than I do - how long do you think it would take a decrepit, unfit old cow to do the circuit, goind up Hannels and down Townsend, then back along the river?
I'd love to have a go at it, but reckon I'd need at least three days, if not four.

[ferozious]

HANELLS SPUR ---> CATERPILLARS!!! MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF CATERPILLARS!

when we did it last year, i was the only one in the group who was able to harden up and lead the way through the webs.

[LeftRightShoot]

Hello all,

Ive come in late on this one... Im after details on attempting Hannels Spur on the June Long weekend... Ive been to Kossy in June before (1st/2003) and there was some snow around after Seamans but was quite walkable in normal shoes.

Is this still early enough in the season to reliably avoid too much snow? (im not much of a snow-person) I understand things change and will obviously check weather and yada yada...

Has anyone else attempted Hannels in June? Considerations?

Cheers

[WarrenH]

One snowless winter in 2003 does not a Winter Wilderness Classification on the Main Range, make.

At this time of year whether you go up on top should be a day to day decision. Even the BOM will not give a forecast longer than 4 days. If you have been keeping an eye on the regional happenings, it is still warm but with lots of rain.

The prevailing winds up top are from the SW. If a cold snap happens there will be snow up high ... but at the moment the mountains are getting repeated SE winds from a progression of East Coast lows. Which, with the maritime influence, this is keeping the snow away. If it does snow with a south easterly the snow tends to be on the Cooma/Jindabyne side, generally giving little snow up top.

I wouldn't go into the mountains at this time of year without having an alternate means of propulsion, like snow shoes. I'd take a tunnel tent and be prepared to hold up, for sitting out a 4 day blizzard. If a cold snap happens you could always stop at the snow line and enjoy the montane forests while slowly walking back down ... people tend not to enjoy the forests on the climb.

There is so much rain at the moment, mornings are cold the days mild and the going is still navigable ... but you need to make it a day-by-day decision.

This is the number for the Jindabyne park office ... (02) 6450 5600

Good luck and take lots of shots.

Warren.

[WarrenH]

Well the weather has come in on the ranges. Two days ago I was wearing a T-shirt and today the air is cold, there is not much wind, yet.

There is snow forecast to 1,000m with severe wind warnings for the mountains. It is now the second day of a blizzard on the Main Range. The blizzard should ease by Friday, then returning to blizzard conditions later over the weekend.

A few days ago it snowed on Jagungal and a chap that I know Doug, he rode in from Farm Ridge had to hold up for a day until it stopped snowing. He then had to carry his bike through the snow. Doug said the snow wasn't melting ... on the weather report, the fall was described as "snow flurries." At the moment, it is being described as a "blizzard."

Warren.

[LeftRightShoot]

Thanks mate,

My "alert not alarmed" level has just moved to dark orange!! Latest forecast I saw was snow today then clear.

Do you have a weather site better than elders for the main range? I am just using Charlottes and Thredbo Top and my gauge. Also chatting with folks at Jindy.

[WarrenH]

Yes, I do, an on the spot observer who I ring. The National Park and Wildlife Service Ranger, Mary ... phone (02) 6450 5600. I assure you Ranger Mary is very good. I talked to Ranger Mary just before I posted.

On the ABC news last evening, they mentioned a blizzard in the mountains, that is what prompted me to ring Ranger Mary this morning.

For the Northern spurs of the Alps and the ACT, I'm about 12 kilometres from The Blue Range, I use the real-time weather station of the Canberra Yacht Club. This site is good because it shows the current temperature and the chill factor, including the gust strengths and the site has the BOM weather radars ... http://www.canberrayachtclub.com.au/

Warren.

[LeftRightShoot]

Thank you so much.

[WarrenH]

You are most welcome. I hope that you saw that I included the Weather Station at the Canberra Yacht Club to my previous post, I'm a very slow editor. The Doppler Radar can be scaled to cover all of the NSW and ACT Alps.

I'm at only 560m ASL, if it doesn't snow here today, I'll be most surprised. With the wind chill, it is 2.6°C. With the wind now building it will be 0.0°C by midday.

An update, I didn't check the temperature at midday. I waited until the warmest part of the day at 2.50pm ... with the wind chill, it is 1.9°C.

Warren.

[north-north-west]

Well, the current forecast is for things to clear up on Saturday and good conditions Sunday and Monday. Grouse. Now I just have to decide which part of the Snowies to head for . . .

[LeftRightShoot]

lets just hope for a less than forecast dump tonight and tomorrow.

can anyone tell me the snow depth up on the main range?

anything > 15cm and its couch surfing for me!

north-north-west: wanna do hannels?

[north-north-west]

I have done Hannels and, as my knees have not forgotten it, am not going to do it again . . . yet.

I'll either head for Kiandra and do Tabletop to Mackeys, or Bullock Hill to Mt Nungar, or go up to Dead Horse Gap and do a circuit along Bob's and Chimneys Ridges, returning via Paddy Rush's and the Brindle Bull.
Or Hannels. It would be brilliant, but the last time I did it was Christmas '06, and I'm sure you remember what happened with the weather that day . . .

Surely the BoM site has snow depth reports?

[climberman]

BoM reports snowfalls. They also utilise the Snowy Hydro snow depth stations, where the data is collected weekly. The ski resorts often utilise their own measurements across the resorts, but these can be averages and also include man made snow.

This link http://ski.com.au/snowcams/australia/ns ... edbo4.html

shows you conditions at the top of Thredbo. I would add quite a bit for some sections of the Main Range. Oher areas will be bare due to wind battering. If I may..... I think walking on the Main Range is over until spring (unless there's 50mm of rain tonight - unlikely). I also feel that if you've got to ask this question perhaps you shouldn't be going at this time of year. It's an awesome time to be out but it's too deep for walking, and too shallow for fun XC / XCD / Randonee and possibly not yet consolidated enough for snowshoes. It snowed to around 1000m the other night.

[Robert 123]

18 Nov 2011 I have just climbed Hannels Spur and can say the track is well marked with Orange Triangles on trees and Pink Ribbons hanging from vegetation.

However it is so overgrown and thick that you need to be constantly protecting yourself against branches, unseen rocks and trees enough that both my sleeves on my shirt were ripped open and later after heavy rain my Jappara Jacket torn. The regrowth is enough to obscure any views and even from large outcrops I couldn't see much of the valley of Geehi.

I recommend everyone that does this track take a pair of secateurs and/or a small handsaw to cut/saw as you go to help those that follow.

I found it exhausting and constantly checked map & compass to confirm my location but since it rides the spur you can't go wrong if you constantly go up, I wouldn't want to come down this track.

Its not a large area but flat and grassy

Moiras flat Camp second night (1).JPG (102.19 KiB) Viewed 24806 times

But there are a couple of sections without any markers I could see, just push through up-hill

Overgrown track with pink ribbons.JPG (93.65 KiB) Viewed 24806 times

[Craig D]

Thanks for the update Robert. How long did it take to climb the spur in total? Were there many blackberries enroute?

[Robert 123]

It took about 11 hours walking time (one way) over three days and I didn't see any blackberries.

I recommend everyone that does this track take a pair of secateurs and/or a small handsaw to cut/saw as you go to help those that follow.

I fear that unless some clearing is done on this track it will be lost.

[Bri]

Robert, on 1.12.2011 appears, IMHO, to have a good idea re clearing Hannel's Spur Track before it disappears completely.

With various states promoting walk routes & encouraging visitors/tourists it seems it would be great to have this historical track as a bucket list item.

I intend to have a go at it in 2013 but would rather have a wider trail than experience, say, the caterpillars.

[Stew63]

I'm also 100% for re-cutting the Hannel's Spur track as well - perhaps we should have a poll - or a (discrete) working bee! I'm starting to doubt whether NPWS would ever recut it though - it's been 10years since the 2003 fires.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I am interested in doing this hike but it would be even more overgrown now, would it not ? .

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Has anyone been up this track recently? What is it like?

[Stew63]

Well, it's the way Strzelecki climbed Kosciuszko, and he went all the way up and back in one day including summiting Mount Townsend - though he got back well after dark and needed a signal fire down on Geehi Flats to guide him.

Actually I'll have to correct you there - Strzelecki did not climb/descend Hannel's Spur in only one day! Strzelecki did Hannel's Spur over 3 days and no 'signal fire' was lit down below on the Geehi Flats either - although McArthur did light a small fire up on The Abbotts near the top. Just a little confusion there...

I've just read Strzelecki's Ascent of Mount Kosciusko - 1840 by Lt. Colonel Hugh Powell G. Clews (1973)
Members of the climbing party: Strzelecki, James McArthur, 2 aboriginals - (Charlie Tara from the Goulburn Plains and 'Jackie' - a local who knew the local geography ***intimately) A further member James Riley remained with the packhorses way down pass Geehi Walls. The book was written using information garnered from James McArthurs diary and Strzelecki's few sketchy notes.

Day1: The climbing party of four left James Riley with the packhorses down past Geehi Walls and traversed/hiked upstream along the left side (NE side) of the Swampy Plains River. They forded Geehi 'Creek' near the base of Hannels Spur. They then decided to continue on and partially climbed Hannels Spur in the fading daylight, then moonlight on the first night - ascending up to about 2000ft before making camp and eating a Lyrebird for dinner.

Day2: The following day they continued the ascent, 'after 5 hours of steady climbing through the timber they came out in an open spot with water'. Due to lack of details in the diaries/notes It is not certain if this was Moira's Flat or Byatts Camp. They decided to leave their blankets/provisions here for their return that night to camp. (Moira's? Byatt's?) They continued on climbing, directly up over The Abbotts to Mt. Townsend - despite the local aborigine advising them of a much easier route around via Wilkinson Creek(?) When realising it would be a very long day the 2 aborigines were sent back to collect the blankets/provisions and meet at a designated camp site just below The Abbotts - meanwhile Strzelecki traversed across to Kosciuszko by himself to take readings with his survey equipment. McArthur leisurely strolled down from Townsend/The Abbotts in the fading light to the predetermined campsite somewhere just below The Abbotts. As no one had arrived at the designated campsite McArthur shouted, fired his gun then lit a small fire. The aboriginals had actually set up camp on the Wilkinson cirque just below The Abbotts nearby where there was more firewood available. McArthur located them. As it was dark the local aborigine was sent up in the direction of Kosc. to located Strzelecki who was brought back to camp safely. It's worth noting that Strzelecki had stumbled and fallen numerous times with his delicate survey equipment on the traverse up/down Kosc. It is believed his equipment may have been slightly damaged in one of those falls - that this is why he got inaccurate elevation readings of Kosciousko and declared Mt. Townsend the highest in Australia.

Day3: On the third day they descended back down Hannel's Spur, followed the Swampy Plains Creek downstream then continued on just past the Geehi Walls to where they had left their horses with James Riley at 'base camp'.

***For thousands of years many different aboriginal tribes from many points of the compass would climb/converge on the Kosciuszko high country from different directions for the summer to 'harvest' the Bogong Moths - a real delicacy. The various tribes would interact, share stories, settle differences etc up in the high country. The peoples from the Upper Murray/Indi areas (Wiradjuri, Jaitmatang and Ngargio tribes) would use the Hannel's Spur route to annually reach Byatts/Abbotts/Wilkinson Valley. This annual summer 'pilgrimage' ceased in about the 1850s.

For much more detail it's best to read Major Clew's book - one can even visit Major Clunes hut about 10km NW of Geehi Hut.

[north-north-west]

Thanks for that Stew. Someone needs to tell NSW P&W as I think they're where I got that info from.
That book would make for very interesting reading.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

What about a discrete track clearing trip?Is anyone interested? I want to hike this route but if it is going to be a excremental bush bash then I could imagine better ways to spend time in the KNP.

[GBW]

though he got back well after dark and needed a signal fire down on Geehi Flats to guide him.

I think that story relates to Eugene von Guerard when he sketched these...

EVG-foreground-sketch.jpg (36.78 KiB) Viewed 21395 times

[Stew63]

Considering the obvious cultural and historical significance of Hannels Spur it's a major shame that NPWS cannot and will not recut nor maintain this special track - even discreetly. Perhaps a special corridor though the Western Fall Wilderness could be declared? A real shame to let it disappear into the regrowth forever ...