Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskzo

[Lotsafreshair]

I was staggered to read a couple of tweets from a family member, that likened the current search in the Blue Mts to being "very close" to where Prabh is, and another tweet that was a comment to an ABC news story that stated the 200 searchers (at Leura) as "200 searchers seems a more appropriate response".

Conducting a large search on the outskirts of a major capital city with 4 million people and many resources on tap, to a search in an alpine area 500km from Sydney, in a town with a population of around 2000 - can simply not be compared.

[matagi]

Regarding Gary Tweddle, the man missing in the Blue Mountains:

As of 8:50am yesterday, according to the ABC News website:

Around 60 people including police, fire fighters and volunteers will today continue looking around Leura Falls, Wentworth Falls, Valley of Waters and the Jamison Valley.

On Friday July 19:

Volunteers from the State Emergency Service (SES) and 150 police will resume the search in bushland near the resort.

So whilst there were a large number of people searching initially, numbers have been scaled back subsequently.

[wayno]

volunteers have time limits on how long they can search for, they have jobs and often families that need them. so in a long search the no of searchers can drop off regardless of what the authorities plan

[colinm]

The search for Gary Tweddle began around 12 hours after he was lost. The search for Prabh Srawn started (was it) 120 hours after he was lost in a blizzard. Chalk and cheese.

[GPSGuided]

Whilst it's positive that the Canadian family has been hopeful for so long but it's also very sad that they are going way beyond reason and are hurting the innocents through their careless remarks. All very sad. Fingers crossed on the Blue Mtn search. A very odd way to disappear. Intoxicated?

[Travis22]

The search for Gary Tweddle began around 12 hours after he was lost. The search for Prabh Srawn started (was it) 120 hours after he was lost in a blizzard. Chalk and cheese.

I was going to post exactly that, on their FB page in reply to their useless post and well clearly ongoing negative feelings they have towards the hard working men and women involved in their original SAR operation, but i figured all it would mean is id be banned from their 'page'.

Travis.

[Nuts]

Would it make a big difference if the family was humble, thankful, appreciative .. yet still wanted to continue searching and people were willing to help?

[wayno]

if they were humble, then they'd possibly be more likely to listen to the authorities and may have given up the search by now...

[Strider]

Would it make a big difference if the family was humble, thankful, appreciative .. yet still wanted to continue searching and people were willing to help?

Yes. You get what you give.

[colinm]

Would it make a big difference if the family was humble, thankful, appreciative .. yet still wanted to continue searching and people were willing to help?

If they were humble in the face of the evident environmental challenges it would indicate a realistic appreciation of the difficulties of searching and survival. I think that may have made a big difference.

[SteveJ]

Yes. You get what you give.

I hope not for the sake of some folk on here

[colinm]

The family wasn't 'humble,thankful,appreciative,' because the story was built around understating the danger the missing person was subject to, and consequently the danger and difficulty of the official search, and consequently the official searchers.

Their understatement of the difficulty and danger of the area arose, not from any knowledge, but from anger and denial, and (possibly, more darkly) from a desire to bend people to their will.

One can be sympathetic toward someone's folly, particularly when it's caused by grief, without participating in it. I have tried to walk that fine line, and I have at least carefully considered everything I have posted. *&%$#! gets real when the folly extends to actively trying to expose third parties to real risk. I don't think one should be sympathetic toward that, nor sympathetic to those who would support the folly to that extent.

Appeals to emotion have no place when planning or considering a risky venture, they lead to group think and folies à deux.

[Nuts]

Must admit i'm still stuck with the same thoughts I had on page one, don't have an easy answer for emergency responders either.

[colinm]

Nuts, the more I look at it, I think there are two different problems being addressed.

* One is the technical problem of locating a missing person, or their remains. It is a logistical problem, and it may have no solution - there are no guarantees of success.

* The other is the social and psychological problem of giving a bunch of people, mad with grief, some solace and some way to process what they're going through.

The mistake being made is to think that a solution to the first problem solves the second problem. It doesn't. That's a mistake the family is making, that they can't possibly get on with grieving until the body is found. It's not healthy. It's not the kind of problem an SAR organisation is equipped to deal with, or even to properly conceptualise.

If I were first responder coordinator, I would want to immediately delegate the second problem to someone who is skilled in those kinds of problems - counsellor, chaplain etc. I would want to moderate conversations with the family via that person, so they were prepared to go on without 'closure,' if closure were not available, as it well might never be.

[wayno]

if the family still think continuing searching is the answer , i dont think they'll be wanting to listen to a councellor.
i dont think they care what anyone else thinks they only seem to care about their own view of the world and that doesnt appear to have changed much since they started the search...
rational people would have called off the search by now....

[GPSGuided]

Without insight, there would be no recovery for the family.

[Nuts]

The psychology of grief is well documented (not that i'm an expert, just the experience of a couple of inevitable life events. I'd imagine i would act differently but then guess we all would to some extent).. what's going on here is much more interesting. Getting back to insight though (not that the OP ever asked for it), being a bushwalkers forum, the insight was given early.. the weather, the terrain... what else? More than that what to do next time? Lobby facebook to take them down? Even here- not allow grieving people to register? Judge the way they conduct themselves- before possible editing or canning them? What?

[colinm]

This wasn't a grieving family reaching out for help. It was only part of a coordinated social media campaign. It had two objectives: scare up some talent (I can refer you to a long series of tweets to presumed aboriginal groups asking for native trackers ), and to try to put political/social pressure on SAR to force them to stay out after they'd decided to scale back.

The use to which the motivators put this particular site was not as a forum, but as a billboard in a likely neighborhood. The interaction was totally write-only from the OP, about as real an interaction as a tweet from @justinbieber.

So the first distinction I'd call for is whether the hypothetical future OP is seeking advice, interaction, genuine assistance, or just a place to switch on the megaphone.

[matagi]

The psychology of grief is well documented (not that i'm an expert, just the experience of a couple of inevitable life events. I'd imagine i would act differently but then guess we all would to some extent).. what's going on here is much more interesting. Getting back to insight though (not that the OP ever asked for it), being a bushwalkers forum, the insight was given early.. the weather, the terrain... what else? More than that what to do next time? Lobby facebook to take them down? Even here- not allow grieving people to register? Judge the way they conduct themselves- before possible editing or canning them? What?

None of the above, unless they are doing something which actively contravenes a law.

Grief manifests itself in different ways and not everyone goes through all the stages (although most people do), nor does everyone go through the stages in the same order. The bottom line with this family is that they are now exhibiting features of a maladaptive grief response and it is more apparent thanks to their use of social media. Hopefully there are suitably qualified people who are close to the family trying to help them get through this, because it seems their lack of insight has made them unreceptive to "reality checks" from strangers (the SAR people come under this category and so do the members of this forum). It has also lead them to make statements which are plain stupid (being able to survive on two grubs for weeks) and also offensive (some of the comments/accusations levelled at NSW Police, etc). Sure we can get annoyed/defensive/whatever about their comments, but I don't agree we should censor them.

[colinm]

Evidence for above claim (aboriginal trackers, not native trackers, but every bit as racist): https://twitter.com/manny_sandhu from 24th June.

Evidence of political/social manipulation campaign: https://twitter.com/Jimshina several posts like the following around 12th June: "@AndrewRobbMP Why does Australia hate #prabhsrawn such a good guy and your country is acting disgracefully! Step up and save Prabh"

Each of these two people claim to be family members, and it's pretty clear they're all acting in concert. And yes, that's me rebutting claims like "@nswpolice 200 searchers for a missing white male. For Canadian Indian #prabhsrawn you don't care! Hope you don't balls this one up!" from Jimshina.

[climberman]

The police will be polite and let it go through to the keeper. Perhaps we should too.

[colinm]

Sure we can get annoyed/defensive/whatever about their comments, but I don't agree we should censor them.

I'd agree if the same courtesy in dialogue was extended from their social media campaign. You have people making pretty outrageous imputations, then others soft-pedalling on them, acting in concert. All the while *any* kind of feedback which calls anything decided by the collective is censored as 'negative', with a really peurile "any time you say that, Jesus kills a kitten" kind of justification.

Maladaptive, I'd say so.

[matagi]

Sure we can get annoyed/defensive/whatever about their comments, but I don't agree we should censor them.

I'd agree if the same courtesy in dialogue was extended from their social media campaign. You have people making pretty outrageous imputations, then others soft-pedalling on them, acting in concert. All the while *any* kind of feedback which calls anything decided by the collective is censored as 'negative', with a really peurile "any time you say that, Jesus kills a kitten" kind of justification.

Maladaptive, I'd say so.

I guess I'm suggesting we should be the "bigger person" in this.

The maladaptive grief response notwithstanding, there is something seriously weird about all this. It could be a cultural thing, but to me the whole situation with the family is decidedly odd.

[SteveJ]

"what would Jesus do,"

"any time you say that, Jesus kills a kitten" kind of justification.

Colinm, your repeated mocking references too Jesus are offensive to those that believe in Christianity, there are appropriate ways to make your point.

[Strider]

The police will be polite and let it go through to the keeper. Perhaps we should too.

Will you feel the same way when a searcher goes missing?

[jford]

Its clear that this is one of the first interactions between SAR and social media. As so many others in politics, society, celebrity, science etc have found, social media changes almost everything. The narrative of SAR in the past has always been that the authorities are in control, grieving relatives are used in press conferences when their appearance could change the outcome, journalists are a conduit between command structures and the public, searchers are volunteers or professionals, but have no specific public voice. Social media changes all that and means anyone can put out press releases, be a journalist, put pressure on authorities. The usual channels of information are completely disrupted and that's abundantly clear here. It even means that national boundaries and distant timezones are irrelevant. I will admit to being fascinated and having a hard time looking away.

[jonnosan]

The police will be polite and let it go through to the keeper. Perhaps we should too.

If this forum had a 'like' button, I would have pressed it...

[climberman]

The police will be polite and let it go through to the keeper. Perhaps we should too.

Will you feel the same way when a searcher goes missing?

Dunno. No-one's forcing them to search. It's a difficult question isn't it? I resoundingly support the rights of people to go off and do dangerous and stupid things in the wilderness. Life in general is full of contradictions, and mine is no different. I want everyone to have an adventure of their choosing, to be safe, to come home, etc. Sometimes those things conflict. I've lost friends to the wild and when I see their photos while flicking through my photobucket stream I get sad and teary. I can't imagine how it would be, or how I would be, if it were my son, strong and handsome in the prime of his life.

I think giving a bit of space to people who've lost a son in a strange land they know not much about is reasonable. I can understand if others think differently or have a different gauge as to how much space they are prepared to give.

[perfectlydark]

Let me ask this..has anyone from the family flown down here to even help with logistical support? Its easy especially when greiving to be an armchair critic and cast out dispariging remarks..perhaps if soneone had beeb here and physically seen the efforts made they wouldnt be so harsh

[GPSGuided]

In a twisted society where money can almost buy anything, there should be no surprise with these episodes.