Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskzo

[colinm]

Its clear that this is one of the first interactions between SAR and social media. As so many others in politics, society, celebrity, science etc have found, social media changes almost everything.

You're so right, and you've identified something important. Canadian SAR are even looking into crowdsourcing for aerial image analysis to generate leads (incidentally.)

The narrative of SAR in the past has always been that the authorities are in control, grieving relatives are used in press conferences when their appearance could change the outcome, journalists are a conduit between command structures and the public, searchers are volunteers or professionals, but have no specific public voice.

The authoritative SAR voice has historically been mediated by authoritative media. If the SAR broadcast X, then it's true. If they say nothing, then we don't need to know. Those presumptions have gone now.

Social media changes all that and means anyone can put out press releases, be a journalist, put pressure on authorities. The usual channels of information are completely disrupted and that's abundantly clear here. It even means that national boundaries and distant timezones are irrelevant. I will admit to being fascinated and having a hard time looking away.

Don't forget disinformation. In this case, considerations of objective reality went right out the window. How does SAR, adapted to journalism, cope when one party to the melee starts broadcasting outright falsehoods? Saying nothing in public worked in this case, they kept a polite and dignified silence, but what if the social media campaign had been more effective? Do SAR have to rebut claims that they're racist (would have done more if the missing person had been of a different ethnicity) or that a person can survive for months in KNP on grubs, roots and 'abundant berries?'

And what of transparency? I'm persuaded that some decisions were made in this case on a pure cost*risk/benefit basis, and that's to be expected, but it's very hard for SAR to make those kinds of decisions in the full glare of publicity. Having to justify that calculation in public, to rebut claims of incompetence, racism, not caring, is going to hurt someone. Do the family really want to read the accurate probability of survival each morning? How is transparency going to effect SAR decision making, and their morale?

The role of the coroner as the final arbiter is usurped. Instead of waiting weeks or months until he/she sifts the evidence, takes careful consideration of testimony, and arrives at a determination, you can expect a steady stream of partisan assertions (as we've seen here) which make it hard (as a member of the public) not to pre-judge the case, not to be emotionally invested in an outcome ... because that's what the social media campaign is designed to do.

All really interesting questions raised by your observation.

[wayno]

someone stated earlier, it can be an indian believe that there is a price or everything and if you pay for work, you can then justify that you dont have to carry out that work yourself even if there looks to be some moral obligation that you should do the work
also you have the indian cast system, where you only do certain types of work yourself. this may not be the case in this situation, but indian culture has a different way of thinking than our own and their thinking may be influenced by their culture

[matagi]

Let me ask this..has anyone from the family flown down here to even help with logistical support? Its easy especially when greiving to be an armchair critic and cast out dispariging remarks..perhaps if soneone had beeb here and physically seen the efforts made they wouldnt be so harsh

Yes, there are several family members in Jindabyne who have been there since the early days of the search. It would seem (although I am not entirely sure of this) that they are the ones who have been responsible for the harshest criticisms, including letters to the Canadian High Commisioner attempting to get the Canadian government to intervene.

I suspect there has been a degree of miscommunication and misunderstanding on both sides (as is always the case in highly emotional situations).

[perfectlydark]

Thanks matagi, wasnt sure of that. In that case I am finding it very weird the harshness. Perhaps theres some evidence to justify what theyre saying? Either way I havnt seen any actual evidence that things were done wrong nor any "racism" which just seems to get used as an excuse if you dont get what you want these days (sorry if that offends anyone, just my 2c)

[colinm]

also you have the indian cast system, where you only do certain types of work yourself. this may not be the case in this situation, but indian culture has a different way of thinking than our own and their thinking may be influenced by their culture

These people are Sikh, not Hindu, so the caste system doesn't appear relevant. The other imputed broad indian cultural things, I have no opinion about. Certainly, I have difficulty understanding the way they went about things, but some of that could merely be personal/family culture.

[colinm]

In that case I am finding it very weird the harshness. Perhaps theres some evidence to justify what theyre saying?

I lost my cool about the time the family went from posting merely irrational hopes to deleting anything which wasn't 'positive' to posting outright and complete falsehoods calculated (it seems to me) to induce people who didn't know any better to join what had become a circus.

Either way I havnt seen any actual evidence that things were done wrong nor any "racism" which just seems to get used as an excuse if you dont get what you want these days (sorry if that offends anyone, just my 2c)

Yeah, unquestionably the victimhood/racism ploy was used, by one of the missing man's cousins, to try to whip up support. There was no justification for it, I think they just thought it might work to apply political pressure and whip up a storm. One of them even messaged Oprah on twitter to ask her to take up the 'cause.' for *&^%$# sake, just ... for *&^%$# sake.

[Strider]

I havnt seen any actual evidence that things were done wrong nor any "racism"

They accused NSW SAR of not properly searching because the victim was Indian.

[colinm]

Perhaps theres some evidence to justify what theyre saying?

Oh, that's the other sad thing. I suspect the family actually had some valid points, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and their valid issues were swept up in the whirlwind they were trying to make.

Some claims they've made, usefully troubling if true, were that the guy's laptop was missed under the seat of the hire car for several days, that it took several days to get the last mobile phone position data, and that the amount of bureaucracy was staggering.

Other claims they've made give one something to think about: NPWS wouldn't permit them (anyone?) to use search dogs, presumably because of the blanked ban on canids in national parks.

The shame of it is that the truly useful stuff got buried, mainly because it wasn't useful to their goal of inducing mass support for a futile search. I hope the Coroner will eventually extract the real value.

[Strider]

Missing a laptop for several days is nothing compared to not noticing a missing person for nearly a week...

[perfectlydark]

I havnt seen any actual evidence that things were done wrong nor any "racism"

They accused NSW SAR of not properly searching because the victim was Indian.

yeah but just saying it doesnt make it true. I could say I got served last at KFC cause my dads scottish all I want, doesnt make me right!

[colinm]

Missing a laptop for several days is nothing compared to not noticing a missing person for nearly a week...

Of course, you're right. Of course, the search was futile from day 1 (== day 6,) but if the person had been missing for a few hours, only, the laptop may have been significant.

[wayno]

Missing a laptop for several days is nothing compared to not noticing a missing person for nearly a week...

oh right so the searchers are supposed to know a laptop is hidden under the seat. theres a hang of a lot of things to do and places to look in a search... looking under the seat of a car for crucial objects isnt high on the list, but they still found it. you cant find everything you need to straight away, but even with the laptop they still havent found him.
i dont know if its a cultural thing or an individual thing all the ranting against authorities

[colinm]

i dont know if its a cultural thing or an individual thing all the ranting against authorities

Yeah, nor do I. I'm all for a good rant against the authorities, when it's justified, but these were more like tantrums than rants.

Mind you, I take your comments about Indian culture with a grain of salt, because it's well known that all Kiwis are racist.

[wayno]

i dont know if its a cultural thing or an individual thing all the ranting against authorities

Yeah, nor do I. I'm all for a good rant against the authorities, when it's justified, but these were more like tantrums than rants.

Mind you, I take your comments about Indian culture with a grain of salt, because it's well known that all Kiwis are racist.

[wander]

The dogs call is an interesting one.

The earliest possible insertion of dogs would have been 120 hours plus.

Dogs need to be used within 8 hours to be useful to find a live person.

Correct me if I am wrong on this data.

So it is really mute point about Parks issue of on management of dogs in the Park and how long it took to approve.

[Strider]

I havnt seen any actual evidence that things were done wrong nor any "racism"

They accused NSW SAR of not properly searching because the victim was Indian.

yeah but just saying it doesnt make it true. I could say I got served last at KFC cause my dads scottish all I want, doesnt make me right!

:lol:

[wayno]

i dont know if its a cultural thing or an individual thing all the ranting against authorities

Yeah, nor do I. I'm all for a good rant against the authorities, when it's justified, but these were more like tantrums than rants.

Mind you, I take your comments about Indian culture with a grain of salt, because it's well known that all Kiwis are racist.

i'm trying to consider different angles from where the family could be coming from in their thought processes.
culture can play a part in the way someone behaves, i don't think i'm being racist, i'm just considering possibly cultural differences.

[colinm]

it's well known that all Kiwis are racist.

I don't think i'm being racist, i'm just considering possibly cultural differences.

It was only intended as a joke. A meta-joke. "All Kiwis are racist" is racist.

[Lindsay]

Looking back at the start of this thread, the OP, one of the missing mans relatives, asked for people to carry out a private search, all expenses paid. It was gently explained by forum members with experience in SAR why this was not a good idea and why the search should be left to the proper authorities. Support and sympathy for the family was expressed by all who posted. The family ignored this advice and have not only set up a very ad-hoc and poorly organised private effort, but have criticised the SAR authorities and made very improper suggestions about racism on the part of those same authorities and Australians in general.

This behaviour has not endeared then to anyone. The best thing they could do now is go home and come to their with their loss quietly, instead of blaming everyone but themselves.

[climberman]

This behaviour has not endeared then to anyone. The best thing they could do now is go home and come to their with their loss quietly, instead of blaming everyone but themselves.

it may not have endeared them to me but I sort of understand where they are coming from.

[gayet]

With many questions as to the family's motives for their perceived attitude, I have to wonder if the family's actions are partly a response to some degree of guilt? and an attempt to shift blame from themselves? I do not accuse them of any wrong doing but:

What level of guilt may they feel for not starting a search earlier? There may have been no reason for them to be concerned earlier, so no reason to raise an alarm, yet hindsight can be cruel.
The earlier alarm may have brought about the result desired, but it didn't happen. Do they blame themselves for that, even though it wasn't a fault on their part, having no reason to worry earlier - hence trying to find somewhere or someone else to take the blame?

I believe they do need some help here but I am no counsellor, just some thoughts.

[wayno]

the family pretty much never really gave decent responses the issues raised on this thread, a couple of short reponses around the date they started the thread and that was it...
just seems they were determined to maintain the search regardless of criticism...

[blacksheep]

the family pretty much never really gave decent responses the issues raised on this thread, a couple of short reponses around the date they started the thread and that was it...
just seems they were determined to maintain the search regardless of criticism...

...exactly what most of us would want from our rescue party. Why would they spend effort appeasing forum strangers and others, when that time was considerably more valuable to efforts in recovering a lost loved one in inclement conditions?

[blacksheep]

the family pretty much never really gave decent responses the issues raised on this thread, a couple of short reponses around the date they started the thread and that was it...
just seems they were determined to maintain the search regardless of criticism...

...exactly what most of us would want from our rescue party initially... Why would they spend effort appeasing forum strangers and others, when that time was considerably more valuable to efforts in recovering a lost loved one in inclement conditions?

[blacksheep]

bring back the edit button.

[wayno]

yeah maybe initially. but their attitude has persisted now for two months, now it looks like sheer *&%$#! mindedness regardless of the facts

[colinm]

...exactly what most of us would want from our rescue party initially... Why would they spend effort appeasing forum strangers and others, when that time was considerably more valuable to efforts in recovering a lost loved one in inclement conditions?

Not me, boyo. I would want competence, not pig-headedness.

[blacksheep]

...exactly what most of us would want from our rescue party initially... Why would they spend effort appeasing forum strangers and others, when that time was considerably more valuable to efforts in recovering a lost loved one in inclement conditions?

Not me, boyo. I would want competence, not pig-headedness.

read what I wrote "boyo." You want people spending time responding to people on a web forum instead of expending energies towards a cause. I'm commenting on anything other than whether the initial resource had any merit in spending initial time to "give response to issues raised on this thread".. whether the ongoing/ non-waivering/desperateness of their efforts was above question may be another matter. But if you ever hear I'm in a tight spot, I'll forgive you bypassing bureaucracy if I'm found a day earlier.

[DarrenM]

Am I the only one that has the ability to ignore any irrelevant slander, race issues, and social media nonsense? I have not put any thought whatsoever into the negative side of the grieving family's ability to censor themselves from inappropriate verbal sprays. From day one I've only taken the information provided that can be useful in terms of searching.

Are we so caught up in who's right and who's wrong, while completely missing the point? Are we really so thin skinned? All this talk of putting lives at risk? Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything! All the BS flying around is unbelievable! If you don't want to be part of it....don't be.

All the drama seems to soften logic and peoples perception of reality.....on both sides of the fence. A young bloke went missing in KNP....that's all that matters.

[colinm]

You want people spending time responding to people on a web forum instead of expending energies towards a cause. I'm commenting on anything other than whether the initial resource had any merit in spending initial time to "give response to issues raised on this thread".. whether the ongoing/ non-waivering/desperateness of their efforts was above question may be another matter. But if you ever hear I'm in a tight spot, I'll forgive you bypassing bureaucracy if I'm found a day earlier.

Yeah, and you achieve that effective bypass by tweeting "why does australia hate <missing-person>" and asking Oprah to retweet?

I want competence, calm dedication, results orientation, ability to delegate, goal prioritization, all those things conspicuously lacking from the efforts I observed.

I would also like ability to identify motivate and utilize appropriate expertise and resources, which is the opposite of using this board as a billboard instead of a sounding board.

I know exactly who I want running my rescue, which is why I always brief them before I walk, unless they're walking with me, so it goes to next fallback, and down the line.