Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskzo

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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby bushwackt » Fri 26 Jul, 2013 2:52 am

gayet wrote:With many questions as to the family's motives for their perceived attitude, I have to wonder if the family's actions are partly a response to some degree of guilt? and an attempt to shift blame from themselves? I do not accuse them of any wrong doing but:

What level of guilt may they feel for not starting a search earlier? There may have been no reason for them to be concerned earlier, so no reason to raise an alarm, yet hindsight can be cruel.
The earlier alarm may have brought about the result desired, but it didn't happen. Do they blame themselves for that, even though it wasn't a fault on their part, having no reason to worry earlier - hence trying to find somewhere or someone else to take the blame?

I believe they do need some help here but I am no counsellor, just some thoughts.


I'm not a counselor either, nor a mind-reader. I do have experience with 'traumatic stress' (hence, a bit "wackt" but I also dearly enjoy the relief, serenity, mind-clearing workout of a good bush-trek). I'm also a Canadian observer and time-in as an volunteer-advocate for disabled veterans. This story peaked my interest as I've had some time on my hands, recovering from injury. The discussions, viewpoints and analysis here have been stimulating.

Being a bit of a 'heart-person' as well, I've been concerned about how the family is fairing and I have respect for many of the good points raised here, covering aspects of SAR, methodology, objectivity, professionals, volunteers, and as well, the critical analysis of social media uses and complications.

Anyway, from a "traumatic stress" perspective, I don't see this as a simple case of grief. It's sudden loss, happening out of no-where, a young fellow, a loved-one. Rocks one's sense of safety in the world, when things appeared to be flowing smoothly. Can be transferred over into feelings of distrust, of anyone involved, commenting of this story, participating in search, authorities, etc. Makes for bias, and selective-attention, because overwhelmed, in shock. Can lead to regression into 'magical thinking' as well, clinging tightly to hope, to cope. Cultural identity of 'victimization' can also be called into play (cultural collective memory, histories of colonialism, class consciousness, etc.) Taking action outwardly is one way to mitigate against overwhelming inwardly feelings of shock, helplessness. Fight/flight/freeze reactions-- they've chosen/responded with fight, take action, do something, can be an intense mode of operating in.

Traumatic-guilt/'survivor guilt'-- regrets, pain of not being there, not being alerted earlier-- but that itself, is not that abnormal for students to not be in contact with family regularly. Unresolved, unaddressed 'survivor guilt' is a concern, for risky behaviours, by loss of objectivity and by whoever else could get pulled in as well to assist, 'shared delusion' (as colinm suggested), non-professionals, not practiced at detachment or others on-side to exploit the situation for financial gains. I'd hope there are SAR-trained supervisors of volunteers and debriefs, per teams-- but are there? I was also concerned with the example of "Search for Prabh" video, like others here.

I happened to witness a twitter exchange a few nights ago, with what appeared to potentially be a member here. From what I observed, I didn't see it as "trolling". What is 'care' and 'support'?-- it's not necessarily going the path of total agreement to what is potentially dangerous conduct, or intepretations of things which can be driving reckless conduct, and/or increasing risks for it.

There could be aversions to counseling, grasping to 'spiritual pride' (for sense of power and control) can be one such form of aversion, likewise, ego, over-estimating one's own talents, abilities. There's also the concern of the social media campaign-- start something like that, can get brainwashed oneself. . . it can happen. I was unfamiliar with Sikh traditions, not a clue actually, but on a 'wiki' search, there are some psychological/spiritual tools which can be tapped into, which could be of benefit, should they choose to meditate, reflect on, for example, concept of Moh (attachment, including attachment to the idea needing to find the body for closure, (opening up to acceptance of the possibility it may not happen. . .?); what attachment to the act of searching can do, what the karmic effects of such actions [e.g. to discern when it's causing ill-health, logical, detached analysis; when to stop; when to 'let go') or Ahankhar which is ego, concerns issues of detachment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_beliefs. Humans are not perfect, regardless of traditions, it's learning experiences. But the family does seem aware of concept of meditation, meditation opportunities, the attention can also be selective, but how could I know, I don't-- we don't see what they are doing personally, or how often they practice meditation or if they do so that much. The Sikh beliefs are interesting, can recognize some root values, contained in other traditions, and even relate-able to principles which go into our laws, morality, etc.

But that's all just a surface glance. I've had access to Sanskrit meanings, via exposure to meditation teachers, yoga, etc (which have helped out a lot wrt to coping with brain-body deformations from chronic 'traumatic stress', lol).

And I guess a final point, I notice there is a doctor in the family, so he'd be familiar with concepts of 'triage', prioritization, and I'd think would have the cognitive capacity to also relate to issues of objectivity, science, methodology-- but again, with trauma reactions, fight/flight being activated (survival brain-- you can see it how snakes act, other animals-- humans, that biology can affect our thinking, cognitive capacities-- if carrying that stress, not giving stress breaks, meditation breaks to relieve stress, body-stress reactions to traumatic event, for objective, detached views, inner safety). I'd think he would be able to grasp SAR concepts, if he is able to take breaks from stress, to practice detachment views. He may also be aware of limitations of science, philosophy of science matters. But surely, by his own training and experience, he should also be able to understand issues of ethics (one life vs. others; financial constraints in practices, etc.).

I reflect on my own experiences in 'veteran advocacy' and work among the archetype that can manifest as "wounded healers" and the grace it takes to have both heart and to also step away from things to take care of oneself.

I assume the family is reading things from here, given the amount of hits for this topic. It gives a space to express things that can be difficult to express back at their page, (and that format, etc.)without intruding directly on their sense of safety, needing to keep that page safe, idk? This might be even less tolerable here, but as an experiment, I did try the meditation exercise with "Waheguru", with intention of 'sending energies of warmth' to Prabh (way earlier on), seeing candle in "third eye", spontaneous vision came to me, and spontaneous 'conversation' a part of myself came out to speak (not controlled by ego), which said, "you know you're family loves you very much" and a sense he could feel the energy of all the positive prayers happening all at once, and got a spontaneous 'reply', "ya, I know", and I felt a smile, the feeling was warm, light was warm like candlelight in dark, love reflected back to the collective of family, friends, others praying sending warmth, love, 'checking in'. I'm not a 'psychic', trained to avoid the mistake of 'mana', but I thought I'd just share that, as maybe a comforting thought for the families. I didn't sense attachment, longing, I sensed contentment, love (in the universal, expansive sort of way). I tried the meditation the next night, it was gone, 'lost the channel', it was 'gone' maybe, or that was enough. In Indian spiritual traditions there are concepts of liberation, freedom from the cycle of suffering (Mara). I think Prahb would have potential for that, having been a good warrior, loving family, strong individual, pursuing noble pursuits. Again, just positing comforting thoughts towards family.

Psychological explanation, my consciousness brings me comfort to the vicarious pain I feel for the loss and for the families, maybe. . . but it can mean many things, and different things to others (including others, who's patience I have tested here). There's also a concept or tool used in healing from traumatic loss, the use of 'healing metaphors', 'healing stories' (and that also seems reflected in Sikh tradition, collection of stories).

Anyway, preferred to share that 'anonymously', spiritual is personal, sacred (I ask to others here to simply overlook that part, avoid outer judgment ([think/judge as you like privately or in PM); nothing of useful debate on something that is simply subjective experience). I like trees, mountains, lakes, clouds too.

Anyway, this 'babble' is not intended for debate, just offering 'reflective insights', feelings, emotions, as others have here.
------------------------------------

For pragmatic debate: Dogs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_rescue_dog

I use wiki, knowing it's limitations, but they're useful for introductory purposes. It seems the family used a SAR dog with "air scent" training -- that means, doesn't require 'tracks' to follow and can be used after track scent is gone, and at later stages in a search, and for possibility of a person moving. Much depends on the dog/trainers specialization and training. Some SAR dogs are also trained in "HRD" as well, so can also detect a deceased person (which continues to emit microbes, etc.). I guess it all depends. Pragmatically, I have no idea how the dogs are about 'snakes'-- would have to be well-trained for that as well (just as a doggy-walker, dogs that chase frogs and such around here, something to play with). Where I hike, we don't have too many poisonous snakes up here-- we got bears, wolves, coyotes, etc. (all amazing creatures :-) ). Your wilderness does look beautiful, part of my interest as well-- some fantastic photography here. All the Best, Cheers.
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby wayno » Fri 26 Jul, 2013 9:04 am

thers no evidence of the family expressing guilt, they are just blaming the authorities
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby wayno » Fri 26 Jul, 2013 9:30 am

i get all that about the grief, but the length of time the families behaviour has gone on is over the top.. i think a fair percentage of the population would have calmed down by now and been thinking more rationally
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby bushwackt » Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:13 am

wayno wrote:thers no evidence of the family expressing guilt, they are just blaming the authorities


Yes, it's really hard to say from here, and not knowing the family personally (and I'm not a professional). But there is an interesting read, I came by some years ago, the author is Aphrodite Matsakis, and the book is called Trust After Trauma-- there's whole chapter on "traumatic guilt" and the actions of "blaming others" could parallel with the "competency guilt" pattern, so it's a form of projection (unconsciously, self-protection from overwhelming pain). The book follows a "Cognitive Behavioural/Processing" approach, rational exercises to re-evaluate things, perspectives from. Just saying the pattern, reminds me of that.

The grieving process may be delayed by the intensity of all the focus they've put to the searching, feelings displaced, sublimated, put aside. Escaping into 'intellect', analytical is one way of temporarily escaping one's own grief/feelings. Rhetorical question, but the question that comes to mind is where the 'searching' may need to take place and that may require a different kind of courage. I'm not sure also wrt to time and grief, whether there truly is an 'objective standard' for that. . .? I know in my own experiences, the sudden unexpected losses were different than ones with sometime to prepare for (e.g. extended illness, but know the likelihood it's coming; or old age/more natural causes).

It's hard to say. I don't know how the police are coping and all the others. One option is that if an organization feels out of their field with this one, they could try a consultation with someone with more specialization in that field for advice. Again, I hear the financial constraints as well. The real risks to the family with what's been going on are "burnout", "PTSD"-- it's more helpful, building resilience, preventing full-PTSD would to be able to return to, maintain 'normal routines', etc.

Thanks for your tolerance in letting me go off, out the box. Sometimes validation and empathy can be constructive though (without having to be 'appeasing', just keeping honest, respectful reality checks, and understanding the stress of the situation may have on trust--and I can see that both ways as well).
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:14 am

wayno wrote:i get all that about the grief, but the length of time the families behaviour has gone on is over the top.. i think a fair percentage of the population would have calmed down by now and been thinking more rationally

There are always those beyond the 2nd SD. We need to accommodate. :wink:
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby wayno » Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:18 am

Well my take on it is, the family are busy winding each other up encouraging each other and reinforcing each other in their approch, prolonging the search and their attitudes and behaviour and prolonging any likelihood they will change any of that.
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby Nuts » Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:23 am

bushwackt wrote:
Thanks for your tolerance in letting me go off, out the box. Sometimes validation and empathy can be constructive though (without having to be 'appeasing', just keeping honest, respectful reality checks, and understanding the stress of the situation may have on trust--and I can see that both ways as well).


Welcome bushwackt. I don't understand these situations on a deeper level, i suspect the more you personally experience the more you have thought things through. Knowing that much at least leads to thinking your contribution is as valid as any.

Anyhow.. good to see someone prepared to offer more than a few words to explain themselves on here.

(oh, and tolerance- that's expected, not a choice)
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby colinm » Fri 26 Jul, 2013 12:53 pm

bushwackt, I respect your approach to the problems. I hope the nobly-born family read something of it, and it sets them face-to-face with the clear light, or whatever sources of comfort and clarity they may have access to. I think you have deftly touched upon many salient points, delineated them with sensitivity and good reason, great empathy and understanding. You have managed to fish out many of the archetypes manifesting themselves in the family's journey. Well done, I commend your efforts.
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby bushwackt » Fri 26 Jul, 2013 12:58 pm

wayno wrote:Well my take on it is, the family are busy winding each other up encouraging each other and reinforcing each other in their approch, prolonging the search and their attitudes and behaviour and prolonging any likelihood they will change any of that.


That's definitely a possibility too, a contributing factor. In psych terms, I've heard that phenomenon referred to as "group think", social dynamics, co-creating a version of reality. And it's difficult to break away from when there's no tolerance of alternative views. Not uncommon either, with trauma is stunted thinking, all good/all bad, victim/persecutor/rescuer (Karpman Triangle); dichotomized, polarized thinking-- difficult with noticing the grey areas. Sometimes a need for certainty of some sort, when faced with the discomfort of uncertainty the ambiguity. If they're experienced meditators, they may be able to go within and sit with it. I also recall you giving a good perspective about the need to perhaps re-evaluate their positions at this point in time.

Throwing a few ideas out there, attempting to do so in a respectful way, maybe offers opportunities for family members to reflect on it and check it out and weigh it against their own experience-- maybe if they're fearlessly self-honest enough, humble enough, it could help clear things, idk? Not something anyone has direct control over. Kind of 'hit' and 'miss', maybe something resonates, maybe it doesn't.

@ GPSGuided-- lol :-) I really don't take myself that seriously either, I'm sort of taking an irreverent approach, I'm not super attached to any ideas I'm just putting out there. People are capable of being spiritual and rational, balancing and discerning among the two modes. "Lateral thinking". . .?

@ Nuts-- Thanks Nuts :-) Yeah, just alternative views, maybe taking a chance it can resonate, across cultural differences, but idk? Trust and safety are important wrt traumatized individuals, and I can see the progression of events, misunderstandings-- can they be learned from, put in perspective, detached. . . idk? Love your screen name, btw -- I approve!! :D Cheers :-)
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby slowshoe » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 1:07 am

Travis22 wrote:Im assuming most here have seen this, this video was posted on their facebook search page this morning.

I honestly dont know what to say, but i found the whole video sickening. I believe these are some of the people the family have brought out from Canada to search?

One would think they have never seen snow before.. What a complete and utter waste of money.

Im sure someone said earlier, but this in my eyes reinforces it, these 'searchers' looked to be enjoying their vacation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dka722XanfE&sns=fb

Travis.

Just to set some things straight about the above mentioned video, it was taken on the same day that Prabh went for his walk and went missing. It was posted so people could get an idea of what the weather was like went he set off.
The video was not of any search party, just a couple of guys doing an overnight walk at the same time.
Prabh's vehicle is not in the video as he parked at Charlotte's pass village near the hotel, and the persons in the video parked near the turning circle.
I know somebody that was involved in the private search and they have told me that quite a few people did not claim the stipend of $250 per day.

As this is my first post on this forum I hope I do not offend anyone.
So I apologise to Travis for quoting his post.
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby wayno » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 6:16 am

thanks for your factual input slowshoe, puts things in better perspective which is great
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby perfectlydark » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 7:40 am

Agree thanks for facts, but it is concearning the fact that the weather shown in the video is not what the bloke went missing in, nor likely to continue during the search. Bit misleading if that was their intention
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby colinm » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 10:05 am

Two videos were linked-to as part of the campaign, from FB. Sloeshoe refers to the first. The second (the one not involving huts) was posted on youtube and named (on youtube) 'Searching for Prabh.' One of the people in the first video was also in the second.
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby slowshoe » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 11:04 am

I am the mother of one of the private searchers and I am writing this on his behalf as he is back country on his holidays and he can't get internet access at this time, and when he gets back to civilisation he said that he will post everything he saw. He has sent me an SMS giving me the details and permission to post on his behalf.
As to the second video that was posted titled 'Searching for Prabh' it is correct that it is an actual search party going off to mount Sentinel and also building a fire on the grass near Charlotte pass, as to the effectiveness of the search it is his opinion that it was absolutely useless as they searched a snow covered area that was thoroughly searched by Police when it was not snow covered.
Colinm mentions the person in both videos it is correct that he is in both, but the first video he was on a walk with some mates, and the second video he was asked to come back by the family to search.
I have just sent my son a message and he will return to internet access tomorrow, then I am sure he will post and answer any questions that this forum may have.
So if the forum members do have specific questions post them and he will answer them if he can
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby wayno » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 11:23 am

thanks very much for volunteering this information slowshoe. your son may be able to fill in the gaps in this topic.
I'd like to ask if your son or anyone else fed back his opinion of their search being a waste of time to the organiser?
If so, what the feedback, if any was there from the organiser?
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby colinm » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 11:38 am

slowshoe wrote:I am the mother of one of the private searchers and I am writing this on his behalf as he is back country on his holidays and he can't get internet access at this time, and when he gets back to civilisation he said that he will post everything he saw. He has sent me an SMS giving me the details and permission to post on his behalf.

That's very generous of both you and him.

slowshoe wrote:As to the second video that was posted titled 'Searching for Prabh' it is correct that it is an actual search party going off to mount Sentinel and also building a fire on the grass near Charlotte pass, as to the effectiveness of the search it is his opinion that it was absolutely useless as they searched a snow covered area that was thoroughly searched by Police when it was not snow covered.

Yeah, there didn't appear to be much possible in the way of searching.

slowshoe wrote:Colinm mentions the person in both videos it is correct that he is in both, but the first video he was on a walk with some mates, and the second video he was asked to come back by the family to search.

Right. Yes. It was unfortunate that the first video was posted as part of the campaign in such a way as to suggest that it was part of a search, so I (for one) was initially pretty judgemental about what was seen on the video. Looked like they were having too much fun, anyway, for a search, but that's what you go on a hike for. Context is everything. Once the actual context was explained, it all became pretty normal (actually, I was wishing I was there :))

slowshoe wrote:I have just sent my son a message and he will return to internet access tomorrow, then I am sure he will post and answer any questions that this forum may have.
So if the forum members do have specific questions post them and he will answer them if he can

I have a question. Was he approached after the first video by a third party (not, or in addition to, the family,) and asked to join the search, or asked to contact a third party so that he could be asked?
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby Strider » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 1:43 pm

I have a question also. Why is the search continuing in unfavorable conditions, rather than waiting until after the melt to recover the body?
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby Onestepmore » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 6:44 pm

Thanks slowshow for clarifying some of those points. I had made some comments with a few queries on the YouTube sites but they had been deletetd.
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby Onestepmore » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 6:46 pm

Hmmm, why can't I edit my post to correct a couple of spelling typos?
The 'edit' button is missing
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby wayno » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 6:52 pm

Onestepmore wrote:Hmmm, why can't I edit my post to correct a couple of spelling typos?
The 'edit' button is missing


it's a sinister plot to show up tardy spellers.... and you've been caught red handed :?
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby Onestepmore » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 7:25 pm

Yours must be blistered by now Wayno :wink:
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby bushwackt » Sun 28 Jul, 2013 5:44 am

Woops, Colin, I missed your post. Thanks. I've seen your care in action (even if it's not what they want to hear atm, you've tried)-- I can see it motivated with a concern for all, including searchers, health of facebook rally, potential misunderstandings and the family. You are un-lazy :-)

I don't want to sidetrack from current discussion, as I too am very interested in slowshoe's account and her son's observations. Getting to explore facts, understanding, perspectives is very important.

Just to add, and if there are Gurdwara observers here, to check this article out: http://www.jsonline.com/features/religi ... 59796.html

Perhaps one of the supporters closer to the family and their community can track down, or consult with (advice in 'healthy supporting') a culturally appropriate grief/trauma counselor . . . There's a few stumbling blocks I can see potentially in the grief happening. Prayers to bring back safe and alive-- also like "Bargaining" stage of grief, "if I pray really hard, get others to pray, change will happen", and can be contributing to denial, and illusion/attachment to what is not real.

Anger/helplessness at mistakes made in investigation, might be blown out of proportion (fed by normal distrust, fear), and can be displaced into what could be turning out to be one great big karma-train-wreck. . . there might be feelings that need to be faced, so they can be let go of (or temporarily put aside even) for clearer sight to return. There are likely smart teachings in their traditions if they look in the right places, see the right things, appropriate the right tools. . .

This forum I see as useful for posing reality checks, because it for one, permits honesty and plurality of views and secondly a place for exploring the facts, the perspectives, expanding understanding of what's been going on. . .

I'll leave it at that for now, go back onto 'radio-silence-mode', maybe at a later time we can re-visit the grief topic. No point over-dissecting (and from limited view of things) but I can see the value of other people's honesty here, they've picked up on a lot, good questions, relevant insights and stories. I'ld really like to hear slowshoe and her son's perspective from the ground level. Maybe this assists debriefing. . . and re-evaluation. . .
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby wayno » Sun 28 Jul, 2013 5:54 am

"mistakes in searches" is a debateable topic.
its easy to sit in hindsite and criticise, such as missing a laptop under the seat of a car...
not everything is obvious to even highly trained searchers... theres a lot to consider when you are guessing where to search because you don't have accurate intentions.
when spring comes and the likelihood of finding the body goes up, hopefully the body will be somewhere that will be easily found...
if its where the snow is now, that will prove there was nothing to be found below the snow line and it wasnt a case of search and rescue making more mistakes in missing a body that could have been found
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby colinm » Sun 28 Jul, 2013 10:57 am

I disagree with some of that, wayno.

If the search command failed to do simple things, then those failures are significant even though they didn't change the outcome of this search. SAR is, by law, commanded by the NSWPF. The failures complained of are (a) not finding laptop for days, (b) not checking DNA on water bottle, (c) not getting telephone use coordinates for days. These failures, if they happened, are not SAR failures, but simple policing procedures that NSWPF should have been prepared for.

The significance is that such failures are avoidable, and are not conditioned by the difficulty of terrain, are well within the remit of NSWPF, would have been performed if this had been a murder investigation, and if repeated another time, in another SAR deployment, could lead to avoidable death.

I'm assuming, in this, that the family's critique is factually accurate. I have no personal knowledge of whether that is so.
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby wayno » Sun 28 Jul, 2013 11:12 am

yes, and sar operations arent nine to five operations, whoever is in charge is usually doing long hours working anti social hours. that has a factor in mistakes creeping into the operations, ....
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby wayno » Sun 28 Jul, 2013 11:19 am

actually i should say most if not all people on sar operations are doing long anti social hours and there is a great deal to consider and coordinate
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby colinm » Sun 28 Jul, 2013 11:26 am

Yeah, so the question would be how does one make it easier for the command to look after the multitude of details. That question won't be asked or answered unless there's an identifiable problem.
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby wayno » Sun 28 Jul, 2013 11:49 am

the mistakes will be patently obvious to those who were in control of the operation, they will be taking that into account and looking at ways of avoiding similar scenarios in the future... just because that hasnt been publicised doesnt mean it isnt happening
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby Nuts » Sun 28 Jul, 2013 12:00 pm

Yes.
colin, you seem awfully concerned.. I don't see how much else can be achieved by chewing the 2nd hand fat here, perhaps you should get involved? even if not to report back, just for the purpose of settling your mind?
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Re: Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskz

Postby colinm » Sun 28 Jul, 2013 2:16 pm

Nuts wrote:colin, you seem awfully concerned.. I don't see how much else can be achieved by chewing the 2nd hand fat here, perhaps you should get involved? even if not to report back, just for the purpose of settling your mind?


Taking your points and questions in order.

1) Awfully concerned. I'd characterise my concern as scholarly. I'm a student of institutional and other systemic dysfunction. Am I mistaken in getting that you don't approve?

2) I don't know what else can be achieved by chewing the fat here, therefore I am not convinced that nothing can be achieved. I expect diminishing returns. I note that this "fat-chewing" seems to give some readers discomfort. As I understand it, it's possible not to read the text, and by so doing to avoid any such discomfort, and so I am not greatly concerned for reader comfort (as their remedy is at hand.)

3) Getting involved in what, precisely?

4) I'm not aware of lacking peace of mind.
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