Private Search Party for missing bushwalker Mt Koscuiskzo

[wander]

It is very common for people to walk to K and back without letting anyone know to raise the alarm by a certain time. It looks like a very simple walk out to a lookout from CP rather than any thing extreme or risky. A similar scenario occured a couple of years ago, in Winter I think where a backpacker tourist skied out to K (pretty much no real clothing or equipment) and went missing for a day or so. He did survive, there was a large search. But again the fact he was missing only came up by accident rather than in response to an arrangement. Talking to some of the search team at the time their comment was this was common on the CP to K and T to K routes. And in good conditions you can see why people would not think twice about going out to K without making arrangements.

[jonnosan]

Another problem he would have faced is that being from the Northern Hemisphere, his sense of direction is reversed down here. In a whiteout, if he thought he was heading East he most probably would be heading west. I know that when I walk in the Northern hemisphere I have to be really vigilant about this and not trust my (generally very good) sense of direction.

Huh? You can't be serious right?

Yep, absolutely accurate. I often come across experienced walkers from the northern hemisphere who occasionally become turned around, and it's always a full 180 degrees off. It took me a while to work out why it was happening.

I seem to recall reading speculation that a similar thing happened to Jamie Neale? And as a result he was heading for the south/East cliffs of Narrowneck thinking it was the Katoomba cliffs?

[Turfa]

Another problem he would have faced is that being from the Northern Hemisphere, his sense of direction is reversed down here. In a whiteout, if he thought he was heading East he most probably would be heading west. I know that when I walk in the Northern hemisphere I have to be really vigilant about this and not trust my (generally very good) sense of direction.

Huh? You can't be serious right?

This is absolutely true...... I consider myself to have a fairly good sense of direction & always like to know my orientation, even when not walking. Whenever I am in the Northern Hemisphere I often find myself 180 degrees off if I don't pay close attention.

It is amazing how much you unconsciously rely on the assumption that the sun passes through the Northern part of the sky (in the Southern hemisphere) to orient yourself, and of course in the Nth hemisphere the direction is reversed.

[MrWalker]

Another problem he would have faced is that being from the Northern Hemisphere, his sense of direction is reversed down here. In a whiteout, if he thought he was heading East he most probably would be heading west. I know that when I walk in the Northern hemisphere I have to be really vigilant about this and not trust my (generally very good) sense of direction.

Huh? You can't be serious right?

I'm hopeless without a compass or GPS, but my wife has an amazingly good sense of direction. The only time I found her to be badly wrong was the first day after we arrived in north America.

[DarrenM]

There seems to be a massive wave of assumptions that anybody heading out searching must be foolish, unprepared, ignorant and unskilled.

I'd be very interested to hear about the people searching. With the exception of the family and friends themselves (no disrespect intended) I'd say most would be local, skilled and prepared teams. Painting the searchers with the same brush as the missing persons seems equally ignorant.

[wayno]

one news article said a couple of climbers had come from england specifically for the search.
i wouldnt say anybody must be foolish, but they are advertising so widely. they must be attracting a variety of people applying to be searchers, depends how they are vetting the searchers.

[Strider]

depends how they are vetting the searchers.

To do so effectively would require an extremely high level of knowledge - which they quite obviously don't have..

[wander]

How long did it take to finds Stephen Crean?

[kanangra]

As I recall not to the following spring thaw. Very sad. I had been thinking of this case as well.

K.

[wander]

From Wiki, which does note that it does not meet some criteria. Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Crean for the exact details.

Stephen Crean (1947 – August 1985) was an Australian public servant, who was the son of Frank Crean and brother of Simon Crean and David Crean, all politicians.
In August 1985, Stephen Crean set off from Charlotte Pass ski village, possibly intending to ski to the nearby Thredbo ski resort. It is believed that, as he traveled, Crean became lost in the falling snow and died of exposure. Crean's disappearance resulted in one of the most intensive searches undertaken in the Australian snowfields, but the search did not recover his body. Two years later, a skier found his body by chance, only a few kilometres from Charlotte Pass.
Crean's disappearance resulted in an extensive debate about the methodology of searching for missing persons, and also about requiring new safety regulations for skiers and walkers using remote areas.

[Turfa]

There seems to be a massive wave of assumptions that anybody heading out searching must be foolish, unprepared, ignorant and unskilled.

I'd be very interested to hear about the people searching. With the exception of the family and friends themselves (no disrespect intended) I'd say most would be local, skilled and prepared teams. Painting the searchers with the same brush as the missing persons seems equally ignorant.

I don't think anyone is saying that all the private searchers must be foolish & unprepared, but rather that posting a $100,000 reward on Facebook is a great way to encourage foolish, unprepared people to head out into a high risk area in an attempt to win "rescue Lotto"

[Strider]

There seems to be a massive wave of assumptions that anybody heading out searching must be foolish, unprepared, ignorant and unskilled.

I'd be very interested to hear about the people searching. With the exception of the family and friends themselves (no disrespect intended) I'd say most would be local, skilled and prepared teams. Painting the searchers with the same brush as the missing persons seems equally ignorant.

I don't think anyone is saying that all the private searchers must be foolish & unprepared, but rather that posting a $100,000 reward on Facebook is a great way to encourage foolish, unprepared people to head out into a high risk area in an attempt to win "rescue Lotto"

+1

I was going to say the exact same thing.

[DarrenM]

No.

Two separate issues and I agree with the point you guys are making, but the actual people on the ground searching differ from the ones blabbing about on Facebook pages and the like.

Absolutely, luring otherwise uninterested people into the equation could be dubious in theory but those people are generally unlikely to partake. Those types are likely to be filtered out when they step off the chair or spend the first half an hour trying to stay warm.

[Stew63]

I saw on the news just now a dozen members of the Canadian army are coming over to mount a search. I don't have any more details at this moment...

[GPSGuided]

I saw on the news just now a dozen members of the Canadian army are coming over to mount a search. I don't have any more details at this moment...

Are they using this as part of their wilderness survival training or do they have expertise in Australian bush search and rescue?

[jonnosan]

From http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2 ... pdate.html

Ten members of the Canadian Armed Forces are taking it upon themselves to head to Australia to search for Prabhdeep Srawn, who disappeared May 13 during a bushwalk in the Snowy Mountains southwest of the capital Canberra. The soldiers are not going in any official capacity with the Canadian Forces.

[Strider]

From http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2 ... pdate.html

Ten members of the Canadian Armed Forces are taking it upon themselves to head to Australia to search for Prabhdeep Srawn, who disappeared May 13 during a bushwalk in the Snowy Mountains southwest of the capital Canberra. The soldiers are not going in any official capacity with the Canadian Forces.

The amount of clueless comments on this article is almost overwhelming.

Check out this one:

look at the terrain, yes there are some trees, but, the terrain is not that rugged

[Occam]

Compared to Canada....

[Strider]

Compared to Canada....

They are basing their assumption upon the one photo included with the article.

[colinm]

A month without a fire. That's an awfully long time.

[wayno]

north america don't really have serious scrub do they? all the images and video i've seen show the ground pretty open under the trees. they wouldnt have to pour over every square metre of ground shoulder to shoulder to make sure they don't miss anything.
i did a SAR course, the instructuors dropped some carabiners into an area to be searched, we went in shoulder to shoulder rumaging through the scrub, we were definitely covering the same ground, not one carabiner was found... so theres no guarantee you'll find clues let alone the person you're looking for....

[Lindsay]

Among all the clueless comments on the Canadian site there was this one:

A man enters the wilderness with no iternary left behind, no GPS tracking device, no Satellite phone and alone. Contrary to anything that the Canadian Forces teaches and things that Wilderness experts say are just the basics for survival in any remote areas of the world and now more Canadians are risking their lives to find someone who's judgement is suspect.
I am sorry for the families loss but I personally, with over 40 years of service in the CF ,
feel that people must learn to take responsability for their actions and not expect or demand that someone else pick up the ball when they dropped it.
Rescuing skiers who intentionally go out of bounds to gain a thrill, single people sailing around the world, and inexperienced people trying to emulate what professionals do
on TV. I have loss to many good friends looking for and trying to repair other peoples mistakes.

Maybe the missing man should have paid more attention during his military survival training.

[Strider]

Maybe the missing man should have paid more attention during his military survival training.

It makes me wonder how much (if any?) of this training was solo.

[Giddy_up]

I've been following this thread for a while and whilst its a tragic turn of events for the family concerned the fact remains that some very basic principals of bush walking have been disregarded here and it looks like a terrible outcome is looming.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[wayno]

i dont recall reading anything where the police are quoted as saying what they think his survival chances are. but i'd imagine they'd have advised the relatives what they think those chances are or arent...

[jonnosan]

i dont recall reading anything where the police are quoted as saying what they think his survival chances are. but i'd imagine they'd have advised the relatives what they think those chances are or arent...

I don't believe the police would have called off their search if they thought there was a chance of still finding him alive.

[wayno]

yes thats about what i'd expect...

[Onestepmore]

Interview with his cousin Ruby Singh
I have a lot of sympathy for the family, but the safety of others searching can't be jeopardised
She repeatedly recounts how their efforts are being 'stonewalled' by Aust authorities
It's making it sound as if there is some conspiracy behind this that is thwarting their efforts, rather than them trying to safeguard the safety of searchers, and to avoid further people getting lost or injured in what has to be seen as a recovery mission now
http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2 ... ubled.html

I wish them the best of luck, and that they can achieve closure and peace.

[wayno]

if aus search and rescue is anything like NZ SAR, which i have no reason to believe it isnt, then i have the utmost respect for their work..

[matagi]

Interview with his cousin Ruby Singh
I have a lot of sympathy for the family, but the safety of others searching can't be jeopardised
She repeatedly recounts how their efforts are being 'stonewalled' by Aust authorities.

That is how it appears to them because they are looking at it from a different perspective and through the filter of emotion.

FWIW, I was at the Banff Film Festival screening in Lonnie last night and one of the short films shown made me stop and think. It was of an elderly man who was involved in SAR in his younger days. Anyway, at one point he is digging a snow cave and makes the comment that he had done searches and found people who had gone out with very little gear but were in good condition because they used what was around them and conversely had searched for people who were well prepared with gear but were found in poor condition because they didn't use what was around them.

So it is possible that this guy is sitting things out in a snow cave somewhere and is therefore still alive.