Bushwalk Australia

Due to the ever increasing bushfire threat I assume. Sad to see this become necessary. I always enjoy a camp fire.

I do hope this wasn't a knee jerk reaction to the kids who were caught with a bonfire about a month ago. However I suspect its more to do with the change in long term weather. Its getting hotter and drier

Details https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/vi ... cal-alerts

How are most bushwalkers using a gas stove going to satisfy the requirement - ‘There's an adequate supply of water (minimum of a bucket)’ ?

Depends on the size of the bucket, doesn't it? I've cooked on a rock in the middle of a creek during a TFB.
A bushwalker's gas or metho stove, properly supervised, on clear ground (preferably rock), is not a danger. It's just a matter of being careful.

north-north-west wrote:Depends on the size of the bucket, doesn't it?

I'd think they mean a 'normal house hold bucket' and they are about 9 litres.
Says nothing about having said bucket.. just the water.

Any creek with water in it should have at least 9 litres. So 'we' either camp by a creek or some water hole or carry a lot (9 litres?) of water.

I note this is for gas or electric, anything else is totally banned.
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Another factor in this 'policy' introduction could be the larger population making more use of the recreational areas - thus increasing the risk of a fire.

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Note! {edit - thought it was all .. not so}
The ban applies to some/most NSW National Parks .. not just the Blue Mountains.

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NSW State Forests also ban solid fuel fires on High Fire risk days in many state forests.
http://www.forestrycorporation.com.au/v ... -fire-bans
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Total Fire Bans .. in NSW
Sorry .. but I don't think any bushwalkers fire of any kind is allowed. Even a gas one, with lots water.
https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-informa ... -ban-rules

Henceforth I define my 250ml Ti cup to be a baby bucket...

GPSGuided wrote:Henceforth I define my 250ml Ti cup to be a baby bucket...

No .. you want to define it as a 'bucket'. No diminutive please

(I can see the ranger now "That is not a bucket, this is a bucket" - pointing to his 44 gallon drum)

Yes, same thing happened last year, except it's start a little earlier this year.

Also, I think previously they stated a 2L water requirement for fires with stoves, but this seems to have disappeared (or maybe I'm not remembering correctly).

The parks it appears to currently apply to include:

Blue Mountains National Park
Capertee National Park
Dharug National Park
Gardens of Stone National Park
Goulburn River National Park
Marrangaroo National Park
Munghorn Gap Nature Reserve
Paroo-Darling National Park
Parr State Conservation Area
Sturt National Park
Turon National Park
Wollemi National Park
Yengo National Park

Warin wrote:Total Fire Bans .. in NSW
Sorry .. but I don't think any bushwalkers fire of any kind is allowed. Even a gas one, with lots water.
https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-informa ... -ban-rules

I think it is just a park fire ban, not a Total Fire Ban. So, hence gas being allowed. Of course, on days when RFS declared a TOBAN, this would supersede the park fire ban, and mean no gas cooking.

IMO, this is a disappointing over-reaction. It would make far more sense for NPWS to allow fires in remote areas, and ban them at campgrounds, which is the opposite of what this ban does.
Why?
Number of times I (or bushwalkers I've been with) have left a campfire burning? 0
Number of times I've put out other camper's fires at major campgrounds? I lost count long ago.

I would be fine if they extended it to popular walking areas, like the Jamison Valley and the parts of the Grose not already covered by the fire ban. But banning fires in the whole park? Overkill.

As usual, the only people who will pay any attention to this are those who would have been least likely to cause problems, whereas yobbos will continue to have their conflagrations and fail to put them out properly. I think this is just another step in NSW NPWS' disappointing crusade to totally eliminate campfires. Having seen the (sanctioned) mess they made of Mount Solitary earlier this year, I hope they can see the irony...

(oh, and end rant)

Exactly what LachlanB said. There's no logical reason for prohibiting a fire on sand or rock at the river's edge.

I hope some national park escapes the ban, and will allow me to cook in a carbon-neutral way. Morton NP perhaps.

Deal with it. While enjoyable, campfires are completely unnecessary.

We all know this summer is going to be a difficult one with bushfires, so why risk it at all?

I do agree with you LachlanB, bushwalkers are going to be the ones likely to adhere to the rules but we aren’t above causing accidental fires ourselves.

Zapruda wrote:Deal with it.

Yep, and the easy way to deal with it seems to be to avoid the parks affected. It seems (atm) based on decisions of local NPWS offices. Bulga, Blue Mountains and Mudgee seem to be the main offices (as well as the standard ban in western NSW) banning fires. Still leaves plenty of parks, but I'd prefer not to be having my choices of where to walk being constrained for 8 months. Morton, Kanangra and Nattai beckon...

Zapruda wrote:While enjoyable, campfires are completely unnecessary.

Maybe for you they are, but for me, campfires are a fundamental part of the Australian bush.

Zapruda wrote:We all know this summer is going to be a difficult one with bushfires, so why risk it at all? (...) we aren’t above causing accidental fires ourselves.

I agree bushwalkers aren't perfect. I'm not.
But the ban sticks in my craw because it excludes campfires in NPWS campgrounds. Many campers do the right things, but campgrounds are a common source of escaped fires, and I'd suspect are a far higher risk than most bushwalkers. So why exclude them, while innocent bushwalkers have to suffer? The cynic in my could suggest a few reasons... I'd be happy to wear a greater incidence of shorter park bans and TOBANS, because as you say, it is shaping up to be a bad year. But I would like to suggest that most of us have the ability to understand what weather it is appropriate to light a fire in, and in what weather it isn't. If it's very hot or howling a gale, I'm not going to start a fire, fireban or not...

Realistically they have to put this out as is to achieve their fire prevention objectives. For those camping in remote areas, how will anyone know?

Zapruda wrote:Deal with it. While enjoyable, campfires are completely unnecessary. .

Could also say bushwalking is completely unnecessary. We have roads, cars and public transport we don’t need to walk through the bush for any purpose other than our enjoyment. Same with fires.. not necessary but are part of the enjoyment of being in the bush for many.

Having said that.. considering how little rain we have had and the warming of our climate the increasing risk of bushfires is beginning to concern me a bit.

For myself Id rather the government and its agencies didn’t immediately resort to prohibition to solve problems. Public education is the key here. There will always be idiots and I bet they don’t read the national parks alert page so wont even realise camp fires are now prohibited until next autumn.

Im still very annoyed they banned people walking national pass, wentworth pass and to vera falls. National Pass i did understand. but the others.. anyway off topic.

wildwanderer wrote:

Zapruda wrote:Deal with it. While enjoyable, campfires are completely unnecessary. .

Could also say bushwalking is completely unnecessary

Well, not on a bushwalking forum... This isn’t a campfire forum is it?

Public education is a great option but unfortunately we are a bit late for that. The bushfire season was moved to September this year instead of October. I think NPWS are doing what they can with the limited resources they have. Who wants to see another 2003 or 2007 again just because some selfish *&%$#! wants a campfire on a 20 degree night?

Zapruda wrote:

wildwanderer wrote:

Zapruda wrote:Deal with it. While enjoyable, campfires are completely unnecessary. .

Could also say bushwalking is completely unnecessary

Who wants to see another 2003 or 2007 again just because some selfish *&%$#! wants a campfire on a 20 degree night?

I think summer where it is 20 degrees at night is a different story. At that temp, a difused LED light will work fine and still allow a campfire like social experience which for many is a big part of enjoyment of overnight walking. Currently in the mountains its aprox 7C(less with windchill) at typical overnight walking dinner time (5.30 -6.30pm) A bit chilly so if you cant light a fire, you eat and go straight to bed. Or atleast thats been my experience when walking with people in cold temps who dont light fires. They walk, eat and go to bed. Makes for a very unsocial experience.

Id rather the prohbition be on campgrounds where the car camping taj mahals are better suited. Im sure they can power an electric heater with their genny's or atleast bring ample clothes. As others have said Ive never seen a remote campsite bushwalker not put out a fire. Im sure there have been cases but they would be in the very small minority compared to people at car camping sites.

wildwanderer wrote:I think summer where it is 20 degrees at night is a different story. At that temp, a difused LED light will work fine and still allow a campfire like social experience which for many is a big part of enjoyment of overnight walking. Currently in the mountains its aprox 7C(less with windchill) at typical overnight walking dinner time (5.30 -6.30pm) A bit chilly so if you cant light a fire, you eat and go straight to bed. Or atleast thats been my experience when walking with people in cold temps who dont light fires. They walk, eat and go to bed. Makes for a very unsocial experience.

Id rather the prohbition be on campgrounds where the car camping taj mahals are better suited. Im sure they can power an electric heater with their genny's or atleast bring ample clothes. As others have said Ive never seen a remote campsite bushwalker not put out a fire. Im sure there have been cases but they would be in the very small minority compared to people at car camping sites.

90% of my walking is in the alpine (year round) and I get by without fires. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Imo, if you can’t keep warm without a fire at 7 degrees then something’s not quite right with the clothes you are bringing. I’m saying that with a UL mindset too. Believe me, I am not looking to get in to an argument. I understand why people want a fire, I just think in the grand scheme of things it’s so insignificant and anything we can do to mitigate a fire is important.

I totally agree with you about campfires in designated campgrounds. It should be a total ban and not just walk in/wilderness spots.

Zapruda wrote:90% of my walking is in the alpine (year round) and I get by without fires. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Imo, if you can’t keep warm without a fire at 7 degrees then something’s not quite right with the clothes you are bringing. I’m saying that with a UL mindset too. Believe me, I am not looking to get in to an argument. I understand why people want a fire, I just think in the grand scheme of things it’s so insignificant and anything we can do to mitigate a fire is important.

I totally agree with you about campfires in designated campgrounds. It should be a total ban and not just walk in/wilderness spots.

I think much depends on metabolism, build and acclimatisation. Also, some people just feel the cold more than others. I’ve camped with plenty of groups where one person is wearing shorts and a light thermal and another person is sitting next to them wearing a down jacket, top and bottom thermals and beanie. And it’s the down jacket wearer who is still cold.

Anyway, I’ve said what I wanted to say on the prohibition point so won’t contribute any further on it.

GPSGuided wrote:...For those camping in remote areas, how will anyone know?

When I've had a campfire, I return to the car with my clothes smelling of smoke. I'm not aware of the smell, because I've become accustomed to it, but anyone else (e.g. a park ranger) would know immediately that I've had a fire.

Allchin09 wrote:The parks it appears to currently apply to include:

Blue Mountains National Park
Capertee National Park
Dharug National Park
Gardens of Stone National Park
Goulburn River National Park
Marrangaroo National Park
Munghorn Gap Nature Reserve
Paroo-Darling National Park
Parr State Conservation Area
Sturt National Park
Turon National Park
Wollemi National Park
Yengo National Park

Not kanangra boyd... Seems like a strange omission given the other ones listed? Funnily enough I was out in kanangra for the last few days, happily campfiring away, coz I hadn't seen this alert

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Nattai is not included either. I was in the Nattai a few weeks back and it's as dry as anywhere else so I am a bit surprised to see it excluded.

Michael.

I assume its places that have more casual bushwalkers/remote campers that are being targeted.

Im actually quite annoyed that all the campgrounds are excluded from this ban. Newnes Campground! come on.. the 4wd campground on the other side of the river is right in the bush and its a very dry area.. those 4wders use up more firewood per person per night than a russian family in siberia would use all winter! Their chainsaws are going from dawn to dusk and then some.

I hope bushwalking nsw is on the case here to advocate that the restrictions should be shared equally? It really is discrimination.. pehaps trying to avoid annoying the 4wd lobby and shooters/fishermans party?

ribuck wrote:When I've had a campfire, I return to the car with my clothes smelling of smoke. I'm not aware of the smell, because I've become accustomed to it, but anyone else (e.g. a park ranger) would know immediately that I've had a fire.

Really? Your fire and smoke must be bigger than mine...

Not advocating actions against the ban, but suspect some out there will. Similar to drone ban in NP. Suspect some would still fly them in more remote areas.

michael_p wrote:Nattai is not included either. I was in the Nattai a few weeks back and it's as dry as anywhere else so I am a bit surprised to see it excluded.

Walk_fat boy_walk wrote:Not kanangra boyd... Seems like a strange omission given the other ones listed? Funnily enough I was out in kanangra for the last few days, happily campfiring away, coz I hadn't seen this alert

If you look at the parks that have bans, they're all managed by one of three NPWS Offices: Blue Mountains, Mudgee and Bulga.
Nattai is managed from Mt Annan, and Kanangra from Oberon.
Hence, probably why they haven't had bans. Lets hope they don't spread...

Totally agree that the larger risk is at official campgrounds with the Weekend-Joe who is likely to be less aware and going to have a big campfire coz bigger is better and it's their special occasion/chance to camp out.

(on a hot windy day and not put it out completely! or any other weather, see it all the time even of 'guided' groups)

GPSGuided wrote:Your fire and smoke must be bigger than mine...

LOL, if I boil the billy on my little twig-burning stove, I can't smell smoke on my clothes when I get home. But next morning, when I'm re-sensitized to the smell, it's so strong.

Walk_fat boy_walk wrote:Not kanangra boyd... Seems like a strange omission given the other ones listed? Funnily enough I was out in kanangra for the last few days, happily campfiring away, coz I hadn't seen this alert

Well it looks like NPWS may read this forum as Kanangra-Boyd was added to the list on 11th Sep...

Allchin09 wrote:Well it looks like NPWS may read this forum

Time to close this topic before it spreads.

Allchin09 wrote:Well it looks like NPWS may read this forum as Kanangra-Boyd was added to the list on 11th Sep...

Ahh... Cr@p

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Maybe I'm gonna have to get me one of these "propane campfires":

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Costway-Outdoo ... s+fire+pit

Shame about the extra 10kg+ in my backpack, and the extra carbon.

ribuck wrote:Maybe I'm gonna have to get me one of these "propane campfires"

Nice find.
I note how the pictures don't show the gas cannister.
Maybe parks could put them in their camp and picnic grounds to stop people having solid fires there.
Would reduce the bush fire risks

(Note: Flame colour varies from shot to shot... think the yellow ones are more truthfull.)