Pots and Pans Spur

[kanangra]

Anyone know where this leaves the main track down to the Coxs via Mt Ironpot and Ironmonger. There is a cairn at the Ironmonger turn off but I've never noticed another to point the way to Pots and Pans?

K.

[melinda]

Hi Kanangra,
This post looks so lonely here by itself.
So...
I haven't been along Ironpot/TInpot for a few months.
And although Ironmonger spur cairn is clearly in my mind.
Can't say I can remember another cairn out there.
However I do recall going over the Frying Pan on Breakfast Creek a while ago (last year so memory might be a bit dodgy) and I'm pretty sure there was a track/footpad coming down the spur there.
Melinda
(PS According to the Dunphy 'Gangerang' sketch map Pots and Pans Spur goes down to Breakfast Creek, not the Coxs. Have I got this all wrong or confused somehow???)

[kanangra]

No you are spot on. Pots and Pans goes down to Breakfast Ck at Frying Pan Flat. You are right the Ironmomger turn off is clearly marked with a cairn but I have not noticed any cairn marking the start of Pots and Pans Spur. It looks like i will just have to investigate next time i'm up there. thanks for not leaving the post unanswered.

K.

[rcaffin]

Anyone know where this leaves the main track down to the Coxs via Mt Ironpot and Ironmonger. There is a cairn at the Ironmonger turn off but I've never noticed another to point the way to Pots and Pans?

Don't remember any cairn. We just used map and compass.

Cheers

[johnw]

I own a copy of Day Walks in Therabulat Country by Michael Keats and vaguely recalled a mention of Pots and Pans Spur, so I looked it up. There is a reference on page 96, relating to a walk starting at Carlons (Dunphy CP) and initially going over Ironpot Ridge, then Tinpot Mtn and beyond. Anyway in the list of grid references is "Pots and Pans Trackhead" at GR 413572. I've walked through there but can't remember seeing a track or cairn, but then I wasn't looking for them.

[kanangra]

Thanks John I'll look that ref. up on the map when I get home tonight.

K.

[kanangra]

Funny, having looked at the map that reference would appear to send you straight into Ironmonger Gully??

K.

[johnw]

Funny, having looked at the map that reference would appear to send you straight into Ironmonger Gully??

Yes, I had a look at the Jenolan 1:25000 and would agree with that. Maybe it starts there and deviates onto the spur? Dunno. Unfortunately the book provides no more info, at least that I've found so far (I'm assuming no error). I also checked the Dunphy Gangerang map which shows that immediate area as a small plateau bordered by low cliffs. I do remember cliffs around there on the northern side after ascending Ironmonger Spur but can't clearly recall what was south, other than steep hills and forest. A logical route to me looks a little east of Ironmonger Gully; but maybe there's a walkable defile or similar at the stated GR which breaches a cliffline? A bit speculative I know.

[kanangra]

There's only one way to resolve this: field work! Now for some spare time.

K.

[rcaffin]

I own a copy of Day Walks in Therabulat Country by Michael Keats and vaguely recalled a mention of Pots and Pans Spur, so I looked it up. There is a reference on page 96, relating to a walk starting at Carlons (Dunphy CP) and initially going over Ironpot Ridge, then Tinpot Mtn and beyond. Anyway in the list of grid references is "Pots and Pans Trackhead" at GR 413572. I've walked through there but can't remember seeing a track or cairn, but then I wasn't looking for them.

OOPS! My apologies about that. I edited the book but didn't check the GR. The one quoted above is definitely wrong.

Find E end of Ironpot Mountain and start heading south. No track, just look for the watershed. It's kinda obvious. If there is a bit of a track these days, good luck.

Cheers

[kanangra]

no worries these things happen in the best of families. it is still a very good book.

k.

[johnw]

I own a copy of Day Walks in Therabulat Country by Michael Keats and vaguely recalled a mention of Pots and Pans Spur, so I looked it up. There is a reference on page 96, relating to a walk starting at Carlons (Dunphy CP) and initially going over Ironpot Ridge, then Tinpot Mtn and beyond. Anyway in the list of grid references is "Pots and Pans Trackhead" at GR 413572. I've walked through there but can't remember seeing a track or cairn, but then I wasn't looking for them.

OOPS! My apologies about that. I edited the book but didn't check the GR. The one quoted above is definitely wrong.

Find E end of Ironpot Mountain and start heading south. No track, just look for the watershed. It's kinda obvious. If there is a bit of a track these days, good luck.

no worries these things happen in the best of families. it is still a very good book.

Likewise thanks for the correction Roger. The book is very good but I've yet to make full use of it, except to review the handful of walks I've done around there before getting it. I noticed that you provided a number of the photos, what camera did you use?

[rcaffin]

Likewise thanks for the correction Roger. The book is very good but I've yet to make full use of it, except to review the handful of walks I've done around there before getting it. I noticed that you provided a number of the photos, what camera did you use?

Those photos were taken with a Canon A95.
Funny story there: recently it started making the sky bright pink. This seemed a trifle wrong to me. A member of Backpacking Light told me that Canon are offering a free repair on the sensor as Sony stuffed the sealing of it. He was right: Canon replaced the sensor on my 6-year old camera for free, without question. I was impressed!
However, it was too late: I now own (as well) a Canon G11. It's rather nice ...

Cheers

[johnw]

...I noticed that you provided a number of the photos, what camera did you use?

Those photos were taken with a Canon A95.
Funny story there: recently it started making the sky bright pink. This seemed a trifle wrong to me. A member of Backpacking Light told me that Canon are offering a free repair on the sensor as Sony stuffed the sealing of it. He was right: Canon replaced the sensor on my 6-year old camera for free, without question. I was impressed!
However, it was too late: I now own (as well) a Canon G11. It's rather nice ...

An oldie but a goodie by the sound of things. Similar story. I have an old A70, circa 2003, the first digital camera I bought. Loved it, but I suspect the CCD has failed as I remember reading somewhere that a batch of them had that problem. Supposedly Canon would fix the problem free but I'm dubious about paying postage etc on such an old/outdated camera only to have them reject the claim. I was admiring a G11 the other day. A bit more bulky than the smaller powershots but I imagine better manual control than most current models.

[rcaffin]

An oldie but a goodie by the sound of things. Similar story. I have an old A70, circa 2003, the first digital camera I bought. Loved it, but I suspect the CCD has failed as I remember reading somewhere that a batch of them had that problem. Supposedly Canon would fix the problem free but I'm dubious about paying postage etc on such an old/outdated camera only to have them reject the claim. I was admiring a G11 the other day. A bit more bulky than the smaller powershots but I imagine better manual control than most current models.

Ring them in advance.

The G11 - yeah, nice. Canon has stopped competing in the megapixel race and started refining the camera. Lower noise levels and much easier to use than the A70/A95, imho.

Cheers

[johnw]

An oldie but a goodie by the sound of things. Similar story. I have an old A70, circa 2003, the first digital camera I bought. Loved it, but I suspect the CCD has failed as I remember reading somewhere that a batch of them had that problem. Supposedly Canon would fix the problem free but I'm dubious about paying postage etc on such an old/outdated camera only to have them reject the claim. I was admiring a G11 the other day. A bit more bulky than the smaller powershots but I imagine better manual control than most current models.

Ring them in advance.

Good point, thanks. I'll have to dig up the research I did previously on this fault.

The G11 - yeah, nice. Canon has stopped competing in the megapixel race and started refining the camera. Lower noise levels and much easier to use than the A70/A95, imho.

Yes, more megapixels doesn't necesssarily mean better shots. Less noise and better optics are good objectives. Canon do make some nice P&S digicams but I don't like the way they've been "dumbing down" many models in recent years. I'm not the world's greatest photographer but do like to have full manual control. By all means have the various auto functions but provide manual as well.

[melinda]

Kanangra,
Came up Pots and Pans Spur from Breakfast Creek yesterday.
Definite track.
Too tired at the top to think about taking a grid reference!

[kanangra]

Melinda,

that is good to know. Certainly looks steep. Was it hard to find the track on the opposite side of the creek? Does it start opposite Frying Pan flat?

Steve

[melinda]

Hi Kanangra,
Funnily enough we didn't come up from Frying Pan flat.
We came down Cattledog Ridge and more or less crossed directly from there.
Sort of contoured up and and picked up the ridge. Wasn't too hard.
(Was with a leader who knew the route well.)
Steep at the bottom and then eased up a bit about a third of the way up. (Big hill!!!)

[johnw]

OK, curiosity got the better of me. So, on Saturday I did my own bit of research on this. Drove to Carlons Farm intent on doing one or two short walks. Initially just went out to Bellbird Point as I'd never been there, despite passing the turnoff on several previous occasions. While having a late lunch we considered whether a descent was possible from there to Breakfast Creek. Looked doable but a bit of a mission and we concluded it was too late in the afternoon to try. But I looked down longingly at Carlon Creek and hatched a plan to go back to the carpark/camping area and walk down the creek to the junction with Breakfast Ck, then turn right and complete a circuit via Pots and Pans Spur. I knew it wouldn't take too long to get down Carlon as we'd done it several times previously. Though, not having visited the area for a few years, I didn't realise how large and vigorous the stinging nettles have become . Fortunately long trousers and sleeves kept us mostly unscathed. From the junction with Carlon Ck we walked west along Breakfast Creek for a while until locating the entrance to Black Horse Creek and the easternmost branch of Pots and Pans Spur opposite on the north bank of Breakfast Ck. I found what seemed like a footpad initially but eventually it deteriorated and seemed to head into the gully to the east. There were other similar tracks around and I decided they were most likely animal pads given their erratic course. We settled on not bothering further with idea of finding a pad and simply maintained a route straight up the centre of the spur. This was the correct course. It is really a negotiable route, open and easy to follow (but steep of course). Just stay in the middle. There were occasional signs of foot traffic in places. Good views on the way up. Significant features are a nice open saddle higher up and a rocky bluff towards the top that you have to negotiate. We found a defile on its eastern side that made for a short easy climb up and looked like others had also been that way. We exited the spur onto the Ironpot Mtn/Ridge track at GR 416570 (according to my GPS, which I haven't used for ages and was having trouble tracking satellites until I reset it to defaults). On the topo that puts you about ~200m south of the track, so one of them is inaccurate. There is a tree right at the spot I marked the waypoint. In the interest of accuracy, if anyone is passing through there please let us know what you find at that GR . Anyway we finished the walk just before dark and the mystery of Pots and Pans Spur (if there ever was one) was solved for me.

[tom_brennan]

I suppose it depends on where you decide the bottom of Pots and Pans Spur is. I climbed up it a couple of weeks ago starting from on top of the Frying Pan (rather than opposite Black Horse Creek). There was a vague track at the bottom, which petered out fairly quickly. Took the same route through the outcrops at the top. Waypoint at the junction with the Ironpot Mountain track is MGA 416570, so you'll probably find that the track is marked incorrectly on the topo.

[johnw]

I suppose it depends on where you decide the bottom of Pots and Pans Spur is. I climbed up it a couple of weeks ago starting from on top of the Frying Pan (rather than opposite Black Horse Creek). There was a vague track at the bottom, which petered out fairly quickly. Took the same route through the outcrops at the top. Waypoint at the junction with the Ironpot Mountain track is MGA 416570, so you'll probably find that the track is marked incorrectly on the topo.

Hi Tom,
Yes, good points. Sorry about that, a bit inconsiderate not to acknowledge more than one lower access possibility . The spur does have that forked thing going on at the bottom, with the longer Panhandle/Frying Pan route coming in on the western side and the Blackhorse Creek one that I took to the east. I've updated my post above to clarify. My immediate thoughts were also that the Jenolan topo is incorrect but I'm always hesitant to make those claims. I rarely use my little etrex and only took it on Saturday to potentially try and de-mystify some locations for myself. Given the problems I had getting it to work it put doubts in my mind.

[tom_brennan]

GPS can sometimes be a bit iffy, but given a choice between the track on the map, and the GPS, I'd generally take the GPS. The foot tracks on maps are notoriously poorly mapped.

[kanangra]

Thanks guys. Have noted and will check out myself hopefully in the not too far distant future.

k.

[rcaffin]

Bellbird Point ... we considered whether a descent was possible from there to Breakfast Creek.

Yes, not hard.

I found what seemed like a footpad initially but eventually it deteriorated and seemed to head into the gully to the east.

Old cattle and goat tracks. Plenty of them!

Yep, use the obvious spur.

Cheers

[johnw]

Bellbird Point ... we considered whether a descent was possible from there to Breakfast Creek.

Yes, not hard.

I found what seemed like a footpad initially but eventually it deteriorated and seemed to head into the gully to the east.

Old cattle and goat tracks. Plenty of them!

Yep, use the obvious spur.

Cheers

Thanks very much Roger, your expertise is always welcome. I also started to read references to descending Bellbird Point in Michael Keats' book but haven't got back to it as yet. The term goat track probably fits some of the pads I found , I was thinking wombats and/or horses as well.

[kanangra]

Well it has taken the best part of 3 years but I menaged to get in here on the weekend. As others have said there is no real pad but at the moment there is a small ring of rocks with stick marking where the track down Pots and Pans Spur leaves the track out over Ironpot Mt. From here we followed the spur and it came out on Breakfast Ck right opposite Black Horse Ck. From there it was a short walk down to Frying Pan Flat where we camped the night. The creek was mostly dry with a few scattered pools.

K.