Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

[Xplora]

It is common for these platforms to be sold out but usually to people who are scared to pitch on the ground. I would rather use one as a table instead of trying to secure my tent to it. We can only hope the money is returned to the Park in a direct way but that is not likely.

[scroggin]

It cost $800,000 to build the platforms, there are 10 sites costing $30 a night a site. Lets be generous and assume each site is booked on average for the year 100 times. It will still take over 25 years to recoup the money. It doesn't make sense

[Lophophaps]

Is that for ten (10) platforms at Cope and Dibbins Huts? Wow! I wonder if they went to tender, and if there was a cost-benefit analysis. Scroggin, can you please advise me of the source of the $800,000 figure?

Given that:
1 Cope Hut access is easier than Tawonga Huts;
2 Diamantina Spur access is about the same as Dibbins Hut (presumably both by helicopter); and
3 Inflation will have added, say, 5%,
I suggest that the cost for the new platforms at Tawonga Huts and Diamantina Spur on the Falls-Hotham walk will cost around $1 million.

How long will a platform last? If it's less than 25 years then it's a rubbish investment, even taking into account the economic multiplier of local spending by the walkers. Such spending will typically be fuel for the car and person, perhaps $80 or so per car of three people. Say two people per platform, 20 per night, 100 nights, 2000 people, 700 cars, by $80 = $56,000 a year. It could be a little more or a lot less; fuel costs less on the Hume Freeway. It was rare for my group to stop at surrounding towns.

Maintenance needs to be factored in as well, which will to some extent offset the local spending.

Add 6-7 kilometres of new tracks costing perhaps $1-1-5 million and Falls-Hotham costs $2-2.5 million. There is no way that this can be recovered by a handful of users. Once word gets around, walkers will generally avoid the platforms. Some people don't like ground camping. I would love to see audited figures showing all costs and income for the existing platforms for FY14-16 inclusive.

[scroggin]

Source for the $800,000

http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/1944 ... ig-things/

[Lophophaps]

Scroggin, thanks for the link. The $800,000 includes signs and track development. There's a PV sign at Cope hut near the platforms. I cannot recall one near Dibbins Hut. I cannot see much if anything being spent on tracks. The only new track that I'm aware of is from Cope Hut to the platforms, and that would have formed naturally during construction. My figures are hence slightly wrong but within error bars.

Dr Sykes alleges that there's degradation due to camping. The only place i can think of where this is so is at Federation Hut. He says it's more comfortable on the platforms as there's no breeze from below. I've never had a problem with camping on the ground.

“He said it could include looking at accommodation options along the track.” Oh, dear. He said “Some are happy to rough it with a stretcher and a sleeping bag but then there are others who are happy to be out in the elements but have the comforts of home. It widens the appeal if you have that option available.” What is this, Three Capes?

Dr Sykes said the upgrade and master plan will lead to economic benefits. Um, yes, but the cost is huge, woeful return on investment. Dr Sykes said “It will be measured in millions and millions of dollars no question about that.” Nope.

[Xplora]

The border mail story is open for comment. I just did. I suggest others do so as well.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Has anyone heard anything about this loopy scheme lately ?

[Lophophaps]

Has anyone heard anything about this loopy scheme lately ?

Nothing. The process has been much delayed. Interestingly, Bushwalk Victoria and VNPA are involved. I asked both for comment so as to follow their direction, but did not receive a reply from either. Hence, I entertain somewhat higher hopes of a good result than before. It now seems that the main flaw was the poor concept communication rather than the udnerlying intentions. PV are good people.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

What are the chances of PV building a decent hut at the top of the T spur where Maddison's hut once stood? .Using the rebuild design of Weston's hut , it would be very handy in all weather and all seasons.
The same question applies to the site at the Bon Accord hut ruins site. It would take the pressure off Cleve Cole Hut and Federation shut which are very popular .

[Lophophaps]

What are the chances of PV building a decent hut at the top of the T spur where Maddison's hut once stood? .Using the rebuild design of Weston's hut , it would be very handy in all weather and all seasons.
The same question applies to the site at the Bon Accord hut ruins site. It would take the pressure off Cleve Cole Hut and Federation shut which are very popular .

Zero. PV is very short of cash, and there are a huge number of higher compoting priorities. The best that can be sought is a campsite at those places, and even that's doubtful, as the cost of establishing and servicing the toilet would be high. Further, PV policy has long been not to replace huts that have fallen into ruin or gone. This was the case with Aertex, Summit and Wilky. Public huts destroyed by fire such as Federation, Ropers and Fitzgeralds were replaced.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Michel hut and Weston's hut were also damaged by fire and replaced by PV If I understand correctly.

[Xplora]

Those huts replaced after fires were done so due to public safety to provide emergency shelter in bad weather. A hut at the top of T spur would make it very close to Cleve Cole so it would be difficult to argue the need. Some huts may have also received private funding. The new Fitzgerald hut was built quite some time ago and the expense was met many interested parties. Maddison hut has been gone for a very long time so it would be difficult to argue its restoration. A hut on Bon Accord could have some value but where the old hut was is not that far from the Razorback which puts you close to Diamantini hut.

[Lophophaps]

An email was received from Parks Victoria a few minutes ago:
The Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing Master Plan – Draft Plan

The Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing Master Plan outlines the preferred new route for a 56km, four - six day walk, which will provide walkers with a wonderful experience of Victoria’s alpine environment. The full Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing Draft Master Plan is now available for download at the following hyperlink:

http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/explore/parks ... aster-plan

Release of the draft master plan is the third and final stage of consultation. Details on how to provide your comments are included on Parks Victoria’s website accessible via the hyperlink above. Comments on the plan must be received no later than 19th December 2016. This stage will inform the development of the master plan which will be finalised and released in 2017.

*** ends

I have not read it but the time-frame is very short. PV works on it for ten months or so and wants an answer in just under four weeks in the lead-up to Christmas.

Edit. Just had a quick look. The US "trail" is creeping in. I cannot see people on a bushwalk spending the average cited, which is predominated by people in towns and resorts. I'm not keen on the Diamantina Spur shelter. Federation is crowded on popular weekends. It will be ghastly with more. The track at the foot of Diamantina Spur seems to be lower, so that the climb starts where it does now, I think. Some of the campsites are hard to understand.

I've asked PV to provide details of the figures on page 92 of the plan.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Hi
I just got this link e mailed to me from the people at P.V. .
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/h/qykn ... 55abec&v=c
I will reply on the weekend.
How can it take 4-6 days to walk 56 kms? . Is that for people who have no legs or something?.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... P-2016.pdf

Read this load of betty swollocks. This means WAR!!!

[paidal_chalne_vala]

"Overnight Node 4: Mt Feathertop Setting 1: Diamantina Spur There is a protected clearing atop Diamantina Spur which will accommodate a seasonal roofed accommodation facility. There is no direct road access to the site, but the clearing is large enough for helicopters to service the facilities. Structures will be installed on the protected southern side of the ridge amongst existing Snow Gums and with views to the south and out to the Razorback."

NOOOOOOOOO !:(:mad::eek::cry:

[Lophophaps]

How can it take 4-6 days to walk 56 kms? . Is that for people who have no legs or something?.

LOL! It's really a four day trip
1 Falls to Cope Hut ~ 15 kilometres
2 Cope Hut to Blairs/Horseyards - 15 kilometres
3 Blairs/Horseyards to Razorback, Feathertop - a hard morning steeply.
4 Razorback to HH - not far or hard

There could be a night at Tawonga Huts, but Cope Hut-TH is quite short, 10 kilometres and 3 hours. Okay, climb Mt J that day, but then why on earth go back to TH? Far better to avoid TH altogether and do a side-trip from Pole 333 on the ridge to the saddle west of TH and bag Mt J from there. Then proceed to Westons or Blair - it's all downhill.

Make no mistake. If this is going to be won it will be on economic grounds. It seems that the economic benefits are based on an average spend for the region, which is rubbish for bushwalkers. Most walkers will buy just a bit of food, fuel, and that's all. You cannot spend money on a mountaintop. This will be my first focus.

The second will be space, notably at Federation Hut. There's a crowd on most weekends, and pumping more there is foolish. There is nowhere to camp. Page 67 of the full document has camping platforms at Federation. So, no camping within 100 metres and voila! No more camping like we do now. Star Trek has it right: it's camping but not as we know it.

Third is environmental. Can the tracks, water sources and campsites sustain the masses? Is the shelter on Razorback legal?

A few more points for now. Why is the Melbourne meeting so close to the deadline? I recall that the last meeting was not fruitful. What does VNPA and Vicwalk think? I asked eight months ago, no reply.

These three aspects should be looked at in depth, and quickly

[Xplora]

I also received the email and have read the 115 pages. This is going ahead as the language used is 'when implemented'. It will be at the exclusion of many as they want to limit numbers on the track to 60 per section. You will have to book and pay. I cannot see them selling Diamantina spur to the average visitor who does not want to get their shoes dirty or raise a sweat. The seems to be a heavy reliance on PV and volunteers to keep it running so others can make money. All will have to pay and book and they cannot work out how to stop people flowing onto their course from other tracks. The private people want the government to front a lot of money to reduce their risk as it will take a while for the them to make any money. So many contradictions. Minimal impact in sensitive areas. Bring the cattle back as that would create less impact. Try to avoid new tracks unless it is to avoid sensitive areas but there are new tracks from Tawonga huts and Diamantina river camp so they can avoid walking over the same ground. I am sure there will be septic systems and flushing toilets installed. Try to get that 60m from a water course. The entire area is a watershed. They seem to think we do not matter either as half of the people such as us will not go back. We are only 30% of the potential number of people walking anyway. The other 70% are made up of inbounds and others with lots of money and no idea. All this great potential looks good on paper but has to transpose to feet on the ground. Of course we can raise our voice and protest. We can mass walk into one of their sites and camp. They will weather it and it will give them publicity. We need to be directing our attack on the privatisation of the High Plains and put that in the media. The agenda was to kick the cattlemen off to protect it so the carpet-baggeres could stroll in and throw thousand of paying people over it. Now there is a Labor government in power it is time to lobby the opposition and let them know of this analogy (as they supported the cattle). Mind you it was probably the same people who started the ball rolling. Tim Bull is the sitting NP member for East Gippsland and is not a great deal of help usually. Alpine shire are all about the dollar and cow-tow to the resorts. I need to read it all again and then I will have more to say but I need to wait until my blood stops boiling. Another great area destroyed by greed. I noticed something also (need to re-read) about dwindling winter resort numbers. This is the motivation. I feel if the private sector has to foot the bill then it will all collapse anyway.

[andrewp]

I am really upset at their plans for Diamantina Spur. I'm not so bothered about the structures at Red Robin/Diamantina yards, or even Tawonga Huts, but the planned desecration of Diamantina Spur is hideous.

Steps and railings (why not a chair lift?) at the bottom.

diamantina-1.jpg (44.7 KiB) Viewed 36056 times

Glamping huts at the top at a cost of $1.8M.

diamantina-2.jpg (85.34 KiB) Viewed 36056 times

I love this camp site, but no more. You won't be able to camp anywhere near it (and you want to anyway). Ditto for Federation Hut. There is going to be a platform and presumably you won't be able to camp within 500m without booking and paying.

We need to be directing our attack on the privatisation of the High Plains and put that in the media.

Absolutely right. This is taking the Park from the people for the benefit of wealthy tourists and commercial operators.

I urge everyone to make a submission. See here for details: http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/explore/parks/alpine-national-park/plans-and-projects/falls-to-hotham-alpine-crossing-master-plan

[Lophophaps]

All responses should be crafted with facts, care and courtesy.

I've been following this issue for over 12 months with increasing apprehension. For some reason the report made me think of the following. It's not quite applicable but it's close enough.
Listen, children, to a story
That was written long ago.
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley folk below.
On the mountain was a treasure,
Buried deep beneath a stone,
And the valley people swore
They'd have it for their very own,

Go ahead and hate your neighbor
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgment day.
On the b-loody morning after who ...
One tin soldier rides away.

So, the people of the valley
Sent a message up the hill.
Asking for the buried treasure,
Tons of gold for which they'd kill.
Came an answer from the kingdom,
"With our brothers, we will share
All the secrets of our mountain,
All the riches buried there."

Now, the valley cried with anger,
"Mount your horses, draw your sword!"
And they killed the mountain people
So, they won their just reward.
Now, they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain dark and red.
Turn the stone and looks beneath it ...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgment day.
On the b-loody morning after who ...
One tin soldier rides away.

Edit. Quite fascinating. The word b-loody without the dash comes up as %#@*^% or similar. So I put in a dash. Must be some kind of naughty word filter.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

THIS whole scheme is criminal !!! A flipping travesty.It will kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
Leave the Diamantina spur alone. What about putting in a bleeding chair lift ?. Why stop at that ? .
That campsite on the saddle on the top of the Diamantina spur is superb. Yes you have to cart water into there in green season but it is still unspoiled and secluded compared with Fed. hut.
If this all goes ahead and it sounds more like when rather than if , then I will be heading to the KNP to the Jagungal wilderness instead where they have not turned it into bleeding Lego land yet.
Keep in mind in white season , it is when we will get our Vic. Alps back because only nutters in snow shoes with heavy packs who trek up Mt. FT in blizzards such as me go out there in winter and early spring. I am NOT a HAPPY chappy about all of this !!!!!!!.NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[Xplora]

Make no mistake. If this is going to be won it will be on economic grounds. It seems that the economic benefits are based on an average spend for the region, which is rubbish for bushwalkers. Most walkers will buy just a bit of food, fuel, and that's all. You cannot spend money on a mountaintop. This will be my first focus.

They are well aware the current walkers do not spend much in the local area. This is about tapping into a market where people will travel to an area to stay, eat and then do the walk followed by stay and eat and maybe do other things in the area. Their target market are the cashed up 'experience seekers' in their mid life. I suspect they have misread the market. This is not an iconic walk and people will soon realise they can do Feathertop in a day. The rest of the walk does not offer a great deal of vista until you head down from Westons or climb Mt. Youatemytounge. A great amount of money will be spent to get the infrastructure in place and I am sure it will be the government responsible for it. Crunch the numbers. 43500 people camp nights, 240 people per day on the track, 60 people per leg, works out to be 181 walking days or 6 months. These figures are top end spin. Fact is there would be much fewer walking days and I doubt you would get that constant flow. What number makes it sustainable? Their ratio seems attractive but it is overstated.

The second will be space, notably at Federation Hut. There's a crowd on most weekends, and pumping more there is foolish. There is nowhere to camp. Page 67 of the full document has camping platforms at Federation. So, no camping within 100 metres and voila! No more camping like we do now. Star Trek has it right: it's camping but not as we know it.

Numbers on the track will be limited and camping preference given to commercial operators and the private sector. They want only 60 people on each section per day maximum. That is a lot of people at Fed hut. This is not minimal impact and it shuts everyone else out.

Third is environmental. Can the tracks, water sources and campsites sustain the masses? Is the shelter on Razorback legal?

Think of all the toilets that have to be put in along the way.

A few more points for now. Why is the Melbourne meeting so close to the deadline? I recall that the last meeting was not fruitful. What does VNPA and Vicwalk think? I asked eight months ago, no reply.

This is not a meeting. It is an information day with fancy boards and pictures so you can meet the team and hear their spin. I doubt they would be interested in any negative feedback. That is reserved for the feedback sheet which will be filed in the round cabinet. I am going to send an email to Tim Bull anyway and maybe he will actually do something.

[Lophophaps]

Xplorer, valid points. I'd missed the toilet aspect. The OLT has some problems in this regard, near Ossa I think, and probably in many OLT places away from huts. The OLT has 7-8000 walkers a year. See http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/file.aspx?id=31190 The Falls-HH walk needs toilets at, say, two hour intervals. How much do these cost to build and maintain? Federation has me worried, as does the Diamantina campsite. PCV has the idea on this. We are being pushed out. is the walk sustainable economically or environmentally? I think not. I'd like to see a proper EIS including water.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Come to the meeting/info sessions and tell them, P.V., The Govt. and Big business to stick it right up their luxury lodge shaped sphincters.
4-8 pm
Mon. 12 th Dec.
Melb. Office of the College of Surgeons
250-290 Spring st.
East Melb. 3004

[Chev]

I’m not very familiar with the Victorian high country. My only walk in the area has been a two-nighter up Bungalow Spur to Feathertop and down via the North West Spur, with a longing along the Razorback. Definitely a place I’d like to explore more, but I just haven’t made it happen.

I’m reading about this proposal here for the first time. It doesn’t look good. The decision to proceed seems to have been made before the planning process began. It appears to be a case of government being willingly captured by private interest. My first thoughts:

To me this is the crux of the matter:

‘In order to attract private investment in the proposed roofed accommodation facilities and to provide the required services to walkers, the core walk infrastructure will be publicly funded and delivered through Parks Victoria as part of a staged implementation strategy (p. ix; emphasis added).’

It’s a little bit weasel-wordy, but actually surprisingly frank. The objective is not an Iconic Walk per se. It is to expand private for-profit operations within the national park by way of developing flash accommodation. The private investors understand that the proposal is not economically viable without massive public subsidy. The draft masterplan outlines the scope of public investment required to support the proposal.

The document is reasonably clear about upfront capital costs. It is cagey about ongoing costs (Maintenance & operations are ‘Excluded from cost plan. Estimates were used for purposes of economic modelling (p. 92).‘ It ignores the distribution of costs, simply noting ‘that costs are societal costs and for the purposes of this analysis a distinction is not made between costs born by the public or private sector (p. 92).

I think this is unsatisfactory. Given the apparent crux of the matter – planning public investment to support expanded private operations in the national park – the economic analysis needs to be more detailed and transparent about the distribution of costs and benefits.

Like others here, I also have concerns about the environmental impact and the implications for current ‘adventure seekers’. The draft masterplan doesn’t seem to give much consideration to either.

[andrewa]

Have the Niggerheads been renamed Mt Juntapilinka or whatever it is on their map? If so, when did that occur? ( probs years ago!).

Will people be able to have wine and a shower at the new Diamantina Hut? After such a climb, the paying consumers would need these facilities to make the whole walk tolerable!

A

[Xplora]

Have the Niggerheads been renamed Mt Juntapilinka or whatever it is on their map? If so, when did that occur? ( probs years ago!).

Yes it happened a number of years ago and it is pronounced Ya - ate - ma- tung. Controversy surrounds the renaming among the tribes and the debate still rages.
Got a response from Tim Bull MP and expect no support from him. His response is below and I believe he has been misled as have all of us. 17000 people p.a. walking the track now. Not likely. 17000 visitors to their new NODES maybe. Visitor books are the only way they can assess then numbers and that does not show anywhere this number.

'Thanks for your email. I have had some discussions with Parks on this and kept across the basics, so am happy to provide a precis of my discussions, but should point out this proposed walk does commence in the electorate of Benambra (Bill Tilley MP) and finish in the electorate of Ovens Valley (Tim McCurdy MP). I think may enter my electorate for a short stretch where it “squiggles” between Langford Gap Hut and Cope Hut on the suggested route, although I understand the route is not finalised.

In relation to who is the key driver behind it, North East Tourism and the ski resorts, they are certainly involved, but I am advised it is being driven by Parks Victoria which is the major proponent. As you would know, Parks has as its objective to develop a number of key walks around the state.

Although it is not really in my patch, in my dealing with Parks on this, I have been advised it will largely be an upgrade in infrastructure along an existing walk that 17,000 people are currently doing annually. They have advised that they will consider private enterprise becoming involved in suitable activities (organised trips for the less experienced, trail rides etc), but that they expect the majority of participants to be individual groups and these self-organised groups will not have to pay anything above normal camping fees that may apply (as they do in other areas of the state).

Parks advised me you will be able to basically do the hike as you always have done, or take up the option of a paid tour or additional activities, but any private operators would need to be able to operate under their own viability in the long term and this will be a business decision for operators who would need to be approved..

I understand the latest round of consultation on the proposal has just opened on November 21 and runs through until December 19 and the feedback will be assessed.

I note your concerns around infrastructure being potentially built in sensitive areas and this is a valid concern. On the comment that it will be invested in heavily to fail, I would add that it is not going to be a commercial business operation that will fail, it will be about increased usage and Parks have received a lot of feedback from hikers seeking improved infrastructure. I note Parks has estimated 60,500 per year, which equates to 165 people per day using the track. As you state, this may be a bit fanciful, but I understand it is based on increased usage of other walks that have been developed like the Grampians Walk, the first stage of which is now complete, and is proving very successful with lots of school groups taking part.

In past months I have received emails from those who are very supportive of the project. I have simply advised all with an interest to feed their views – positive or negative - into the current process being run by Parks Victoria. I am happy to keep in touch when more detailed plans are provided in relation to what infrastructure will go in – and where.

Kind regards
Tim
Tim Bull MLA
Member for Gippsland East
Ph: (03)5152 3491
Fax: (03)5152 2023
Web: http://www.timbull.com.au
facebook: TimBullMP
Twitter: @TimBullMP'

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Mr. Tim Bull( Bull excrement ) ,M.P. doesn't care. That is the short answer.

[Lophophaps]

I think that most people care. Tim Bull is relying on advice which very much seems to be flawed. It would be much better to gently correct his understanding - and those of anyone - than to call him names. People are more likely ro respond to reasoned debate than personal criticism. This is the direction I'm heading.

Do the maths on 17,000 people over 8 months of non-winter, and it comes to 18 people every day at every campsite. Nope. I've seen just two people at Cope Hut, maybe 10 at Tawonga, maybe 8 at Westons, one at Blairs, and Federation with the usual 20-30. On that trip, I met one party at the top of Diamantina Spur, maybe 8 people. This was Easter, peak season! It was similar at Christmas-NY for the High Plains, Bogong Jack, Fainters, Cope, Nelse and Bogong. In fact I met more people on Bogong that for the rest of the trip.

Give Mr Bull some facts and say that the facts do not support the 17,000. Say gently that it's hard to see how the 17,000 figure was obtained. Say that there is no room at DS and Federation for more than the current usage. The tank at Federation runs dry now and again, and most likely so will the one at DS. Question the zoning of DS. Ask how trad campers at Federation will continue if there are platforms or fees. Ask how the fees will be enforced and if PV will risk the publicity. Ask if he supports the higher risk of wannbe walkers on DS, sucked in by glossy art four colour process hype about walking at 2000 metres above sea level.

There's plenty of questions that can be asked, plenty of facts to counter the PV report.

[Xplora]

I agree with Lops. Constructive, well thought arguments serve us much better than name calling. This is the sort of contribution we need. I have sent a polite reply to Tim Bull explaining the errors. I have crunched the numbers and it works out 4.4 people start this trail every single day for 8 months to get to 17000 walker nights p.a. based on a 4 night walk. The camping platform hire at Cope suggests less than 1 per day staying there but there is not indication they are walking on. Weston's hut log book also suggests on average 1 per day. These figures are likely plucked from visitor information centres and based on numbers of people visiting the area or one of the tourist nodes. I could see over 4000 p.a. doing that. The numbers on the trail must grow to support the money spent and the exaggerated figures seem to confuse everyone. Numbers on each section will be restricted and permits will be needed. This includes day walkers and tour operators will be give preference. Anyone walking the AAWT will also have to book a permit and tell them when they are going to be there. That could be a bit hard to do. The target figure is around 15000 walkers p.a. but agree some people, such as me, will not want to go there because of the increased numbers. Around 11000 walkers p.a. is the end figure which works out to be just over 45 people start the walk every day for 8 months. Marketing people are never good at basic maths. They will need to do a great deal to get that sort of number. $13.5M of tax payer money is to be spent to get things going. I have told Tim Bull he should hold the government to account for this and look at the real numbers. What we need are some connections to a big Melbourne paper to highlight the government waste and exaggerated numbers. Headline - Selling off the High Country. This government has kicked the cattlemen off so greedy people can set it up as a high end tourist resort.