Peak Bagging Victoria

[Explorer_Sam]

Okay, well I think we'll go on the basis of the most popular route. Forget every other mountain in the world for a minute but Mount Bogong. Just imagine that if Bogong is a 7 (now think about all the others again) then what are they?

This is the sort of thing that is very controversial, no one will ever agree 100%, but this is the way we'll do it just because it's the simplest way and we've already been judging them this way so it would be a pain to go back and re-assign points with a new criteria.

Thanks for your contribution about Mount Howitt, every peak counts towards the overall list.

[Explorer_Sam]

I would think not comparing to other places would be easier and just developing a stand alone list for Victoria. What would be Victoria's hardest peak to get to the top of?
Bogong is a tough day out but then again so is the Crinoline and I'm yet to make the top of the Fortress.

Whoops, missed this one Maybe that's the way to go, no comparisons and just rate peaks as they are. Thanks for the suggestion

[north-north-west]

OK, a few of the Vic Alps summits, just off the top of my head:

MacDonald via North Face - 7
McDonald West Peak - 7
Eagle Peaks - 4
Darling - 4 (only for the scrubbash to reach the highest point)
The Governor - 5 (ditto)
Bluff - 6
Eadley Stoney - 6
Lovick - 1
Bogong - 5 (no way is it worth 7)
Bogong West Peak - 6
Clear - 2
Nobs - 3
Square Top - 2
King Billy 2 - 5
King Billy 1 - 3
Magdala - 2
Howitt - 5
Buggery - 6
Speculation - 1
Murray - 1
Wongungurra - 4
Twins - 6
St Bernard - 1
Freezeout - 1
Smythe - 1
Blowhard - 2
Hotham - 1
Loch - 2
Feathertop - 5
Feathertop North Peak - 5
Little Feathertop - 4
Fainter Nth - 5
Fainter Sth - 6
Niggerhead - 6
McKay - 1
Jim - 4
Bundara - 2
Cope - 3
Nelse & Nelse Nth & Nelse Sth - 1 each
Timms Spur - 3
Spion Kopje - 2
Wills - 2
Wills Sth - 3
Arthur - 4
Little Arthur - 4
Buller (via West Ridge) - 6
Stirling - 2
Johnnies Top - 3
Davies Plain Ridge (you have to include this, it's wonderful area) - 3 if you walk in from the top of the Buckwong Track. 0 if you drive.
Hope - 1
Misery - I don't know, I've not yet found the high point.
Reynard - 2
Wellington - 2 if you walk, 0 if you drive.
Spion Kopje (the one above Tali Karng) - 4
Lookout - 1
Cobberas 1 - 6
Cobberas 2 - 5
Cleft - 5
Middle - 3
Moscow - 2
Skene - 1
McKinty - 1 (3 if you walk in from Rumpff Saddle)
Sunday - 1 from the 4WD track, 2 if you walk in further
BawBaw - 1
St Gwinnear - 2
St Phillack - 3
Whitelaw - 3 (just for working out which bit is the highest)
Torbreck - 2
Useful - 0 (you can drive to the summit)
Selma - ditto



Oh, and if we're going easiest route, Donna Buang doesn't get any points, because there's a carpark about 5 metres from the summit tower. From Warburton, I'd give it a 3.
Juliet is a harder walk, nice steep track that, I'd give it 5, which is a lot for a short walk. Dom Dom I haven't been min to yet, but Vinegar and Boobyalla get 2 each.

That's all I can think of right now.

[Explorer_Sam]

Wow! Thank you, that's quite a list of peaks. I'll have to sit down now and add the points and a few peaks to the list. We're well on our way now with that contribution

Now just a question, in your opinion, what is the hardest mountain in Victoria to climb?

[north-north-west]

Define 'hardest'.
Some are further, some are steeper, some need a bit of scrambling. Sometimes it just depends on the route. And there are a hell of a lot I haven't done.

Oops, I forgot Cobbler. That gets 4 because of the nice little scramble to the summit from the saddle. Haven't done Koonika yet.

[Explorer_Sam]

Let's say a combination of distance, steepness and technicality. Hardest route then rather than mountain.

I have added Cobbler to the list.

[Kinsayder]

I can understand downgrading my few assessments, NxNW, but does that leave scope for a 10? If a relativist approach is adopted then surely with your broad and impressive coverage a 10 (or 9) must be within range or is the point to compare it to Tasmania? If so, is Federation Peak really twice as hard as Feathertop?

Sam, my 3yo daughter climbed Mt Buninyong when she was a 2yo, although she is completely awesome, little girls are little girls, so I'll give it a 1. NxWW might take that back to 0.

[Explorer_Sam]

As I said, the point system is very controversial, I reckon for Victoria alone, Kinsayder's was much more appropriate and correct but Australia wide, NNW is on the ball. I also have to agree with you Kinsayder, does it leave scope for a 10?

Good to hear your daughter's learning to become a bushwalker! I reckon I'll put Buninyong down as a 1 because I believe all but the very easiest peaks deserve to score.

[Kinsayder]

Just by way of some interesting reading, Sam.. http://www.summitpost.org/handy-alpine- ... cts/173430

[north-north-west]

Well, any points system has its controversies and inconsistencies. I was just trying to run down a list of some of the more obvious VicAlps summits, and give a starting point for Sam to work with.
Obviously, we're all different in what we think is easy or hard, and our different expectations and experiences will mean ratings vary. I can only judge on what I know of the summits in question from my own experience, considering vehicle access, tracks (or lack thereof), distance, altitude gain, stepth, etc.

A few more(occasionally with a bit of an explanation):
Selwyn & Selwyn Sth - 1 each
Timbertop - 3 (short, but a bit of a scramble up the top.)
Round (the one between Davies Plain Ridge and the Murray River) - 1
Wombargo (this is tricky because it's been years since I walked out there. Depends on whether the vehicle track from the old quarry is still closed off and overgrowing.) - 3
Ramshorn - 2 (short, but great fun mucking around on all the tors)
Tamboritha (again, yonks since I did it, and that time all the tracks were blocked with fallen timber from the fires, so this is a bit guessy) - 3
Victor - 1 (if you walk from Selma or Victor Spur Rds)
Easton & Little Easton (Tricky. Shortest & easiest is via TJ Divide Rd/track, but most people go up from the Thomson River.) - 4 for the pair.
Margaret (another difficult one to rate. It's a short scrubbash up from the 4WD track, but that's a difficult drive and most people who get to the summit walk it from the Tamboritha Rd. And from there, it's at least as hard as Bogong. Probably harder, because what little track there is [apart from the firetrail] is rapidly returning to that from whence it came.) - 6
Ligar (hardest tracked daywalk I've done in the Aus Alps) - 8

Some that need to be done:
Arnold (there's a 4WD track virtually over the summit, but that's the Mt Margaret track and a sod of a drive.)
Stradbroke (I think the track's been recut.)
Dawson (4wd track, but it may be MVO. Must check)
Snowy Bluff (easiest access is from the Dawson 4wd track, but regrowth currently makes it hard work)
Viking & Razor (just because a few superfit youngsters have done it as a daywalk doesn't mean it should be ranked as one. Normally the V/R is an overnighter. And not an easy one)
Despair
Koonika (easy enough from the Spec Rd)
Darling (not the one I've listed above, which is in the Howqua area. This is the one across the valley from Dimmicks lookout. Maps show a walking track which continues on from the old vehicle track that goes down to the valley floor. Both probably now nonexistent due to regrowth.)
Hump (maps show a walking track up the western side from the 4WD tracks. But that's a very long hard drive. The usual ridgetop route would be less trouble, albeit a longer walk. Has anyone here done it? Has a reputation as a bit of a test.)

Elsewhere:
Cathedral Range:
Neds Peak - 2
Cathedral - 3
Little Cathedral - 2
Nth Jawbone & Sth Jawbone - 3 for the pair
Sugarloaf Peak - 4 (short from the road, but what a fun scramble up and down and over.)

Grampians:
Stapylton - 3
Hollow - 2
Zero - 1
Gar - 4
Briggs Bluff - 3
Duwil - 1 (from the carpark. 2 from Bomjinna. 3 from Kalymna.)
Major Mitchell Plateau - 5 (Maybe. The high point is the cairn on the eastern scarp on the southern end of the plateau. Longish daywalk from the south, or Kalymna, usually overnighter if doing the whole plateau & Duwil. Plus some steeper scrambly bits. A fun walk.)
Abrupt - ? (still to get around to this )
Lot more stuff in the grumps. Really need to find the time to explore a bit more of it, but there are always so many people around *shudder*)

Buffalo:
Dunn (depends on whether they've replaced the ladder. Most dangerous summit I've done in Vic because the thing was succumbing to years of corrosion and officially closed when I went up. And it nearly collapsed under me) - 2
MacLeod - 3
Buffalo - ? (no, I haven't. One day. Maybe. Maybe not.)

Bunyip SP:
Weatherhead (depends on whether the vehicle track is open. Not sure.) - 3 if you have to walk all the way
Towt (ditto) - 2

Far as I'm concerned, unless you can drive to the top of it with a 2WD or sod-all-ground-clearance SUV, it gets a score. I don't think Wellington (in Tassie) should get anything because it's 10 metres from the furthest part of the carpark. This is why things like the Knocker aren't on this list.
Of course, this means that things like Hollonds Knob and Raspberry Hill and Langtree Hill and a host of others should be on the list. My own hitlist has every named high point I've walked to the top of, and a few special officially unnamed ones. Those I usually name myself.

Last edited by north-north-west on Fri 31 Aug, 2012 6:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[north-north-west]

...is Federation Peak really twice as hard as Feathertop?

No. Try four times. Seriously. In summer, the only thing that can kill you on Feathertop is your own ill health or freak weather. On Fedders however, one slip or misstep and you're gone.

[PeterJ]

I don't think anyone has mentioned The Fortress in Victoria Range at the Grampians. Now I reckon that might be quite a hard one to to the top off (unless using ropes). Also Chimney Pots near by which looked very hard to the very top (ropes I assume would be needed, certainly I was happy not go try).

[north-north-west]

Yeah, there's a lot in the Grumps that needs to be rated. I always heard that the Seven Dials were pretty full-on, too. Have to find the time to get up there.

[bailz66]

Are you thinking of making this into a web site?

For me if you had it on the web there would be a few things you could do.

1: Have the ratings voted by the people who have done the walks. A rating out of 10 and once a person has completed 3 peaks they are eligible to enter a rating for each climb. Then from the ratings of users you devise a user rating. You also have a site rating for that walk as devised by who ever is looking after it (Or this group here)

2: Some users are going to want to have a spreadsheet so have a downloadable spread sheet.

The good thing about putting it on a website is you have a database of all your work, everyone who logs in keeps a history ect.

I would be happy to help out with this as well

-Warren

[Explorer_Sam]

Are you thinking of making this into a web site?

For me if you had it on the web there would be a few things you could do.

1: Have the ratings voted by the people who have done the walks. A rating out of 10 and once a person has completed 3 peaks they are eligible to enter a rating for each climb. Then from the ratings of users you devise a user rating. You also have a site rating for that walk as devised by who ever is looking after it (Or this group here)

2: Some users are going to want to have a spreadsheet so have a downloadable spread sheet.

The good thing about putting it on a website is you have a database of all your work, everyone who logs in keeps a history ect.

I would be happy to help out with this as well

-Warren

G'day Warren,

I don't think I'll make it into a website myself, but walkinTas has offered to put it up on the wiki for me, so it will go up there. If you would like to turn it into a website you have my permission to do so when it's completed. Thanks for the suggestions

[Kinsayder]

I had no idea, NxNW, thanks for the heads up! I'll have to head over and give it a crack when I get some time (things are a little hectic right now though; I've got work, studying my masters, wife is giving birth to baby number two this month and I'm preparing for a summit of Mt Rainier, so Federation Peak might have to wait a little). I've had a look at some website and it looks very enticing.

I like the idea of this being collated into a website. Is that something that you've considered, Sam? Does anybody know if such things can be incorporated into this site?

[north-north-west]

I reckon for Victoria alone, Kinsayder's was much more appropriate and correct but Australia wide, NNW is on the ball.

Actually, no. On an Australia-wide basis I was being very generous. I was just trying to rate the peaks I know compared to each other. As I said earlier, compared to Tasmania (and Tassie IS a part of Aus), there aren't any peaks in the Australian Alps that I've climbed that are worth more than 2 points, maybe 3 at a stretch.

1: Have the ratings voted by the people who have done the walks. A rating out of 10 and once a person has completed 3 peaks they are eligible to enter a rating for each climb. Then from the ratings of users you devise a user rating. You also have a site rating for that walk as devised by who ever is looking after it (Or this group here)

Yes, I like that idea. People really aren't qualified to rate a peak unless they've done it. Too many of the Tassie PB anomalies are due to armchair experts.

[Explorer_Sam]

I like the idea of a website as well, but I don't think I could make it. If someone else would make it that would be fantastic, I would certainly contribute.

And to NNW, I never said that Tasmania wasn't part of Australia. It very much is.

[walkinTas]

I am not sure you need another website. You have several opportunities here and an established community.

• You could post a list up in the Wiki along the lines of the Tassie lists. I'll help - when you are ready.
• You could post a spreadsheet along the lines of the falls bagging spreadsheet and include all the excellent ideas above.
• You could just keep building on this discussion.

If you have other specific needs, why not ask the Admin guys.

[bailz66]

WalkinTas, the advantage a website has is that you could track your climbs on there and compare it to other people. Make it a competitive nature where you get your points, you have a leaderboard (Honesty system an issue), you can see how often people are doing hikes and how long they are taking to do them (Lots of good stats) It also means that if you want to update a rating, add a new peak it immediatly comes live and you do not need to re-distribute spreadsheets and merge your walks into the new sheet.

Lots of advantages and some disadvantages as well. Could be hosted on Bushwalk.com even

[andrewbish]

Hi Sam.

Great initiative. Check out also the references in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=6059

Andrew

[MartyGwynne]

Has any one bagged Howe Hill?
It is just east of Mallacoota.
I have always wanted to get there but it is sort of two days walk to get to a good starting point (OK one day if you want to walk nearly 25 kms on sand in one day).
It is not a tall one but it is just rather remote and I have not found an easy way to start yet from Lake Wau Wauka.
I would think its rating would be on the higher side of 5 - just because it is hard to get near to start walking up it.

[JamesMc]

In the US they have a rule that for an ascent of a "14er" to count, you need to climb at least 3000 feet. That gets around people driving up peaks like Mt Hotham or Pikes Peak.

JamesMc

[mikethepike]

I haven't seen reference to it here, but Wild published a list of 110 Victorian peaks above 1500m that fitted stated rules for minimum values for elevation and prominence - the drop between it and the nearest higher peak. Five different values for prominence were used with higher peaks >1900m requiring a lesser prominence (2 contour intervals) than lower peaks, (eg 6 contour intervals for peaks 1500-1599m high.) This was so as to limit the number of lower peaks and maximize the number of higher ones (think of peaks on the Bogong High Plains). The article didn't state the contour interval but it's the one on the 1:100,000 maps (10m I think but not sure) The reference is 'Natural Highs' by David Innes in Wild pp 48-55 Winter 1996 (sorry haven't the Vol. number on me).

[DanJWill]

Hey Guys, I like what you're up to here. I'm by no means qualified to add any data on any of the Vic peaks but just from reading through the thread, one idea comes to mind.
You're doing a great job of ranking the peaks and even though it might need some fine tuning you're on the right track.

Perhaps keep the rankings relevant to the specific state, as it looks Tassie has done, and consider what most people think is the hardest in Vic to be the indicator for a 10 ranking.
If you want to then go to the next level and compare it to Tassie mountains you can use a sliding scale and visually represent where Vic's 10 peak sits against the equivalent in Tas.
This sliding scale can then be used if anyone decides to expand it in the future with other states, detailing it all on the Wiki if that's going to be your main resource point. If it looks like a 1-10 ranking system is loosing it's relevance when a few states jump of board, you have the data then to rejig the scale and the points system to suit the whole of Australia.

Dan.

[Explorer_Sam]

Thanks for the suggestions Dan, they were really helpful. If we were going to assign ten points to the hardest peak in Victoria though, which peak would it be? So far on the list the highest ranked peak is The Crinoline/Mt Ligar, with 8 points.

We still need to assign points to all these peaks, if anyone could help out that would be greatly appreciated:

Mount William (Grampians)
Mount Gibbo
Mount Dom Dom
Mount Selma
Mount Terrible
Mount Arapiles (Grampians)
Mount Macedon
Mount Buningyong (Western Vic)
Hanging Rock
Mount Alexander (Western Vic)
Mount Dandenong (Near Melbourne)
Mount Misery

Thanks, Sam.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I have climbed
Mt Feather top via the bungalow spur and the razor back
Mt Loch via the machinery spur down in the valley
Mt Buffalo in full snow and ice
Mt Kosciusko in full snow
Mt Stirling in full snow
Mt Nelse
Mt Howitt and the cross cut saw from MacAlister springs
The crinolene aka mt Ligar in snow, rain and sleet via long hill plateau. That was a ball buster!
Lake Mtn
Mt Baw Baw
Mt St Gwinear
Mt William
Mt Staplyton( both in the grampians)
Mt Buller
and many more in Australia.

[Snowzone]

Mount William (Grampians)
Mount Arapiles (Grampians)
Mount Macedon
Mount Buningyong (Western Vic)
Mount Alexander (Western Vic)
Mount Dandenong (Near Melbourne)

Sam I think these would all rate as a 1 given most of them have easy access.

Some others in the Grampians
Abrupt 2
Sturgeon 1
Thackeray 3
Rosea 2
Cathedral Rock 3
Boronia Peak 1
Chatauqua Peak 1

Western Vic
Mt Eccles 1
Mt Elephant 1
Langi Ghiran 2
Mt Gorin 2
Mt Buangor 1
Ben Nevis 1, I nearly said 2 for this one but it is really just a basic walk.

[andrewbish]

Ligar (hardest tracked daywalk I've done in the Aus Alps) - 8

Hi NNW What made this walk so hard?

[north-north-west]

Ligar (hardest tracked daywalk I've done in the Aus Alps) - 8

Hi NNW What made this walk so hard?

It's not that hard in and of itself, it's just that for a tracked Victorian summit, there aren't any I've been to that require more - or more varied - work. Steep loose ground lower down with the shoulder of the track collapsing, the rock hop along the first upper ridge, sidling the loose stuff near the two saddles, a few short scrubby sections. Maybe it was just the timing.