Snow camping and hiking

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I use purpose made steel snow pegs.
I have done a number of trips up Mt. FT and Mt. Bogong in atrocious white season weather leading groups with the VNPA and going over to camp at Fitzgerald's hut in fierce winter winds.Even the summit of Mt. Stirling can really be heavy going in bad white season weather.

What Explora says is true to some extent.
If you cannot stay warm and dry in terrible winter weather then you should reconsider your trip.
If your gear and habits / knowledge cannot match what nature throws at you above the tree line and in the tree line then reassess your trip.
The snow camping for newbies at JB Hut and at Mt. Stirling are the best ways to start IMHO.
Getting over the summit of Mt. Bogong to CC hut in snow and ice is the interesting bit.
I would start with Michell hut and wait for a weather window before proceeding any further past Michell hut & / or Granite flat spur junction .
Poo pooing the snow shoe options that one has as well as great ski touring options starting from Falls Creek and looking at the BHP for a snow shoe/ ski tour is not what I would be doing.
The BHP is my favourite place to bushwalk and Nordic ski tour.It is a place that inspired me to learn to ski.
I saw the people on skis while I was snow shoe trekking with an overnght pack and realized that skiing is more efficient and involves skills and fun that snow shoes don't offer.
If you don't want to pay or think ski resorts are soft boy thingy places then try the 12 km day loop from TBJ or head up from Big Hill to Bogong Jack Saddle with a view to visiting the Fainters in clear weather.
I have been up there in heavy fog. You cannot see anything and you could be anywhere.
The views of Mt. FT from the Fainters are excellent in clear weather.
Even going over the summit at Falls Creek can be interesting in heavy fog, snow and wind.
If that is not hard core enough for you then a trip to Antarctica is next .

A good wild winter snow shoe tour I did solo some years ago was The Bluff spur hut to Craig's hut for lunch and back.

That was a solid day and if things went wrong out there then there was NOBODY out there to assist you.

You need to know what you can and cannot do safely and what time you will be back. In white season I insist on being back at the car/ hut/ tent /base by 4 pm.

[Baeng72]

There is no need to go to resorts and you can't camp there anyway. Fed or CC huts are fine. Michell also but the boss should know weather is not something you can control. I suppose you can understand forecasts but if you are doing any multi day walk in the mountains you can expect some bad weather otherwise you just stay at home. It is also quite a long drive for you just to walk up a hill for one night or even just a day. The biggest draw back for winter BC camping is the long nights. It gets cold early and without a hut you are stuck in your tent unless you have suitable clothing. The sun can be gone around 4pm and after that you notice the temperature drop quickly. This is probably why so many people only BC camp near a hut. Huts get crowded quickly and are a great breeding place for lurgies on top of COVID. Nobody social distances in huts. Probably more danger hanging around a hut than in the BC on your own.

I'm not gonna gainsay anything quoted above. You know your stuff.
I guess what I mean is last weekend it was clear (or almost), low wind and forecast near 0% precipitation.
If it wasn't for my youngest selfishly having his b'day on Saturday and expecting me to be a "present" father, I'd have tried camping at Fed. Hut Sat. night (ungrateful sod!)
But there's a psychological comfort for my partner who isn't a fan of my "adventures", in that if the forecast is for mild conditions, she's happier than if it was forecast 50mm of precipitation and windy.
Workwise, I can't take time off yet, so weekends/long weekends only at the moment.
The drive is long, but I hadn't done anything approaching a serious bushwalk (Mason's Falls circuit in Kinglake NP doesn't count) for months, so was happy to do a day trip and smash my legs for a view of Feathertop.

[Baeng72]

If your gear and habits / knowledge cannot match what nature throws at you above the tree line and in the tree line then reassess your trip.

Reductio ad absurdum that means never leave home.
I'm sure if a tornado hit you in the snow, you'd not be able to match it.
There has to be a middle ground where you see the forecast, add in some protection if it goes sour (like I said, I had a lot of fleece/wool stuff that would keep me warm if wet on the way down), then go for it.
The chance of precipitation was about zero. Didn't seem to much of a risk.
Anyway, all the advice is good, so thank you. I don't want to come across if I'm ignoring it!

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Without a good Goretex jacket , Goretex overmittens and Goretex pants all your synthetic fleece and wool garments are not worth much.
Obviously if you see the Alpine weather forecast and it looks like only nutters would go out in a snow storm & /
or gale force winds etc. then your appraisal of the forecast would not be too far wrong.

If you want to keep fit in winter in the Alps then learnng to Nordic ski tour will make you very fit.
XC Skiing 10-20 kms a day will do the trick very nicely.
Cycling all year round is great exercise.

[Baeng72]

A propos nothing in particular, how far do you reckon a 2WD with some clearance can get up Brock's road from Sheepyard Flat?

[Xplora]

Without a good Goretex jacket , Goretex overmittens and Goretex pants all your synthetic fleece and wool garments are not worth much.

Why only gortex? I am not referring just to the brand but the type of material we dump in the same category. I would also disagree with base layers not being worth much without the waterproof shell. Many times I have not bothered with overpants and just worn thermals under my trousers in the rain or snow.

It is a good idea to have waterproof and windproof clothing but there are lighter (and cheaper) versions that do just as well as gortex type products.

A propos nothing in particular, how far do you reckon a 2WD with some clearance can get up Brock's road from Sheepyard Flat?

Isn't procrastination a wonderful thing. The answer to your question is the same as how long a piece of string is but look here for what can happen to a 4wd https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/the-b ... st-5094666 This was taken by someone coming out of that area recently.

[Baeng72]

I did have a water resistant (not waterproof) jacket, but left it in the car.
It wasn't gonna rain or snow in my non-professional opinion.
In the end, I'm responsible for my decisions, and still alive for now.

My idea of gear for crappy day is synthetic t-shirt, fleece, then jacket that's waterproof.
I'm not sure of the need for super expensive gear, just waterproof so I'd probably die on top of Bogong with cheap synthetic tshirt, fleece and plastic raincoat.
Make my memorial impressive please!

Bugger about Brocks road, that rules out overnighter to the Bluff with a bit of snowhoeing I guess.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

You can hike up to the Bluff from 8 Mile flat. I have done it. The route can be unclear in deep snow but overall the 8 mile spur walking track is straightforward. You could get a 2 wd up to 8 Mile flat winter gate. There is a car parking space opposite the winter gate there . Just go slowly and use lower gear if need be.If it seems sketchy for your car then turn around.
You can walk from Sheepyard flat along the Howqua River to 8 Mile Flat and then walk up to Refrigerator Gap using the 8 Mile spur track.
From there either you follow the 4 WD track all the way up to the Bluff hut or scale the Bluff walking( grovelling ) track to the summit.
If you have
not used this nearly vertical route before in green season then be careful. It is steep. It does face north so it doesn't stay icy for long at all. The sun seems to cook off the ice but there will be some snow and wet slippery bits for sure.

[Kman]

Hi all, three middled aged blokes planning to snow shoe it from Falls Creek car park to the Bogong High Plains in July. We have some hiking and camping experience, suitable gear but I have never snow camped. Thinking of walking to Edmonsons Hut on the first day. Is there a nice three day loop back to the car park? I estimate snow shoes will slow us down and should only be able to walk 10km or so per day. Any tips for navigating and pace setting?

[paidal_chalne_vala]

You can get a 2 wd up Carter's road to Tomahawk gap . From there you can slog it up the zig zag route up Road No. 3 to the No. 3 refuge hut for a day & night of snow camping at the hut on snow shoes.
Wait for a decent snow fall so you don't have to carry your snow shoes strapped to your pack. After a proper low snowfall Tomahawk gap will have snow on the ground.Park the jalopy at the large clearing there and go up past the winter locked gate at Rd. No. 3..
Keppel's Hut near Lake Mountain is another option for an overnighter in winter . Again wait for some proper snow to fall . At present the Mt. Margaret road is closed AFAIK so you will have wait until DEWLP have finished working up there.
Usually Mt. Margaret road up to the locked winter gate at Lady Talbot road is fine for 2 WD but trees do fall down there on those carriage ways so DEWLP are getting rid of the dead tree fall hazard as best they can.
Access to Keppel's creek camp site may still be open lower down which could be good for two days of activity at Lake Mountain. I need to ring Marysville DEWLP office about that soon.

What about Mt. Torbreck?
There is a camp site of sorts at Barnewall plains. It is Just a flat clearing with a picnic table before the summit track starts in earnest really but Mt. Torbeck is fine for snow shoe trekking. It holds snow quite well on the summit ridge.It is steep in places and will get the heart pumping !
The access by 2 WD coming in from Thornton along well used unsealed logging roads up to the junction with Conn's Gap rd. is fine for 2 WD.
You can get up to Arnold Gap and Snowy Hill car park near Lake Mtn. coming in from Camberville.
You will need a ROOFTOPS map of the area to figure that one out.

[Baeng72]

Thanks PCV! There's a lot of options.
Regarding the bluff, it was only a brain-fart, nowhere near a plan. Just wondering about options.
For a snowshoe walk I was thinking the Klingsporn track from Mirimbah up to Buller and back in a day. Somewhere up high there'd be snow, in the end I went to Feathertop, lugging the snow shoes on the back a lot of the time.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Many people go climbing up the west ridge of Mt. Buller in winter but AFAIK it is not a beginner snow trek in winter. Ice axes and crampons could be necessary.
:-0

[paidal_chalne_vala]

After a huge dump of low level snow The Warburton to Mt. Donna Buang walking track is a snow hiking option.
I still have yet to walk the whole thing from Warburton. It is 1000 M. vertical elevation gain.

Mt. Juliet near Healsville is bleeding steep ( never again ! :-0 ) and would get snow after a snow in strange places ( SISP ) cold front passes through.

Mount Saint Gwinear in the Baw Baw N.P. is worth visiting any time of the year.I have been
up from the Mt. Erica car park to Mt. Erica( Baw Baw N.P. )
in deep snow in snow shoes. It was quite the white season day hike adventure .

[Xplora]

Hi all, three middled aged blokes planning to snow shoe it from Falls Creek car park to the Bogong High Plains in July. We have some hiking and camping experience, suitable gear but I have never snow camped. Thinking of walking to Edmonsons Hut on the first day. Is there a nice three day loop back to the car park? I estimate snow shoes will slow us down and should only be able to walk 10km or so per day. Any tips for navigating and pace setting?

Firstly, welcome to the forum with this post. Not knowing how fast you travel or how long you like to walk in one day, it is a bit hard to comment on distance. It is harder walking in snow but the northern BHP is quite easy walking so you could do more than 10k per day without trouble. Stay off the groomed tracks or you will incur the wrath of skiers but if the tracks are iced over (as they often are in the mornings) don't worry too much as you will not damage them.

Hard to do a loop on that side but it a good place to start some snow camping experience. The advantage of snow cover is you are not restricted to the normal tracks so if you nav skills are good you may be able to work out a bit of loop in some areas. For instance you can nav from Johnsons hut to Kellys or Fitzgeralds. Edmonsons to Ropers hut would not be a full day. At best a half day. If it were me, I would get 9am start from Windy Corner and up Heathy Spur to Ropers hut on the first day. Next day to Johnsons and some off track nav to Fitzgeralds hut which will leave the last day a bit shorter back to Windy corner. If you skip Johnsons then you just follow the signs and stay on the snow covered tracks or roads.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

The OP could also follow the pole lines and go on day one from Windy Corner to Cope Hut via the Aqueduct. Day two
Move onto Cope saddle hut for a snack and then weather permitting continue to Tawonga huts.
Day 3 over to Pretty Valley hut and trek out over the Falls Creek summit on day four.
Choosing a clear weather window will help overall.
If you don't want to pay to park at Falls Creek then starting at Big Hill car park and going up
to Bogong Jack Saddle and up to Tawonga huts and returning the same way is an option.
Also a different trek that would involve snow could involve parking at Clover Arboretum and walking up to Bogong Creek saddle on day one along the aqueduct and tramline . Day 2 Bogong Creek Saddle to Roper Hut.
Day 3 Retrace your steps
Day 4 walk out from Bogong Creek saddle.
When you come out of the treeline on Timm's spur on Big River fire trail the fire trail will not be visible under snow and the pole line is not there until you get closer to Roper's hut.
If you have the navigation skills to do this as the crow flies in a white out then give it a try otherwise the routes suggested by Xplora will be more than adequate and are all linked by pole lines and signage.

[Lophophaps]

The Windy Corner route is certainly viable. One concern is that if the weather is bad on the last day there's a few hours of exposed walking in the Ruined Castle region, with navigation difficulty compounded by a lot of poles. Having the last night at Cope Hut can work as it's sheltered until Langford Gap, then to a lesser extent on the road. Coming from Big Hill Car Park or Clover Arboretum involves significant distance and climbing, with exposed walking after Bogong Jack Saddle. The track on the north side of Fainter North is bushy in places, okay in summer or with a good cover, but with a small cover it could be a bit difficult on snow shoes. At the tree line the next sheltered camping is an hour or so away. There are no snow poles and no huts.

While the west side of the high plains is good, on balance the east side has more appeal. Routes that have less climbing are probably best.

[Baeng72]

Just a question, if one were to hypothetically head up Bogong Jack Saddle and onto the Fainters, would it be quicker to park in Bogong Village and walk up Spring Saddle road (I think that's the name)?
I'm not sure where you'd park in Bogong Village, it looks like there's a carpark with toilets near the Tavern on Google street view, and I think the end of the lake at the picnic ground might work too.

[Lophophaps]

This
https://graphhopper.com/maps/?point=-36 ... i%20Aerial
is from near Bogong Village to the junction just south of The Springs. I cannot get the map to show the start at the bitumen, maybe 10 minutes and 50 metres of climbing extra. Starting from the bitumen it's about 6 kilometres with 500 metres of climbing. There are two starting points, at the elbow where the management track meets the High Plains Road, or a few hundred metres down this road. I do not know if parking is allowed at either place.

This
https://graphhopper.com/maps/?point=-36 ... i%20Aerial
is from the Big Hill Car Park to the junction just south of the Springs, the same one as above. The distance is 6 kilometres with 340 metres of climbing.

On balance I think that Big Hill is quicker. It took me 90 minutes to get from the car park to the high point. The only negative with this way is that the descent from this high point is a bit rough. From just north of The Springs the surface is much smoother. Camping at the start of the walk at Big Hill Car Park means that there's an earlier start.

[Baeng72]

Thanks for that. I thought Big Hill walk started at Mt. Beauty, so seemed a long way from Bogong Jack Saddle.
Where does the road to that carpark leave the BHP road?

[Lophophaps]

A few kilometres out of Mount Beauty is a flat turn to the right, nearly a full circle, around a lump in the middle. My guess is that the High Plains Road went through the gap that is now barricaded, but that it was a hazard. Instead of going on the bitumen to the left, continue more to the right, to point 3. I put the points on the map to stop GraphHopper going up management tracks and other kinds of foolishness. You can see a number of cars parked at Big Hill Car Park.
https://graphhopper.com/maps/?point=-36 ... i%20Aerial

[Baeng72]

Thanks, Google says that corner or whatever is called Cranky Charlie.

[Lophophaps]

My paper map says Cranky Charlie. I should have mentioned this. Geographical features such as rivers, ridges and the bend mentioned above are more definitive - a sign may be down or missed. The road to Big Hill Car Park is 2WD.

[Baeng72]

Thanks, although I commented in the affirmative, it was more a question.
Like: Google says crankie charlie, is that the spot?
Good to know it's 2WD.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Hi.
Cranky charlie corner ( 6 kms from Mt. Beauty )was missing a sign post for a few years. It now has a new one. The Big Hill road is signposted with an Orange DEWLP sign. The winding gravel vehicular track is 2WD in good weather but after a proper snow fall it would be marginal for
2 wd and you would need AT tyres, AWD drive train, chains and a chainsaw.
I have walked both ways up to Bogong Jack saddle from Big Hill car park.
Lops prefers the Big Hill route from the Big Hill Car park. I prefer the West Kiewa Logging road road option.
You can park opposite the Tennis courts at Bogong Village and trek up to the AGL gate from Bogong Village. It is smart to first dump your pack at the gate
where the Spring saddle track commences at the AGL gate and then park the jalopy where I described. A sneaky camp at The Junction picnic ground there allows an earlier start.

The snow shoe Trek or ski over the Fainters could be tricky if the visibility and weather turn to rubbish. If you know the terrain and have confidence in navigation then it should be Okay. The same can be said about the Ruined castle/ Mt. Mckay area of the Falls Creek summit.
Knowing the layout of the Falls Creek summit area there helps. There are temporary pole lines for skiing the Mckay loop and a permanent pole line over the summit. I was
XC skiing up there in clear weather on June 28th 2022.
I have been up there in bad weather and it was disorientating.
The Northern BHP has pole lines connecting each hut and that could be the best way to visit the huts in the area on snow shoes and snow camp starting from Windy Corner .
Another way to reach the BHP is from Kelly's track on the eastern side of the Massif. You would be starting down near Big River bridge campsite. The trek up to Fitzgerald's hut is quite arduous but doable. The final section under snow and in fog would require some navigation skills esp. after you pass the last gate and get into the post fire regrowth area of snow gums up there. The gate at the bottom of Kelly's track is locked to all 4WD traffic except mangement vehicles.
In summer it took me about 6 hours to hike up to Fitzgeral'd hut and I arrived at about 1 pm.
In deep snow it could be slower and usually is on snow shoes.
With a GPS , map and compass it is quite doable IMHO and you 'd get your winter work out for sure !.
If you go up to Roper's hut from Clover arboretum and Bogong Creek saddle then spending more time up there and taking food for 3 extra nights makes more sense to me.
I will do that as 5 day ski trip this year or in 2023 just while my body can still carry me , just to have an adventure and ski out that way.
If you are a nutter then starting at Bogong Village and going up Black Possum spur to Mt. Arthur would be worthy of a medal. You would have to melt snow for water by the time you reach the top.
The Grey Hills track was cleared at some stage and was easy to follow when I was up there in Nov. 2021. Under snow it would be interesting but still tough.So much up and down.A bail out point could be Bogong Creek saddle which has water and camp sites and the Big River fire trail back to the Falls Creek road.
It is steep going down Mt. Arthur to the old helipad.

[Xplora]

Another way to reach the BHP is from Kelly's track on the eastern side of the Massif. You would be starting down near Big River bridge campsite. The trek up to Fitzgerald's hut is quite arduous but doable. The final section under snow and in fog would require some navigation skills esp. after you pass the last gate and get into the post fire regrowth area of snow gums up there. The gate at the bottom of Kelly's track is locked to all 4WD traffic except mangement vehicles.
In summer it took me about 6 hours to hike up to Fitzgeral'd hut and I arrived at about 1 pm.
In deep snow it could be slower and usually is on snow shoes.
With a GPS , map and compass it is quite doable IMHO and you 'd get your winter work out for sure !.

I have done this many times over the last 20 or so years and it is not that hard as long as you don't carry your house on your back. You can park your car at the start of Kellys track *(junction with Fitzgeralds Road) so not sure why you would start from Big River Campground and walk an extra hour. From memory it is about 10.5km from Shannonvale to Fitzgeralds hut. The snowline is usually about half way and it is a management track all the way. Even under snow or in a whiteout you can pick it out. It does get a bit narrow after the junction of the aqueduct track but that is only about 1km or less to the hut. The odd geographically challenged person may have some problem. The grade is moderate but it is uphill nearly all the way. All that can be avoided if you are happy to pay the resort entry and parking.

The Grey Hills track was cleared at some stage and was easy to follow when I was up there in Nov. 2021. Under snow it would be interesting but still tough.So much up and down.A bail out point could be Bogong Creek saddle which has water and camp sites and the Big River fire trail back to the Falls Creek road.
It is steep going down Mt. Arthur to the old helipad.

I have never done the Grey Hills in winter but have a number of times in summer. Also not very difficult but a little exposed. Certainly rolling hills but none are very long. Mt. Arthur is steep from its top to the helipad but the whole of the Grey Hills reminds me of a little Crosscut Saw. This would make a nice loop walk from Falls Creek with a bit of experience under your belt. From Bogong Creek saddle to the Big River Crossing and up Timms Spur to Ropers then back to Falls Creek.

[Baeng72]

Stupid question, but where are the tennis courts in Bogong Village? I've look on google maps, seen the tavern and amenities there. See a few other things, but no idea where tennis courts are. I guess it's a small town, and you'd notice them if you were looking.

[GBW]

https://www.google.com/maps/@-36.807371 ... 328!8i1664

[paidal_chalne_vala]

The tennis courts at Bogong village are just near the Junction picnic ground. You drive down into the village and veer right , up stream of Rocky Valley creek and Lake Guy.There is parking opposite the tennis courts. You can continue , drive over a bridge and park at the picnic ground if you prefer.
There is a flushing loo there.
The walk up to Bogong Jack saddle is all in the tree line on a clear bench cut sign
posted fire trail and offers good views on a clear day.You can do a day trip with a day pack up to the Fainters using Bogong Jack saddle as base.I have done that as well as in Nov. 2021 with heavy fog and in minimal visibility , we hiked over the Fainters to have Lunch at Tawonga huts as part of the Bogong Village to Bogong Village BHP walking tour over 5 days.
The fire trail above the tree line won't
be obvious under snow but the Fainters and their summits will be on your right and Mt. Feathertop will be on your right as you head from Mt. Fainter North
( I think ) to Mt. Fainter south ( the higher of two trig point/ cairns on the ridge, The one closer to the Jaithmathangs).
In regards to Shannonvale to Fitzgerald hut generally Xplora is right and the simplest way is to pay and park at Falls Creek and avoid the slog and just follow to the Pole lines from Watch bed creek to Fitzgerald hut.
If you do that then take extra stove fuel to melt snow because the water sources near Fitzgerald hut are not obviously immediately near the hut.

[Baeng72]

Thank you. I know it was stupid question, My street view skills are clearly lacking.
It's something that will be handy in the future, most likely green season, if do a loop up past the Fainters, over to BHP, then down Spion Kopje Fire trail with the bits in between to be decided.
I'm thinking of trying out some new Yaktrax somewhere near Buller in the next week or two, should the stars align.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

IMHO the next proper snow fall could occur on July 9th. The following period including the weekend of July 17th could be feasible for a jaunt.
To save money and keep things simple I can recommend the Carter's road/ Tomahawk Gap/ Rd. No.3 / Hut No.3 trip. You return the same way . The route is signposted and the hut is a modern and a comfortable place to cook and dry out gear after the sun sets.The pot belly stove warms the hut up efficiently . There is a pit loo there plus a water tank.
Take snow camping gear or start early just go fast and light and visit the hut as a day hike.
The rub here for that plan is that AFAIK Carter's road camping area is still closed by DEWLP. It looks like they have finished the works there and made the camp site flat on two split levels but the gate was shut when we were
there during June 2022 for a ski trip to Mt. Stirling.
You could pitch a tent at Tomahawk gap ( BYO water and trowel for digging a latrine ) or park off the side of Carter's road and walk into camp at Tomahawk hut which is not that far , but not suitable for 2 WD access, IMHO.