Falls Creek to Mt Hotham Alpine Crossing

[north-north-west]

It's what the people with money want, and they aren't the majority. The trouble is they do have the loudest voice and the most power.

[vicrev]

It's what the people with money want, and they aren't the majority. The trouble is they do have the loudest voice and the most power.

I agree with what you are saying NNW but I am starting to think the majority do not give a fat rats about carving up the pristine,as apposed to glamping/camping with all the bells & whistles ,home away from home......It's a whole new market for the fat cats....

[paidal_chalne_vala]

The reason the VNPA are going softly softly behind the scenes on this issue is that they think if they make a big noise some knuckle draggers will suddenly hear about the planned development and think " Hey that is good idea, they should build it ,so I can go there with my coke and fries family , stay in a nice hut with TV etc. and not have to carry a pack ".

[Lophophaps]

It's entirely possible to win against money and vested interests. I've done this many times - often in court - in consumer and other matters against companies worth over $100 million, when challenging many government agencies, and smaller companies. I win because I have sound cases and know the law.

For environmental issues it's just a question of stating the facts and having an implicit threat of making the proposal look foolish. Social media can assist. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Breaks_Guitars
for what happened to United. One man with a guitar brought United down.

Most people care about nature. They may not feel strongly but it's there. Compare the number of rich people who can afford $500 or so for Three Capes and the rest. There are more votes at the ballot box in the latter, and governments know this. On government decision many years ago was set in concrete, will not change. We changed it with just 76 letters. Governments hate to look like bad economic managers, so stress this point.

I totally refuse to give in to anyone or any entity that goes against my environmental beliefs. Some things are worth fighting for. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke. The Falls-Hotham proposal is hardly evil but it's bad. There's enough information above for any interested bushwalker to make a strong stance. My submission took maybe two hours spread over a week or so, perhaps15 minutes a day, not hard. As I said above, what's stopping you?

[stry]

The reason the VNPA are going softly softly behind the scenes on this issue is that they think if they make a big noise some knuckle draggers will suddenly hear about the planned development and think " Hey that is good idea, they should build it ,so I can go there with my coke and fries family , stay in a nice hut with TV etc. and not have to carry a pack ".

PCV I agree with this as an initial approach. Certainly an opening approach of a big noise can be counter productive.

However, In a situation like this one, which appears to be developing into a done deal with no consultation, "softly, softly" needs to develop into "kick harder".

The need to kick harder for a favourable outcome is looking like outweighing any concerns about the possible user group to which you refer.

[sambar358]

Well.....finally reveived an acknowledgement of my submission from Cameron Bergmeier Project Manager – Master Planning, Visitor Experiences. (that title sounds like the entertainment officer on a cruise ship !)

In part it stated this : " Thank you for your submission on the development of the Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing Master Plan. We have received a number of excellent responses which will help us shape the future development of this iconic walk. Please note that the public consultation process will remain open until the 11th December 2015. After this time the project team will review the responses received and make amendments to the plan where required. A final public exhibition period will follow shortly after where we will again welcome your feedback. Thank you once again for your interest in the development of the Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing Master Plan.

Note my highlights : sounds to me like something's going ahead like-it-or not ! Submissions will be accepted until December 11th 2015.....anyone interested should make the effort and put their thoughs on it in writing by then. Cheers

s358

[Lophophaps]

Sambar358, it looks like the plan will go ahead. Not good. A short time ago I received an acknowledgement:
"Thanks for your email submission on the development of the Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing Master Plan.

"I have noted your request to review the economic component of the project. This piece of work is programmed to commence early in the new year. The consultant team will work this up with Parks Victoria and make it available to the public for comment in mid-2016.

If you have any further queries regarding the development of the master plan please do not hesitate to contact me."

That is, the current plan is devoid of an economic basis, and will not be available for six month! Merde. This is economic madness. The usual planning process starts with an idea, and as options are explored the economics are examined. There are three sorts of preliminary economic results, with three actions:
1 Figures do not stack up at all, so drop the plan.
2 Figures may stack up, need more information, so obtain that information.
3 It's clearly an economic winner, so firm the figures and proceed.

Instead of this the powers that be decide that a Falls-Hotham scheme is needed and start the planning, with no economic justification. This is totally insane, a gross waste of time and effort for all concerned. I very strongly suspect that the plan will be pretty well locked in by mid-2016 and the lack of an economic basis will be brushed aside. Either that or the financial analysis will be shrouded in mystery due to commercial in confidence aspects. Maybe the time to comment on the economics will be short. I do not know.

Methinks it's time for some very hard comments about the waste of money to date and abysmal financial and economic management skills of those involved. I''l be making a supplementary submission. Hope my modem does not catch fire.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Hi
I got a response from PV via e mail to my submission/s. The wording suggested it is all as good as built and we can smell the glove and talk to the hand !

I have written by snail mail via reg. post to the environment minister in the State Labourals government. I have emailed the shadow minister for the environment. It is Quite an Orwellian title really considering what the previous LNP gov.t did with the environment and National Parks in general during their one term in office and what the Labourals are doing now.
I am going to contact Phil Ingamells ( spelling ? ) at the VNPA and find out what they are up to . This is madness and the developers are messing with an area that is not to be messed with unless they want to have a war with me, I am not a happy chappy !

[north-north-west]

This attitude from the Government only makes sense if there is big private money doing a lot of pushing from behind the scenes. There's obviously much more to it than we've been told.

[sim1oz]

If this one goes ahead, be prepared for Croajingolong National Park to be next. When this thread started I googled "Victoria inconic walks" and in a number of places it said that there were going to four of them (GOW, Grampians Peak, Falls to Hotham, and Croajingolong). Now that I am looking for those things again it seems that mention of 'four' and 'Croajingolong' has all but disappeared. See: http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/visit/walk-victorias-icons

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but there is apparently a 10-year trails strategy... VICTORIA'S TRAILS STRATEGY 2014–24 - Tourism Victoria - see https://www.tourism.vic.gov.au/component/edocman/?view=document&task=document.download&id=748. This was released in July 2014 before the change of government.

See page 34:Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing
(November-April)
The Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing follows a
beautiful section of the Australian Alps Walking
Track, one of the world’s great alpine walks
stretching 680 km from Walhalla to Canberra.
The Alpine National Park is a spectacular setting
for cross-country hiking. This Icon Walk features
a 37 km trek between Falls Creek and Mount
Hotham Alpine Resorts. Suitable for experienced
walkers, the trail winds its way along alpine ridges
through snow gum woodlands and snow grass
plains, over rocky summits and past historic huts.
The huts along the route provide a glimpse into
the history of the High Country and any number
of wildlife can be encountered – from pygmy
possums to wild brumbies and emus. Work is
currently underway to develop a master plan that
will strengthen this tourism product.

See page 35: Coastal Wilderness Walk
The Coastal Wilderness Walk extends over
120 km from Marlo to Mallacoota in East
Gippsland. This walk features a magnificent
stretch of coastline in the Croajingolong
National Park. Currently it is a grade four walk
and only experienced and suitably equipped
hikers are recommended to undertake this
remote walk. The focus of future planning will
be on a 40 km section that will start at Tamboon
Inlet and finish at Wingan Inlet. Existing walking
tracks and associated infrastructure will be
upgraded to provide a sustainable and high
quality walk. In time it is intended that this trail
will be of international significance and become
an ‘Icon Walk’.


This is the sort of thing I would have expected from the Coalition... oh, turns out that is where it started... so they are unlikely to stand against it now. It is really up to other parties and independent politicians. Aaaarg!!! Lopahops suggestion of focusing on the economic viability sounds like it will carry the most weight.

[peregrinator]

This attitude from the Government only makes sense if there is big private money doing a lot of pushing from behind the scenes. There's obviously much more to it than we've been told.

That appears to be an accurate judgement. I thought this link http://architectureau.com/articles/adam-nitschke-profile/ in the post by JulianS on page one of this thread revealed a lot. The services of such professionals ain't cheap. Then there's the oh-so-beautiful illustrated map at http://www.tourismnortheast.com.au/wp-content/uploads/439MU-FHAC-A0-posterreduced.pdf. Tells us nothing we don't already know but saves the investors from actually having to get out their cars and have a look.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I have gone in harder with a follow up series of e mails to these rock apes and vandals. Thanks to other posters for helping with some of the arguments and wording.

"Dear Sir/Madam
I have not seen any proof or publicly available and costed figures in an economic model that suggests that this planned development is remotely economically viable.
That is to say without such real researched evidence that can be publicly viewed the current plan is devoid of an economic basis.
Now I hear that such evidence or results will not be available for six months!.

This is economic madness. The usual planning process starts with an idea, and as options are explored and the economics are examined. There are three sorts of preliminary economic results, with three actions:
1 Figures do not stack up at all, so drop the plan.
2 Figures may stack up, need more information, so obtain that information.
3 It's clearly an economic winner, so firm the figures and proceed.

Instead of this, it seems that the powers that be have already decided that a Falls-Hotham scheme is needed and have started the planning and execution , with no economic justification.
This is totally insane, a gross waste of time and effort for all concerned. I very strongly suspect that the plan will be pretty well locked in by mid-2016 and the lack of an economic basis will be brushed aside.
Either that or the financial analysis will be shrouded in mystery due to so called commercial in confidence aspects.
. I must say that without any publicly available evidence proving that such a development is economically viable , I am flabbergasted by the the waste of money to date and abysmal financial and economic management skills of those involved in such a plan .
More than that , once a place of unspoiled natural beauty is developed, its intrinsic natural beauty and untamed character is lost forever. National parks are not for un costed developments and wonky investments. They are for conservation of biodiversity for centuries to come.
Yours Sincerely"

[Lophophaps]

This attitude from the Government only makes sense if there is big private money doing a lot of pushing from behind the scenes. There's obviously much more to it than we've been told.

I think so. Please note that if you write to a parliamentarian there is no obligation for a reply to be sent. If you write to a public servant thre is an obligation to reply, and a non-reply can be investigated by the state or commonwealth ombudsman. Hence, while it certainly assists to write to parliamentarians, contacting the most senior public servant is also indicated as they simply cannot brush off the contact. After a while the replies tend to be pro forma, especially if the questions are good.

Be reasonable, always polite and ask very tough questions. Do not accept BS answers or a a delay. Give them 28 days to reply and say which day. I invariably say that a reply by 3 pm on (date) would be appreciated.

I have gone in harder with a follow up series of e mails to these rock apes and vandals. Thanks to other posters for helping with some of the arguments and wording.

Pow, wallop. well done. More like this will assist.

[stry]

Well for once the trend of recent times to label anything and everything, including people, an "icon" or "iconic"without any understanding of the meaning of the word(s) has generated some unintentionally accurate use of the word by the proponents of this foolishness.

An icon is an image or a representation (Oxford will give it you in full). so an "icon walk" will be an image of a walk - no reality, that will be lost with the exploitation, just an image, or a representation, of what was.

How's that for ironic ? Sorry, not helpful - just venting. Where are you NNW ?

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I have sent a 5 page typed snail mail letter to the State minister for the environment by reg. post. I am getting ready for round two with demanding deadlines for replies from these vandals, rock apes and servants of Satan and all.
ding ding ,
round two.
Cue the "Rocky" theme!

[north-north-west]

Where are you NNW ?

In two states right now. Tasmania and high dudgeon.

[Lophophaps]

An icon is an image or a representation (Oxford will give it you in full). so an "icon walk" will be an image of a walk - no reality, that will be lost with the exploitation, just an image, or a representation, of what was.

How's that for ironic ? Sorry, not helpful - just venting. Where are you NNW ?

LOL. I think that's a brilliant explanation. But why stop there? Can we not have something that avoids the drudgery of climbing mountains, adverse weather (temperature below 17 C and above 29 C), camping on ... yuk ... the ground, air untainted by pollution, etc? Perhaps PV can work on virtual reality, or avatars, so we can get to remote peaks like Kosciuszko without the the trauma of a long chairlift ride and a longer walk across the wilderness.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

A Go in hard and don't let him wriggle out of it Follow up snail mail letter to
Cameron what's his face at PV has been written and is soon to be reg. posted.

[Xplora]

I found this at the Falls Creek page http://www.fallscreek.com.au/attraction ... 01/12/2015 but the web page for the company running the tours will not load. http://www.evolveadventures.com.au It could be my crappy internet but I think the page is not up and running as yet. I have sent an email to them requesting information. I have no objection to the idea of a guided walk and people making money out of it. My partner and I were chatting the other day about why someone had not put a coffee cart at the Falls creek carpark to service all the bikes then lo and behold it appears. Maybe more will appear on the walk if it gets popular. Just being silly.

[vicrev]

Coffee cart every 200 metres sounds good...coffee lovers have rights too...

[Xplora]

Coffee cart every 200 metres sounds good...coffee lovers have rights too...

I wonder what a coffee addict would pay for a good coffee out there. I was guiding an ortho surgeon one day (trout fishing) and asked if he wanted a coffee. He said no until I brought out my little expresso stove top and we both had a short black. Maybe I could make some money. With another company I worked for we had to backpack an entire gourmet meal in for a large group of millionaires doing a walk in the Blue Mtns. Some of them were upset their very new and white joggers were getting dirty. Pity about the leaches and rain as well.

[Sandbars]

I found this at the Falls Creek page http://www.fallscreek.com.au/attraction ... 01/12/2015 but the web page for the company running the tours will not load. http://www.evolveadventures.com.au It could be my crappy internet but I think the page is not up and running as yet. I have sent an email to them requesting information. I have no objection to the idea of a guided walk and people making money out of it. My partner and I were chatting the other day about why someone had not put a coffee cart at the Falls creek carpark to service all the bikes then lo and behold it appears. Maybe more will appear on the walk if it gets popular. Just being silly.

Evolve seem quite awesome actually! More info on their tours here: http://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/falls-cr ... 5489790110 and evolve here: http://www.evolve.org.au/

[Lophophaps]

The Evolve walk concerns me somewhat. They mention staying at Cope Hut, "arriving at Cope Hut for the evening." My understanding is that commercial groups are not allowed to use public huts. Secondly, there is a reference to Diamantina Horseyards in the West Kiewa near Blairs. Is there such a place as Diamantina Horseyards? Finally, they gloss over the somewhat significant climb out of the West Kiewa to Dibbins and Loch car park. They think this can be done "Now that we are walk fit". Mmm, might not walk tired equally apply? The first two days are mainly flat and downhill, not very far at all.

This may well be commercialisation by stealth. If so, not happy.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I have emailed
The Vic. state head of the Greens too.
<<greg.barber@parliament.vic.gov.au>>
The "effers " will rue the day they decided to pave paradise and put up a parking lot!!

[paidal_chalne_vala]

The average knuckle dragger who seldom hikes anywhere ( let alone in the Alpine N.P.) is not fit enough to ascend or descend both Weston's hut spur and the Diamantina spur two days in a row back to back carrying a pack. Ditto for Swindler's spur and/or Machinery Spur . It just isn't going to happen!!

[north-north-west]

It's not particularly stealthy.

I do recall horseyards down near Blairs but 'Diamantina' is not the name. West Kiewa, maybe. My maps don't show them.

[north-north-west]

They go down past Weston's, not up. Still, it's going to take more than a short easy day of flat terrain and a longer mostly downhill toddle to get fit enough to cope with climb up Diamantina, no matter how the track is aligned. (edit: I'm reading the wrong blurb, obviously. This one doesn't mention Diamantina, they go up Swindlers on that loop.)

They'll probably only be carrying daypacks. No food (except snacks), stove, fuel, tent. Minimal water.

"Rise and shine on a crisp High Plains morning..."
I look forward to them explaining how they can guarantee the weather will co-operate.

[Mark F]

They don't go up Diamantina Spur.

... climb out of the Kiewa Valley to Mt Hotham past Dibbin’s and Derrick Huts via Swindlers Spur.

[Xplora]

They don't go up Diamantina Spur.

... climb out of the Kiewa Valley to Mt Hotham past Dibbin’s and Derrick Huts via Swindlers Spur.

The realignment of this walk as proposed will take it up Diamantina spur to accommodation at High Knob. Also the blurb about the Evolve walk states Feathertop is Australia's second highest peak. It is only Victoria's second highest. Camping at Cope Hut will be on the stupid platforms they have erected and not in the hut. I have no problem with these guys running guided walks along the track and it does support a worthy cause. Their walk does not involve environmental vandalism but it seems others have different ideas.

[Mark F]

Xplora - I know that the proposed "icon walk" is intended to go up Diamantina Spur but I was quoting the web page linked by Sandbar. In reading that page I did not see anything that suggested the walks run by Evolve would climb Diamantina Spur now or in the future. I also haven't seen anything that says the icon proposal is a realignment of the recently upgraded Falls - Hotham Crossing but I have not read the proposal documents other than what is on this thread.

As a person who was involved in the establishment of the Cradle Huts walk I have mixed feelings about the proposal but understand the pro and anti arguments pretty well.

It's a pity NSW bagged all the high peaks.