Craig's Hut Question

[fixa]

Hi All;
Planning on hiking shortly from Telephone Box Junction to Craig's hut. I've found lots of stuff about the walk online, but I can't work out how far it is! Looking at the map i'm guessing 10-12kms? Anyone with some experience here?
Thanks again for an awesome resource.

[walkon]

Yeah that's about right. You do have to have snow shoes on to walk above tbj during snow season though. It is a lovely walk and very photogenic if the weather is good. Do you have all the winter gear for this trip?

[fixa]

Yeah that's about right. You do have to have snow shoes on to walk above tbj during snow season though. It is a lovely walk and very photogenic if the weather is good. Do you have all the winter gear for this trip?

Thanks for the info.
Yes i have the gear, and will be hiring shoes from TBJ. Looking forward to it!

[wildbird]

Yes mate the distance is just 10km. I did a daily return trip from TBJ 2 weeks ago and the GPS recorded 20.34 km. The tracks are well marked and fairly easy, I found that flexible crampons (chains with small claws) performed better than snowshoes. You still need to purchase the ticket for your car to enter the entrance of Mt Buller though (not fair ) Remember to carry snow chains with you otherwise you may be asked to hire one from the store.

[fixa]

Yes mate the distance is just 10km. I did a daily return trip from TBJ 2 weeks ago and the GPS recorded 20.34 km. The tracks are well marked and fairly easy, I found that flexible crampons (chains with small claws) performed better than snowshoes. You still need to purchase the ticket for your car to enter the entrance of Mt Buller though (not fair ) Remember to carry snow chains with you otherwise you may be asked to hire one from the store.

Perfect, Thanks Wildbird.
Yeah i saw that you have to pay, I did notice on the Mt Buller website they offer 1/2 price car entry between 7-8am on the weekends for july and august, since we are staying in Mansfield the night before we will do that. That entry also includes entry to Stirling apparently. Thanks for the heads up about chains, I got some a few months ago when Aldi had their snow sale. Quite good quality and very easy to fit too, much easier than some hire ones i've had in the past.
RE: Crampons. I'll be hiring snow shoes since I don't have any, do they also hire the crampons at TBJ?
Thanks Again.

[Franco]

You can get white outs at Mt Sterling so make sure you take good note of where the snow poles line is.

[fixa]

You can get white outs at Mt Sterling so make sure you take good note of where the snow poles line is.

Cheers Franco.
Is the western summit trail more protected?

We were looking at going on Sunday, forecast doesn't look awesome, slight improvement in the afternoon, worst case i guess we don't get as far as Craig's on the first day.

[neilmny]

Yes it is except from the north.
It doesn't go over the summit just around the summit about 100 metres below.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I was on the summit of Mt. Stirling with a VNPA snow shoe trekking group under my esteemed leadership on Sat. July 25th 2015. The summit was in a white out and we just stuck together and followed the snow pole line over to the GGS hut. King Spur hut was warm and welcoming. There was about 45 Cm of snow at Bluff Spur hut and about 20 CM at the Cricket pitch. It was snowing solidly all afternoon above 1400 M. During the w/end I lost one of my extension fins / tails from my snow shoes and an icebreaker glove. Bummer. I can't just buy one as a replacement.

[walkerchris77]

My best mate got engaged at craigs hut. ... very romantic.
He got devoriced in Melbourne. Not so romantic.

[north-north-west]

He got devoriced in Melbourne.

That sounds painful.

[fixa]

Well we ended up doing the trip that weekend. Had snowshoes and put them on about half way up stirling. By the time we got to Bluff Spur hut it was snowing. Had lunch, then started towards Craig's. Missed a trail marker (32, its hidden a bit and if your not paying attention...) and ended up at King Spur hut. decided we didn't really have enough time to push on after the detour, the knowledge that GGS was occupied with a school group, we spent a warm night in the hut with the very noisy mice. Made it to Craig's the next day, had snow all the way there, and spent the night in the tents. Very cold (-6) but warm in the bag. Walked out the next day, 4.5 hours Craig's to TBJ. Much easier going this way, although the final climb up to GGS in soft snow is tough. I'm an unfit *&%$#! so found it reasonably hard going, but made it! I wanted snow, and we got that for sure. The only disappointment was the poor visibility limiting our sight seeing.

[bailz66]

Planning to do this with my 8 year old daughter at the beginning of August (Assuming weather is clear). We did some x country/overnight camping last year at Hotham and she absolutely loved it.

This year we wanted to make our way out to Craig's hut, she is super keen for X country skiing rather than show shoes. Is it doable? I believe getting to the top of Stirling will be easy and much of the trail over to Craigs is ok, I am just worried about the big hills near Monument. Will it be possible to remove the skiis and walk it without snow shoes and Crampons or are we just asking for trouble.

We will have 3 days and 2 nights to complete the walk/ski.

Cheers in advance!

[Lophophaps]

There's a couple of aspects that concern me. First, there need to be two adults in the party. What if the one adult has a prang? Second, a child has less reserves of stamina than an adult. The remedy for this is short days, and the days will be short in any case, say 9 am to 4 pm. However, in the cold this could be demanding. There's also less resistance to cold. Third, reasonable skiing skills may be needed, anything from powder to ice. Can she manage side-slipping, plough turns in any conditions, and maybe parallel turns, all with a pack? Unless ice climbing I've never carried anthing spiky. If there's ice I manage, ski or walk around, or go back. The Hotham camping sounds like a good start.

[Avatar]

Sounds ambitious. It's a black run from GGS Hut at the beginning of the Craigs Hut track. Steep. Razorback Hut via Circuit Rd might be a better option for an 8 yr old or a camp at King Saddle shelter???

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I have just returned from Mt Stirling .
I enjoyed my 2 nights solo snow trip at Mt Stirling in snow shoes.
It was raining at Mt Stirling on Sunday when I got there at about 1.30 pm and all the snow that had fallen on Thursday and Friday had become wet .Chains were not required to be fitted to 2 WD cars.
. That rain made the snow wet and soft . The snow was 50 cms deep at the Bluff spur hut.Slogging it up the hill in snow shoes with a full pack , 4kms from the car park at 1200 M to 1600 M was a real work out .
I snow camped on Sunday night. The snow turned to ice overnight and yesterday once you hit about 1600 M it was very icy and you could hardly see the next pole on the summit pole line so there were no views , more like a whiteout. Just walking out the door of the hut was slippery so I was wearing micro spikes or snow shoes to avoid falling over near the hut/ tent/ water tank/ dunny .
The Snow shoe trek, yesterday from The Bluff Spur hut at Mt Stirling to Craig's hut (10 km return) was tough because of the up /down hill factor and the deep soft snow. 10 kms in snow shoes is like 20 kms in boots in summer.
I did the whole thing at full pace , with no rest stops en route in about 5.5 hours including Lunch at Craig's hut.
In winter the jeep roads are all shut so only skiers , snow shoe hikers and a snow mobile can get out there. The view of Mt. Cobbler was not available because of heavy cloud over the King River valley.
There was almost complete continuous snow cover from GGS hut to Craig’s hut . There were Only two or three patches of exposed 4 WD track .
It is not patrolled by the ski patrol or groomed so I was on my own (it is a bit spooky and a bit scary on my own :-0 ) and hiking through some remote snow gum bush and breaking a fresh trail there and back on virgin soft snow.
That is physically taxing.
It was so cold as I neared the top of the steep ascent to the proximity of the grammar school hut on the Clear hills trail that my camera froze and refused to operate. I wanted to take some pictures of the ice on the leaves of the snow gum trees.
Coming back over the summit pole line heading for home at the Bluff spur Hut I slipped/tripped over and landed heavily on my right knee .I just bruised it badly on solid ice. I was lucky and I got off lightly.
Skiers break bones on that ice. I thought I need to put some ice on that when I get back. ;-P
Fortunately I had a ready supply ! .I did eat some pain killers and went off to bed early after lighting the fire, putting on dry thermals and eating a huge hot dinner .
I stayed/ slept in the hut with the fire going last night . I was the only one there. It was like my own snowy holiday hut.
It was snowing this morning as I was packing up and it kept snowing until I descended to about 1400 M.
Today 5/7/16 The trail on the Upper Bluff spur trail has good cover but there are hazards opening up here and there , a few bare patches and lower down once you leave the snow gums it is icy and sketchy and not really much chop.
My sore knee from the icy mini tumble on Monday on The summit pole line near the Howqua trail / Bluff spur hut trail junction came good this morning and I made it back to TBJ with no drama.
Mt Stirling is Most excellent .

[paidal_chalne_vala]

In relation to the other poster's question. It is beyond the physical capacity of an 8 year old venture out to Craig's hut in full snow cover and back in the limited amount of day light that white season provides. The ski run is too tricky and in snow shoes it is a huge effort in ungroomed , soft snow with plenty of tough up hill sections.
The issues and possibilities of exhaustion, hypothermia, becoming lost in fog and safety all come into consideration.
The Ski patroller told me when I got back to TBJ that they take the skidoo out on that trail fortnightly just to keep the way passable in the event of any kind emergency. Craig's hut is cold and windy inside and not a good place for lunch . If it is cloudy then there are not many views. The last push , back up Mt Stirling to GGS hut on the way back is a ball breaker in snow shoes and soft uncompressed snow cover.
Much stamina , experience and confidence in one's own fitness and ability to keep warm , moving and hydrated are all factors in a white season day trip out there. I made my self absolutely fang it so I could be back at the GGS hut by 2.30 pm and back at the Bluff spur hut by 4 pm at the latest.

[bailz66]

Hey,

Thanks heaps for the replies, it gives me a bit to think about. On the first reply, there is no way I would consider doing this with just one adult. I plan to have 3 adults and if its just the two of us we would adjust our trip plan for safety. I wouldn't say she is a skilled skier which was the purpose of the post, I wanted to assess weather taking her skis off for those hills would be possible. Mild hills and flat terrain she is fine with but I just don't know how steep it is on the trail. I am fairly experienced with the snow having grown up in the Vic Alps and skiing all my life. Camped in blizzard conditions and have had to deal with emergencies so I am comfortable there. For the trip out to Craigs our plan was to bring tent, bags, food for overnight in case something unplanned happened.

By the sound of it however, its going to be too much effort to make it with my Daughter, so we will probably stick to the skis but adjust our trails and spend a night on Stirling in the patrolled area itself. If somehow I get 4 days instead of 3 I may adjust this to head out in two days and back in two days. Makes it 5km days, she has done 16km with a pack over Hotham and Falls (Summer) so I am confident that she could manage this.

Alternatively we may do Falls Creek and head out to Pretty Valley or Towonga (Say hi to Moondog perhaps).

Loved all

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I don't ski but sections of the Clear hills trail are rated as double black diamond runs. In un groomed snow with exposed hazards anyone on skis would have to be rather skilled and brave to take that on .

[bailz66]

Wasn't aware it was double black. Thought it was just black. I drove it this summer to check it out in preperation and decided there was no way to ski it. Thats why I was wondering if it was possible to ski the easier trails then take skis off and walk that section (Down and Up the other side)

[neilmny]

I don't ski but sections of the Clear hills trail are rated as double black diamond runs. In un groomed snow with exposed hazards anyone on skis would have to be rather skilled and brave to take that on .

PVC, was there a sign indicating this or is it just a judgement on what you experienced on your trip?

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Hi,
The Mt. Stirling trail map shows the top of the Clear Hills trail to be rated as The Most difficult and it is not groomed and it remains un patrolled.. Even Stanley Bowl only gets one black diamond along with the insane descent down to the Howqua Gap hut.
I snow shoe trekked the whole thing on Monday 4th July 2016 . It was soft, deep , steep and tough going down and more so back up .The final ascent on the return leg was a nutcracker.
There were also a few exposed hazards lower down on the outward trip to Craig's hut and a couple of exposed 4WD track sections.
If I didn't have snow shoes and poles with ski baskets on the ends then I would have sunk up to my knees . It would have been a real test then.
I was rogered by the time I went all the way out to Craig's hut and back to the Bluff Spur hut ,via the GGS hut for a pit stop.

[neilmny]

Most difficult in cross country terms is just that. Somewhat greater skills required than blue (more difficult rating) and really a place for fairly competent skiers.
I think he bigger issue is that it is an ungroomed and unpatrolled area.
Having walked the Howqua Gap track from the top to Howqua Gap a couple of times and as an experienced but not "expert" skier, I wouldn't hesitate to ski it. One would have to ski to the conditions as is the case wherever one skis. I haven't done any snowshoeing but I imagine it is somewhat different to skiing.
For a person who has been taught to ski it is not an out of control plummet wherever gravity takes you, you should give it a crack PCV it's a great way to get around.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I do plan to have XC ski lesson this season. Maybe at Lake Mountain which is mainly flat.

[walkon]

Hey,

Thanks heaps for the replies, it gives me a bit to think about. On the first reply, there is no way I would consider doing this with just one adult. I plan to have 3 adults and if its just the two of us we would adjust our trip plan for safety. I wouldn't say she is a skilled skier which was the purpose of the post, I wanted to assess weather taking her skis off for those hills would be possible. Mild hills and flat terrain she is fine with but I just don't know how steep it is on the trail. I am fairly experienced with the snow having grown up in the Vic Alps and skiing all my life. Camped in blizzard conditions and have had to deal with emergencies so I am comfortable there. For the trip out to Craigs our plan was to bring tent, bags, food for overnight in case something unplanned happened.

By the sound of it however, its going to be too much effort to make it with my Daughter, so we will probably stick to the skis but adjust our trails and spend a night on Stirling in the patrolled area itself. If somehow I get 4 days instead of 3 I may adjust this to head out in two days and back in two days. Makes it 5km days, she has done 16km with a pack over Hotham and Falls (Summer) so I am confident that she could manage this.

Alternatively we may do Falls Creek and head out to Pretty Valley or Towonga (Say hi to Moondog perhaps).

Loved all

Hey Bailz

I've been up Stirling a bit over the last couple of weeks and have spoken to two families who have taken their children to Craigs. Both families had a ball doing this and consisted of 2 adults, one with 3 kids and the other 4. Both had the youngest around 8 yo.

One made it a four day trip. Overnights at Bluff Hut, Craigs and GGS huts. While the other got the wagon up to Kings Saddle then went straight to Craigs with a two day return trip, overnighting at Bluff Hut on the way back.

In regards to the issue of taking skis off and walking the steep bits. This walk is at a low elevation snow wise and so the snow conditions are variable. At this height, usually it is the track that gets icy if it was going to. So walking on the sides overcomes this, as you should be doing anyway.

All depends on your skills and confidence really. Good to see that your getting out with her.

[Lophophaps]

I do plan to have XC ski lesson this season. Maybe at Lake Mountain which is mainly flat.

When instructing I always looked for a wide hill, steeper at the top, with good runouts, not too many other people, and no obstacles. The slope is needed to learn turns, notably the plough turn but maybe a parrallel turn if the people and conditions are right. Start low and as confidence increases the student get higher. The runouts are crucial so that the students can slide to a halt on a flat, and not disappear into the wilderness. Crowded slopes are bad and scary for beginners. Obstacles are not much fun to run into (rock, steel and wood), over (ditches and rocks just under the surface) or through (light scrub). People are softer to hit but usually object. From memory, Lake Mountain is very short of such places. The slopes are generally too gentle, and the few that are even vaguely suitable have heaps of people, like Marys Slide and the top of the return track, can't recall the name. Others are narrow and short.

StGwinear has some good camping a short way up from the car park, with a number of good flat and sloping areas. The fun begins at the car park, climbing for 45 minutes on skis that have a mind of their own. The return journey is faster.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I do go to MSG in the snow some winters and I do know the basic idea behind stopping using the snow plough , having watched XC skiers so often. However MSG is 3 hours away by car , one way , so I would take a full pack and snow camp If I were to go there . Last year it was a long day on the road for a day trip.

[bailz66]

Hey,

Thanks heaps for the replies, it gives me a bit to think about. On the first reply, there is no way I would consider doing this with just one adult. I plan to have 3 adults and if its just the two of us we would adjust our trip plan for safety. I wouldn't say she is a skilled skier which was the purpose of the post, I wanted to assess weather taking her skis off for those hills would be possible. Mild hills and flat terrain she is fine with but I just don't know how steep it is on the trail. I am fairly experienced with the snow having grown up in the Vic Alps and skiing all my life. Camped in blizzard conditions and have had to deal with emergencies so I am comfortable there. For the trip out to Craigs our plan was to bring tent, bags, food for overnight in case something unplanned happened.

By the sound of it however, its going to be too much effort to make it with my Daughter, so we will probably stick to the skis but adjust our trails and spend a night on Stirling in the patrolled area itself. If somehow I get 4 days instead of 3 I may adjust this to head out in two days and back in two days. Makes it 5km days, she has done 16km with a pack over Hotham and Falls (Summer) so I am confident that she could manage this.

Alternatively we may do Falls Creek and head out to Pretty Valley or Towonga (Say hi to Moondog perhaps).

Loved all

Hey Bailz

I've been up Stirling a bit over the last couple of weeks and have spoken to two families who have taken their children to Craigs. Both families had a ball doing this and consisted of 2 adults, one with 3 kids and the other 4. Both had the youngest around 8 yo.

One made it a four day trip. Overnights at Bluff Hut, Craigs and GGS huts. While the other got the wagon up to Kings Saddle then went straight to Craigs with a two day return trip, overnighting at Bluff Hut on the way back.

In regards to the issue of taking skis off and walking the steep bits. This walk is at a low elevation snow wise and so the snow conditions are variable. At this height, usually it is the track that gets icy if it was going to. So walking on the sides overcomes this, as you should be doing anyway.

All depends on your skills and confidence really. Good to see that your getting out with her.

Thanks for the reply, appreciate the input regarding the trip to Craigs. This is still on my list of things to do with my daughter but I might put it off 12 to 24 months if I don't get a 4 day weekend and do Falls Creek. I know the area much better and have spent a bit of time camping in the snow. One thing I like about Craigs is the fact that there is mobile reception for a fair bit of the area (I researched this when I scoped it out in summer) so while its not patrolled if something did happen at least there is a clear communication method to get help. So for anyone else considering I got reception along the top of most ridges and had patchy coverage in the valley.

[Lophophaps]

Many peaks that are a fair way from towers have mobile reception. I've had line of sight from Viking to Hotham, Jagungal to the Murray, and Bulls Peaks to the east, all fair to good reception. Move behind a rock or the ridge and the signal stops, although sometimes it bends a little, don't know why. If you pick an area tha has ski traffic, getting help should be relatively easy. Heathy Spur has heaps of sheltered campsites 30 minutes from the dam wall.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I will post a link to photographs of my Craig's hut snow shoe trip soon. I use film and the film is still being developed!