Picking a good alpine track to start with?

[OllieVic]

Hi Guys,

This year I've decided I need a bit more than just my normal bushwalking, I'm looking to change it up a little and try some Alpine camping in June. What I want to get out of this is experiencing a couple of nights in a cold environment on snow and see how I like it and what kit changes I'm gonna need to make. I also just wanna camp on top of a mountain, bushwalking is great too but sometimes you just wanna be high up ! Also this will give me an new option in the winter.

WHERE:
My first objective obviously is working out where best to begin with, I'm thinking of Mount Gwinear on Baw Baw or perhaps going a bit further to Feathertop from Bungalow Spur. I want something that's probably going to be for 2 nights and will allow me to experience snow camping and what its like to camp in such conditions. Also I guess something thats gonna allow me to descend quickly should I need keeping in mind I'm new to alpine camping.

WHAT TO TAKE:
Now I've done a fair bit of research on YouTube etc as one does for kit requirements but there's nothing like advice from people who've actually been there. I don't want to go buying kit unnecessarily but at the same time I'm happy to get those new things I'll need. Firstly I only have a 3 season tent so I'm looking around for a 4 season tent, I've had my eye on this http://www.sierradesigns.com/product/convert-2 but its pretty lightweight so I'm wondering if its gonna hold up and second if I need something this expensive yet?(although I dont want to buy another 1 year on either). I've got a decent sleeping matt and hoping my bag (rated to -5), liner and thermals and wool jumper and a down jacket will be sufficient. Secondly I'm assuming that snow shoes are just a given but would like some advice on this and possible brands. Also are there any issues around fuel, I normally take liquid fuel(shellite) in my MSR, I'm assuming no issues with this at cold temps ?

Finally any other things I'll need to be mindful of with my first Alpine experience, tent pitching tips, best food to take anything like that.

All opinions welcome and appreciated.

Cheers,
Ollie

I've already received some good advice but I figure the more the better.

[Moondog55]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20167

See also

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16056

Then ask away in the Equipment section

[OllieVic]

Perfect thanks for pointing the direction.

[Moondog55]

The first Alpine winter camp can come as a shock if you aren't prepared.
That's why beginners are always welcome at my base camp when I do one.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I would start at Bluff spur hut area at Mt Stirling.July has the best snow cover for that place.The campsite is only 4-5 kms from the carpark so it is not too remote if you are hating it or freezing to death. The hut is a good one too.
You 'll need a 4 seasons tent, a minus 20 rated insulated exped sleeping mat that inflates, a BIG space blanket to put underneath it on the tent floor, a minus 10 rated down winter sleeping bag, full thermals : merino icebreaker brand , top and bottom, a balaclava, undergloves, over gloves that are waterproof, snow shoes, winter poles , a down jacket and more. I use methylated spirits for cooking b/c it doesn't freeze the way gas can.
Snow camping and doing multi nighters on snow shoes is top fun but start cautiously otherwise Hypothermia is a real risk .I run winter trips with the VNPA to places such as Mt Stirling, Mt Feathertop, The Razorback, and other such places.

[Xplora]

I think you are on the right track with Bungalow spur to Fed hut for a starter. Pretty safe and you can get out really quick or shelter in the hut unless you are a Victorian politician and then I would advise you go somewhere else (Good one Tim Holding). If you need snow shoes then hire some for the first trip. We started with a good 3 season tent, 3/4 thermarests and a close cell foam mat. That did alright but you need to pick the weather. I boosted my -5 bag with another light bag. A bit heavy but I was fit and didn't want to spend heaps at the start on a bag I may only use once. No problems with the fuel and stove but we always carry a bit more fuel to account for everything being a bit cold and taking longer. Meths is a bit too slow for me in winter. Anyone can winter camp in good weather but you never know when it will change. Nights are long so take a book and some spare batteries for the head torch. June may be too early for any real snow but keep an eye on the ski forums and snow cams or just ask. Some snow goggles would also be good. Not often needed though. I always take a windstopper jacket and a gortex (top and bottom) plus the down vest. As said, the gear section will help more. Lots of fun. Don't forget snow pegs with a pull cord for the tent. Nuts and dried fruit. Lots more food as you will need to eat more in the cold. Soups are good. And the list goes on. Start getting fitter.

[OllieVic]

I would start at Bluff spur hut area at Mt Stirling.July has the best snow cover for that place.The campsite is only 4-5 kms from the carpark so it is not too remote if you are hating it or freezing to death. The hut is a good one too.
You 'll need a 4 seasons tent, a minus 20 rated insulated exped sleeping mat that inflates, a BIG space blanket to put underneath it on the tent floor, a minus 10 rated down winter sleeping bag, full thermals : merino icebreaker brand , top and bottom, a balaclava, undergloves, over gloves that are waterproof, snow shoes, winter poles , a down jacket and more. I use methylated spirits for cooking b/c it doesn't freeze the way gas can.
Snow camping and doing multi nighters on snow shoes is top fun but start cautiously otherwise Hypothermia is a real risk .I run winter trips with the VNPA to places such as Mt Stirling, Mt Feathertop, The Razorback, and other such places.

Great thanks for all the feedback, my list is growing. I'm thinking I might just rent a 4 season tent, (my 3 season maybe enough but I'd rather not risk getting caught out) and snow shoes the first time from Bogong shop until I'm sure I will be repeating again. I might also wait until late June/Jul to ensure I get some snow.

Don't have any winter specific pants I was looking at some Rab soft shells maybe ? I assume waterproofs over standard pants are not warm enough(even with thermals)?

[Moondog55]

Well that really depends on the tent
What do you have at the moment?
The main difference apart from a stronger frame design is the amount of mesh in the tent, the more mesh the less suitable for snow; many threads on the subject
Any pant that isn't cotton will do over thermals until you stop and rain pants are a must anyway
LW fleece pull-on pants are worth looking at I wear old polyester and mesh lined trackies treated with Nikwax
And of course you are welcome to join us at PV anytime

[FootTrack]

Great thanks for all the feedback, my list is growing. I'm thinking I might just rent a 4 season tent, (my 3 season maybe enough but I'd rather not risk getting caught out) and snow shoes the first time from Bogong shop until I'm sure I will be repeating again. I might also wait until late June/Jul to ensure I get some snow.

Don't have any winter specific pants I was looking at some Rab soft shells maybe ? I assume waterproofs over standard pants are not warm enough(even with thermals)?

Hey Ollie,

I think renting is a good way to go first time round (especially for the more expensive items and at least until you work out if snow camping is for you). If you do rent a tent, don't forget to give it a test run at home before you go so you're not setting it up for the first time once up there (know how it works and make sure that everything is there).

I would also recommend giving yourself PLENTY of time to do things. I think there's an old saying like "it takes twice as long to do things in the snow". We definitely found this on our first trip, and your lack of time is somewhat accentuated by shorter winter daylight hours.

In regards to pants, I think you definitely need waterproof pants rather than softshells. I haven't tried the later but we found that a lot of gear inevitably gets wet whilst up there, and once it is wet it's very difficult to get dry again. Obviously it depends on the weather, your activity level etc. but you'd be surprised how warm you keep with just a pair of thermal bottoms and overpants on. That's all I wore and didn't have any issues. Of course, I also brought with me polar fleece pants for at night when it got cooler. When looking at pants, try to get a pair with a decent zipper down the long side with two sliders. You'll be glad you did when you start working hard with them and need some ventilation!

This is the thread I asked a few questions on before I did my first snow camping trip. You might find a few extra, helpful pieces of information on it. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=17005

[paidal_chalne_vala]

"it takes twice as long to do things in the snow".
Yes. Distances that are possible in snow shoes with a full pack are half that of green season hiking in boots.
You will need goretex/rain over pants and a goretex jacket .
I don't wear thermal long johns until I get to camp and then I put them on. Carrying a full pack in the snow is hard work and you will sweat a lot even if it does freeze on the external side of your thermal wool top in sub zero conditions.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Yes, I also forgot , You' ll need snow pegs !!! and more food to eat to keep warm and spare head torch batteries and a good book. I take extra fuel so you can melt snow and ice for water. In a really cold snap all drinking water turns to a solid: ice. You will end up taking/carrying more stuff/weight and slogging it up the Bungalow spur in full snow , in snow shoes with a full pack makes the summer ascent seem like climbing Mt. Waverly. Going up the Bon Accord spur in snow season is even tougher. You will become very fit doing this. You can use your snow shoes while you are wearing them to compact a tent site. Yes , you must flatten down the snow and ice to make your tent site ready. Some people take a snow shovel and dig out a space.

If you are on a steep slope with a full pack and you slip in the snow , and it is icy, you will have seconds to stop yourself. Watch some videos on you tube of self arrest techniques. Even a snow pole is better than nothing to stop you plummeting down the side of the Razorback . I carry a self arrest ski pole but I am going to buy an ice axe for this white season for hairy winter ridge walks .The snow shoes with the heel lift will make life easier on ascents in full snow cover.
Avoid YOWIE snow shoes. They are a joke. I like MSR brand and Salomon make good ones too. The bindings are good on both. The design is good on both makes.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Don't forget knee high goretex gaiters . Ski Goggles are better than sun glasses, they don't fog up as quickly , but snow blindness can set in on cloudy days too without eye protection. You'll need waterproof boots . No mesh trendy nylon hiker foot wear. Failing that you'll end up putting plastic bags around your socks and then putting your boots on. Not a good look or very comfortable. You will need two plastic bags to put each boot in when you keep them in your tent at night. Otherwise they will freeze rock solid overnight and you won't be able to wear them.