Missing hiker, Howitt/Howqua area

[Xastorm]

In case anyone knows people hiking in the area, as per the BSAR update 5/11 there is still no sign of him.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 536qu.html

http://www.bsar.org/search-for-missing- ... alps-2019/

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I have been following this issue. It is concerning that in approaching bad weather, the fellow has not been located yet nor has he sent any message via a device such as a satellite phone, mobile phone or PLB.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

He is still missing!

[cammokazee]

He is still missing!

Have been following this too, although no info has come out over the last couple of days that l can see. So l guess that means he has not been found.
For many years there l did a similar thing & head into the Upper Jamieson River area for 5-day solos when the seasonally closed tracks opened usually in the week prior to the Melbourne Cup. The weather in those parts this time of year can always pose challenges. Have to say but for me hunters roaming around were also a concern.

Fingers crossed he is ok but have to say it is looking rather grim.

Cammo

[msrlo]

We were up there hunting around Lovicks hut on the 6 of this month and got quizzed about him by the guys in blue, he was 3 days late then. His plan was to hike 140ks in 7 days. Theyve just had a decent cover of snow so not good for him

[cammokazee]

Apparently he was planning to head to Stirling from VG Hut. I'd of thought Stanley's would be the more direct route. But as you say a decent snow cover & poor weather presents a different beast, don't know how experienced or prepared he was/is for that.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I was XC skiing on Sat. at Baw Baw. It was better XC skiing than some days in July.

That sort of weather would pose challenges for hikers in the Buller / Howitt Area. Buller and Stirling were both skiable on Sat. .Another statement from the Vic. Police suggests that the man may in fact be now in NSW. It is odd to say the least. Regarding deer shooters and hunters, having some item that is blaze high visibility orange is a good way to avoid being shot . I have a bright orange pack cover. Plus if I fall down a cliff or a bluff such as on Stanley Name Spur near the X cut saw , it is easy for others to see.

[Lukec]

I am interested in this too. I was on the AAWT NOBO through Mac Springs (stayed there overnight) on the 30/10. Seems this was a few days after this fella was there. Didn't see any sign of him (or anyone) that day. next morning I crossed paths with another solo walker on the Cross Cut Saw heading the opposite way to Lovicks but that was not him. I was over the Viking and in the Barry's by end of 31/10. The weather was still good back then. Weather from 28/10 - 2/11 was generally fine. It went bad on 3/11 and there hasn't been any consistent fine periods since then (including some real cold and poo... stuff from 7/10 -9/10.)
(I've taken a break for some health issues and due to the weather, continuing on from Hotham on 13/11).

[wildwanderer]

Search suspended.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-11- ... k/11695548

I wonder if police should hand over control to the volunteer bushwalker rescue squads when resources available are exhausted and prospects of a successful outcome significantly diminish.

It would mean searches could continue as long as the volunteers were willing. Would also be a useful training exercise for volunteers even if chances of finding the missing walker alive is remote. If found deceased would provide closure for the family.

[Mark F]

I wonder if police should hand over control to the volunteer bushwalker rescue squads when resources available are exhausted and prospects of a successful outcome significantly diminish.

Volunteers usually have better things to do and the calls upon their time are not something they relish but do out of good will. That said, anybody could keep keep looking but that would be their choice. Expecting Bushwalking Search and Rescue Victoria in this case, to drain resources and volunteers good will by continuing such a search is to my mind unproductive. The person has been missing out in the bush for over two weeks and the search lasted for around 10 days without any apparent leads.

[wildwanderer]

It would be important to ensure that volunteers did not feel obligated to continue a search.

Not sure I agree that volunteers see their volunteering as a burden and don't relish the opportunity to put what they have trained for into practice but certainly it would need to be managed with a rotating pool of people who wish to participate.

My belief is that the volunteer bush rescue services (who train hard and are often highly skilled bushwalkers)) don't get used by the police that regularly. This could be an opportunity.

[Xplora]

It would be important to ensure that volunteers did not feel obligated to continue a search.

Not sure I agree that volunteers see their volunteering as a burden and don't relish the opportunity to put what they have trained for into practice but certainly it would need to be managed with a rotating pool of people who wish to participate.

My belief is that the volunteer bush rescue services (who train hard and are often highly skilled bushwalkers)) don't get used by the police that regularly. This could be an opportunity.

BSAR were used in this search and are used frequently by Police. So to the SES. You may have to rethink your belief. All these volunteers have jobs and families and the decision to stop a search is not taken lightly but it has to be made at some time. Where do you continue searching? How many people are specifically trained to do what is required and when do you give them a break? Where are all these people for the rotating pool? We are not privy to much of the information regarding this matter and can only glean or make judgement on the basis of what is fed to us by the press releases. There was talk he may have walked further and not actually gone toward Stirling. Where did that come from? Of course it came from Police but what gave them that idea? Ask those volunteers involved if they feel the search had run its course. Some people are never found. That is a sad reality.

[msrlo]

The reality is some people don't want to be found either

[wildwanderer]

Interesting. Thanks for the discussion all.

Xplora how often are the volunteers used on average? (Per year)

I wonder if this is also the nsw experience. It doesn't seem they get called out more frequently than handful of times per year. However I only have news reports etc to back that theory.

[neilmny]

Interesting. Thanks for the discussion all.

Xplora how often are the volunteers used on average? (Per year)

I wonder if this is also the nsw experience. It doesn't seem they get called out more frequently than handful of times per year. However I only have news reports etc to back that theory.

http://www.bsar.org/searches/

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I know someone who was until recently quite involved in the VIC BSAR. They are nearly all volunteers with their own lives to attend to.

[Xplora]

Interesting. Thanks for the discussion all.

Xplora how often are the volunteers used on average? (Per year)

I wonder if this is also the nsw experience. It doesn't seem they get called out more frequently than handful of times per year. However I only have news reports etc to back that theory.

On any wide scale search in the bush, volunteers are utilised by Police in every state and sticking my neck out without research, I would say volunteers are called out every time a search looks to be prolonged or has to cover a large area. A couple of random news reports I looked at all had SES involved. SES are largely volunteers. Police manpower is not sufficient and most Police are not trained or equipped for bush searches. Police will bring in specialist units such as the dog squad, mounties, trail bikes, airwing and the Police rescue (or local Police) will co-ordinate. Volunteers are also cheaper and to get enough Police to do a proper search it would take call outs and overtime and bringing in resources from other areas. The later will mean accommodation and meals for those staff. Police prefer to work with recognised volunteer organisations where the people receive specific training pertaining to searches. The prospect of finding a person deceased is also high and people have to be prepared for that. Volunteers are also used in the recovery. In Victoria, Police are starting to use SARDA more. Look them up. https://www.sarda.net.au/

The BSAR in NSW are now a part of the NSW SES and were formerly linked to the NSW VRA. The VRA tend to be involved with more vehicle rescue these days but some members of the VRA would be part of the BSAR. It is better to have one coordinated unit than a bunch of random units all wanting to do the same thing. Consistency in training and communication plus a clearer line of accountability, control and command structure.

[Travis22]

Did anyone else hear that his phone and keys were located with his vehicle? Is this correct? ((The phone being the crucial piece as the keys could have been there all along)).

Therefor can we assume he finished the first part of his hike and made it back to his car from Mac Springs (as per his intentions sms’d to his family from Mac Springs) and he has gone missing between his car’s parked location and somewhere - likely Stirling?

[paidal_chalne_vala]

My understanding is that the missing person left his car on Brock's road near the turn off for the Upper Jamieson Hut. Why he would leave his keys and his ph. in the car is beyond me to comprehend. If that is the case then that is not necessarily leading me to conclude that he made it from Mac. Springs to Mt. Stirling via Stanley name Spur walking track and then went all the way back to Brock's Road . He has either staged his own disappearance or he is no longer living.

[andrewa]

Hmmm. I’ve never left my phone and keys in my car when I’ve gone off on a trip. If I had planned to do so, I would probably have left my pack and clothes in the car too.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

If he has vanished by design then the message about going to Mt .Stirling is a red herring. He did message his near and dear ones from Mac. Springs so he had some kind of ph. with him.

[Travis22]

As im understanding it, he sent a message while at Mac Springs and told his family he was there (at the hut), phone reception was bad, he would be heading back to the car then on to Mt Stirling etc.

But all media coverage basically just said he stayed in the hut at Mac Springs, spoke to his family and told them he might go on to Mt Stirling.

However i did manage to find one comment from someone online questioning why his phone and keys were found at his vehicle and just one reply (from someone who came across as a friend or family based on their other replies) saying yes that was strange and they assume he had made it back to his car and then gone off again (presumably towards Mt Stirling).

Ive read talks of searching the Wonnangatta area, Barry’s etc and pondered the Crosscut etc area myself but none of that makes any sense now of it seems more likely he’s vanished from somewhere closer to where he originally started if indeed his phone (and keys) were found back at his car. (But again the keys dont raise any red flags to me without more information as i know plenty of people of leave / hide their keys back at their car when heading off).

[Travis22]

Just updated myself with the posts on the Ski forums of which im not a member...

Anyways, for the record this is the post that caught my eye: refer attached.

[cammokazee]

If you look at the 7 news footage (5/11) it clearly shows on the passenger seat a music iPod & a single key (to what who knows, must say it does not look like much of a spare car key).
So not sure where the 'phone & car Keys' being left on the front seat comes from. In any case and regardless of a car parked in the mountains, l cannot think of a single reason why anyone in their right mind would leave such valuables on display even if the car was locked & alarmed.

The only thing l leave in the car is a note on the dashboard that is visible from the outside detailing the hike route, dates, party, emergency contact etc etc. I also give the wife a detailed itinerary including (if applicable) any alterations to the hike that may possibly be encountered (for example a change of route due to an uncrossable river). Of course you can always advise some local authorities of your intentions as well.

Without knowing for certain but it does appear as though no-one really knew exactly what his plan was other than to be 5 days. Not good. Did he know?
How someone ever come up with the idea of him hiking into NSW is beyond me. Capable of walking long distances... yeah if you're heading along the Hume Hwy. There's a bit more up & down in the hills plus factoring in the weather conditions & snow. Just odd.

Not carrying an EPIRB or the like was also a mistake. Without knowing for certain yet of what has happened, but it is more than likely that he would be alive, home and safe & sound had he an EPIRB particularly if he found himself in serious trouble. Not sure if the weather for the planned 5 days was such an issue, although it certainly was after. Personally if l have a hike planned & the weather forecasted is to be horrendous, then l reschedule it to another time. If you cannot get to enjoy the scenery, then why bother.

Not intending to be disrespectful here either, but l cannot help but question the degree of experience by the missing man. Bluntly put (and again not trying to be too presumptuous), it is one thing to be experienced in walking up & down clear trails in the warmer months of the year, it is another to be on the same trails in the colder months when they are snow covered along with the difference in temperatures & likelier adverse weather conditions. This requires another level of experience & preparedness.

IMO there are far too many oversights and as a result have only added to the confusion around this incident & unfortunately posed more questions than answers.

[CraigVIC]

Hindsight

[Xplora]

Experience is quite subjective. I gauge those I know based on what I know. Experience in various conditions as compared with general bushwalking on marked tourist tracks is important. Someone without any experience can think a person who spends a lot of time walking the tourist tracks in fine weather is experienced. I don't intend to speculate on the fate of this man and without any knowledge of this person, I cannot speculate on his experience. I could, but I choose not to here. There are some take home messages for us all which are valuable and worth reflecting on. i.e. ensure your plan includes a 'get out of trouble' contingency whatever that may be.

Regarding the media reports, Police making statements on matters are not always practised and things can be said off the cuff. The media grab things like that for stories but how important it is to the actual matter is hard to determine. I have had dealings with the media before and been front page of the majors. I told one reporter pestering me for the story to do what every other journalist does, make it up. Reading the news is kind of like watching a movie based on real events (sometimes). But it is all we have so it can make interesting banter on a forum. Social media then grabs something and all of a sudden there is some 'fact' out there which makes people postulate even more. The keys and phone thing is a great example.

[GBW]

Reports did say he was experienced but what does that mean? Can phone records give any indication of his last known location? Also are drones used in SAR? Hopefully something turns up for the family's sake.

[cammokazee]

Hindsight

Hindsight may only have any relevancy if by some miracle he survives.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

He is still missing ….

[CraigVIC]

Hindsight

Hindsight may only have any relevancy if by some miracle he survives.

Given the situation concerns a local a bit more kindness is in order.