Shoddy book directions.

[beetorstevie]

I have a guide book contract waiting to be signed on my desk. The book includes a number of bush day walks. It'll be a nice glossy book, but the publisher wants save space by printing the directions in a size 8 font, abbreviating directions such as left and right to L, R, etc., and putting information such as the physical grade and navigational grade of the walks in a running text, rather than have them on separate lines.

I think this is unacceptable for safety reasons. I'm nervous that inexperienced walkers will misread the directions, and not see the walk grades until they rock up at the trackhead - and yet carry on regardless.

What you reckon? Have you come across a book like this? Many thanks for your thoughts.

[MrWalker]

We have a large number of day walk books and all the ones we actually make use of make it easy to find details like time, distance, climb, etc without having to read the text. And I would not use a book with font 8 text. So as far as I can see the book would be useless in the format described.

[Tortoise]

I have a guide book contract waiting to be signed on my desk. The book includes a number of bush day walks. It'll be a nice glossy book, but the publisher wants save space by printing the directions in a size 8 font, abbreviating directions such as left and right to L, R, etc., and putting information such as the physical grade and navigational grade of the walks in a running text, rather than have them on separate lines.

I think this is unacceptable for safety reasons. I'm nervous that inexperienced walkers will misread the directions, and not see the walk grades until they rock up at the trackhead - and yet carry on regardless.

What you reckon? Have you come across a book like this? Many thanks for your thoughts.

I agree with Mr Walker. I sure wouldn't buy the book for me or anyone else.

Size 8 font is just silly for anything, let alone for directions. I can cope with some abbrevs (best to have them spelled out clearly at the beginning though, to avoid any confusion). I could even cope with putting the grades in one bold line. But the basic info needs to be very easy to access so people can see at a glance if the walk is suitable for them, etc, etc. Skimping on space for real info in a 'nice glossy book' is like...let me see... diluting a nice red with water to make it cheaper.

[beetorstevie]

Mr Walker and Tortoise - many thanks for your thoughts...and the analogy! I think you're both right.

[neilmny]

Add another to the no size 8 font beetorstevie.
I prefer a gradient diagram or graph as well.
It lets you see approximately when you hit the steeps.

[Hallu]

You aussies are very lucky with the quality of the walking guidebooks you have. They are quite expensive (Chapman books being 30 $ full retail) but most have gradient curves, difficulty, map, etc... In France and Europe in general the quality is definitely not as high. For once, being Europe, there are a great number of tracks, it's not just the one walking path leading somewhere interesting, it's multiple paths made over the centuries they've been used. So you need precise and detailed directions. And yet none of the books we have offer them, a GPS and/or map is absolutely needed all the time. It's very different from NZ/AUS or USA/Canada where you usually have only one path that has been made specifically for the park, for tourism. Here in France walking paths are also farmers' paths which they use to move livestock, it's also loggers' paths, hunters' paths etc... it can as well be paths used for commerce in previous centuries, or to smuggle illegal stuff accross borders. It's a mess, only some wild places in Scandinavia don't have that issue. And yet all the books here are 10-20 €, all have a big chunk of text with limited info, the small maps don't tell you much, and gradient curves are an exception, not the rule. Signage is also often poor at junctions, whereas in Australia most tracks have a name, and most junctions have a sign.

So I'm glad to see that Aussies are adamant they won't botch the quality of their guidebooks. Keep it up.

[Gadgetgeek]

I'd be really concerned that a specific direction like "gentle right curve" might get edited to R. That could spell disaster for a rookie who is thinking they need to follow the book to the letter, or is confused about their distances and just happens to find a hard right instead of a gentle one. I'd go for a no.

[Suz]

I think the publisher doesn't understand the market.

Tell them if they get it their way, they a) won't sell or b) will get a bad rep post sales.

I used the lauded Cicerone guides in Europe and I thought they were pretty rubbish. I literally chucked one away. I just this week got my AAWT guide from John Chapman and it's pretty stellar. Can you perhaps show the publisher some comparisons to give a better idea of what's 'effective light' and what's 'stupid light' in terms of wordery?

I hope if you are doing a day walks guide you are giving suitable info on track accessibility - e.g. 'public transport links' to the track head / end, road names, etc. I find that particularly irking when guide books lack this.

Also, indices that summarise this important info are good too. If anything, add to your book! Anyhow, good luck with it and stick to your guns!

...What would be best if someone produced some sort of combo garmin / guide and the tech to support it where you get all the track info and little pointers on a map, and warnings like 'storm coming, find cover!' Dreamin'

[Hallu]

Yeah Suz, the Cicerone guides are pretty representative of what a European walking book is like. Their maps have little to no use, directions are poorly detailed. The best Euro books you can buy are from the Rother collection (rother.de , they're in English, French, German and Italian). They're still not detailed enough, so you still need a GPS (I use ViewRanger on my smartphone and buy the detailed maps on their shop) but the care they put in selecting the best itineraries is immense, it's always the most scenic path with great variety, and they go to great length to make circuits instead of going back the same way. They cover Spain, France, Switzerland, the Canary Islands, Iceland, Portugal and some parts of Italy. There's one on Norway but it's pretty poor.

If you speak French, there's also Glénat who make good books, but only the big ones, almost coffee table books : itineraries are good too, I just photocopy the one i'll use on a particular day.

What's weird is that the French don't demand better quality : maybe I was spoiled with the quality of the Aussie and Kiwi tracks and books ? Each time I talk to the French walking community about that, they're rude and say a book shouldn't be detailed and you should just find your way with a map. But the fact is the direction some books or websites give are pretty dangerous for a novice. They don't anticipate the errors a new walker might make, and I'm 100% sure this has led to people getting lost or at least very frustrated. They also very rarely tell you when you can walk : some tracks are icy in November and VERY dangerous (I experienced it myself) while others have snow or melting snow (even more dangerous, with holes) until well into june. and instead of saying which walk may have that (or at least which general location) they just give a general comment which in the end amounts to "if you die it's your fault". I've also experienced bad GPS checkpoints on a book, or in a snowshoe book someone telling you to climb the South face of a hill, which is sunbathed and with fragile snow.

[beetorstevie]

Hallu & Suz - it's funny you mention the European point of view and that the publisher doesn't understand the market. The publisher is actually in the UK, and the book is intended to be sold both there and in Australia. In the UK it is usually pretty difficult to get seriously lost - there is often a farm...or a pub in sight. That's absolutely not the case in Australia, even on a day walk.

[Hallu]

It's easy to get lost in the UK if you go to the wild part of UK, meaning Scotland. But that confirms what I said, European publishers have pretty low standards... They actually seek authors for these books, while in Australia, it's often the author who launches his own collection : Chapman did it, Glenn Tempest did it, while in Europe it's a big editor who happens to try a walking book collection, hiring a bunch of different authors. Only Rother has consistency and ONLY publishes walking books, that's the difference.

[bearded bushwalker]

Hi beetorstevie,
As a librarian in a university we find some researchers get caught by predatory publishers. They promise the earth and once you are signed up and have your work published the sub clauses (with extra expenses) come to light. Make sure you exercise due diligence, as from their attitude about clarity being sacrificed to cut cost it would appear the publisher could fall into this classification.
As for 8 point font the inconvenience of having to constantly get my glasses out would spoil the enjoyment of using such a book (hey I can admit to the beard being long and white but stubbornly refuse to admit to being old:) )

[Suz]

Hallu & Suz - it's funny you mention the European point of view and that the publisher doesn't understand the market. The publisher is actually in the UK, and the book is intended to be sold both there and in Australia. In the UK it is usually pretty difficult to get seriously lost - there is often a farm...or a pub in sight. That's absolutely not the case in Australia, even on a day walk.

There is only one recourse of action --- allow the publisher to edit as preferred your most difficult to navigate and dangerous track. Then print and give those directions to the publisher's most beloved person and get them to walk the track.
In seriousness, I have no idea how you'll resolve this one but I wish you well with it!

Thanks Hallu for the tip re: Viewranger and Rother. Heading back to Europe in July and will have to try them out. My French is pretty awful so I'll have to kidnap a frenchie to translate Glenat for me. Who is best for Germany and Sweden? Rother do that too? That's where I'm headed this time around Or maybe I should go to Iceland… Everyone RAVES about it.

[Hallu]

Well for Sweden there isn't much English publishing to be honest. Swedish walking is like Norwegian walking : either it's a short walk near civilisation, either it's a multi day walk refuge to refuge. There is no long day walk culture, you tailor your own. So there are no day walking books that cover the whole of Sweden either. The only walking books I know of are by One Day Walks Publishing, try a search on amazon UK and you find these . But Dalarna and Varmland are hills not mountains, and it's not really made for walkers, those books are here to help you find decent walks there, their itinerary are often a mix of walking tracks and sealed roads, but to find the wild Sweden you need mountaineous national parks further North. Central Sweden is more for hunters and fishermen.

As for Iceland, I actually wanted to go there in June. But it was too expensive. No hotel under 100 € a night, and in the end the flight was just as expensive as going to Los Angeles for me, which is what I'm doing instead. 3 weeks in the US is less expensive than 2 weeks in Iceland. But if you've got the money, go for it, it looks awesome, I have the Rother book for Iceland, it's pretty nice, it covers the whole of Iceland.

For Germany I don't know, never been there to hike. Rother covers it... in their German section. Nothing in English.

[Suz]

Ah thanks hallu no i don't have the money for iceland if it's that $$$! think i'll do the section in sweden between abisko and nikku-something or other, about 1 week, planning to camp in my tent to save money on the trail - those swedish huts are really expensive!

sorry for hijacking your thread beetorstevie.

[MartyGwynne]

I so agree with the font size as I am now over fifty and would need to access my glasses to read small font, be strong and make your book good.
You can't replace L or R for a slight uphill left turn before the stand of mahogany gums as you can get seriously lost in Australia.
Good luck with the book and let us know when it's published I will buy it.

[Lophophaps]

I think this is unacceptable for safety reasons. I'm nervous that inexperienced walkers will misread the directions, and not see the walk grades until they rock up at the trackhead - and yet carry on regardless.

Your concerns are well based. There should be a panel summarising the walk: 10 kilometres, 400 metres of ascent and descent, well defined track, medium to hard grade, 4-6 hours. For books that have safety ramifications, the author and publisher owe readers a duty of care. An eight point font breaches that duty of care, and may arguably open the way to litigation, especially if the user was born in the US. Further, it is also arguable that a small font breaches Australian Consumer Law, which provides that a product must be fit for the purpose. If one or both of these is upheld in court then there could be an order to withdraw the book from sale, and perhaps a penalty if a user comes to grief. What of your reputation then?

Directions and words should be clear, correct, comprehensive, concise and considerate. Directions should be in the form "turn left (south) at the junction."

I suggest that you advise the publisher of the advice in this thread, and take a firm position about how the book is to be presented. If not, a great deal of risk is being taken.

[mikethepike]

I used the lauded Cicerone guides in Europe and I thought they were pretty rubbish. I literally chucked one away.

I can only agree with Suz, on this - all of the Cicerone books are as heavy as hell and with so much verbiage. I have their guides for the UK Coast to Coast and also the Harvey polyethylene maps and the latter is all you need as far as route finding is concerned and at a fraction of the weight. John Brierley's map/3 language text on Camino de Sabtiago is also a masterpeice when it comes to distilling all the essential info that a walker needs into a very lightweight moisture resistent guidebook. Design and format are as important as the information contained within when it comes to guidebooks and are major factors I think in the decision making of a potential purchaser.
All the best with your project beetorstevie!

[RonK]

I used the lauded Cicerone guides in Europe and I thought they were pretty rubbish. I literally chucked one away.

I can only agree with Suz, on this - all of the Cicerone books are as heavy as hell and with so much verbiage. I have their guides for the UK Coast to Coast and also the Harvey polyethylene maps and the latter is all you need as far as route finding is concerned and at a fraction of the weight. John Brierley's map/3 language text on Camino de Sabtiago is also a masterpeice when it comes to distilling all the essential info that a walker needs into a very lightweight moisture resistent guidebook. Design and format are as important as the information contained within when it comes to guidebooks and are major factors I think in the decision making of a potential purchaser.
All the best with your project beetorstevie!

Presumably it depends in who wrote it. The Cicerone Everest guide, written by Kev Reynolds is in my opinion the best available.

[quill]

I was a sub-editor for many years and dropping the point size is lazy. There are many ways to emend text to fit more in, this was a core task for me as most magazine stories are at least 1/4 overlength. The trick and art is to edit it back in such a way the writer can reread and not be able to tell where the words have been saved.

That said, abbreviating 'left' and 'right' to 'L' and 'R' would save considerable space given how often the words would appear, and the chance for confusion is very low as they are commonly accepted and understood abbreviations. If you need to pick your battles that's one to let through to the keeper, is my advice.