Shared Use Tracks

[stepbystep]

I've been pondering this recently, after working on the North-South track project in Hobart, this is purpose built as a walking/mountain bike track.

It seems to put in a huge piece of infrastructure why could some tracks not be developed as mixed use, therefore attracting more user groups to certain areas.

Some discussion following the North-South track experience centre's around the idea that this is a great track and riders from all over the world want to come and ride it, but if they are to fork out the $$$ they want other glamour rides to do while they are down here. 3 Capes Track springs to mind, but also something on the West Coast/tarkine area, perhaps developing the wildside course and something in the SW, perhaps from Maydena through forestry roads and up and around some minor peaks like Mt Styx or Snowy North. Perhaps NE through Blue Tiers or coastal stuff???

Any thoughts on this?

[wayno]

after banning mountain bikes from the Heaphy track in NZ , DOC have brought back mountain biking for a trial over winter. other walkng tracks suitable for dual use are also starting to be used for mountain bikers.
theQueen charlotte track has been dual use for years without any problems,
there were an overwehlming no of positive submissions put forward to DOC to get the heaphy track brought back for mountain bikers
the sta james walkway is also open to mtb's

[doogs]

I have often thought Ben Lomond would be perfect for such a development with a road up to over 1400metres a track using forestry roads and purpose build section would be amazing especially if it went all the way to Lonnie (at sea level). A bus service could run to shuttle folk up to the ski area and then off they go!!! If it went through Relbia you could make it a gourmet excursion with a stop at vineyard for lunch
A track around the Mersey forest area up at Meander would be fantastic too with fantastic rain forests and waterfalls along the current tracks which could be repaired and modified for bikes. There is already a good parking area with electric bbqs by the dam up there.

[wayno]

mtb usage on the dual use tracks that have been opened up in the winter in nz has been reasonably high,, there are huts on a lot of the tracks so its increased DOC's coffers, and the tracks, bridges and huts are being upgraded to encourage more MTBer's
on the queen chrlotee track it's one of the few where mtbers can ride all year round, only a portion of the track is closed to them in summer, most other tracks are winter only.
although mtb'ers are supposed to give way to trampers it's often the other way around since there are a lot of places the track isnt wide enough to pass easily.

[stepbystep]

Part of my reasoning is that, mtn bikers don't usually camp but spend their money on the periphery with pubs/accommodation etc...

Ben Lomond is a good idea doogs as you know I don't know that area well, Wellington Park could also be expanded greatly with a decent downhill track and other tracks utilising the various fire trails etc

But why not also encourage bridle trails and facilities for rock climbers/paragliders etc. If Tasmania had an integrated plan they could even work together with NZ to bring more people to the region.

[MrWalker]

Would bikers be able to get up Higgs track or others that were originally stock routes, so are moderately wide and not many steps. I think the top section of Higgs might be a problem, but once on the top the track might be suitable towards Lake Nameless.

I'm not saying we want lots of bikes racing up and down there, but the old stock routes are more likely to make suitable access.

[icemancometh]

I find that on a lot of supposed walking tracks that locals ride their bikes anyway and short of carrying a stick and attacking them with it there's not much one can do. They are also likely to have an unleashed dog running behind them.

This can be more than a mere inconvenience for someone like me who walks and runs solo a lot out there as I have almost been run over a few times, saved only by quick reflexes and being a little paranoid about guys on bikes out there.

The most dangerous bits are when I am going uphill and they open the throttle up heading down the other way with nary a care for anyone or anything else out there. Even when they pass from behind they don't indicate intent or even their presence unless I detect them first and get out of the way. Unfortunately my own experience has not been good with them and I have been spooked more than once whilst out there. I can't even see some of the tracks as being that interesting from a riding perspective as nowhere near steep enough to be fun.

[Strider]

although mtb'ers are supposed to give way to trampers it's often the other way around since there are a lot of places the track isnt wide enough to pass easily.

This makes no sense at all. It is far easier for a walker to move to the side to let a MTB'er past, and I have no problem in doing so.

Speaking of which, I have walked North-South Track a fair few times since its completion (I live in New Town). The thing that makes this track so good for dual-use is its fantastic lines-of-sight between corners. A MTB'er can nearly come down the track at full-bore, and still have time to slow down when a walker is seen ahead. Consequently, there is also adequate time for walkers to see and hear MTB'er coming, and move aside momentarily to let them pass. That said, it is more ideal/practical/safe to walk the track from south-to-north, as most MTB'ers tend to travel downhill (towards Glenorchy).

I do agree with the above post though, if MTB'ers could somehow announce their presence that would indeed be appreciated.

[stepbystep]

I have walked North-South Track a fair few times since its completion (I live in New Town). The thing that makes this track so good for dual-use is its fantastic lines-of-sight between corners. A MTB'er can nearly come down the track at full-bore, and still have time to slow down when a walker is seen ahead. Consequently, there is also adequate time for walkers to see and hear MTB'er coming, and move aside momentarily to let them pass.

Precisely why it's a good example of a shared use trail, it is designed to be thus. Iceman's observations are obviously not relevant as a track designed as shared use will circumvent some of his issues. There is also no reason sections of the track can't be built so there are walkers only sections(stairs/sidetrips) and sections such as switchbacks etc that can be left for the bikers....i.e. intelligent design....

[walkinTas]

There is also no reason sections of the track can't be built so there are walkers only sections(stairs/sidetrips) and sections such as switchbacks etc that can be left for the bikers....i.e. intelligent design....

I like the idea, but it would need to be done well and it would be important to clearly signpost the shared sections so everyone understood they were shared.

[Strider]

There is also no reason sections of the track can't be built so there are walkers only sections(stairs/sidetrips) and sections such as switchbacks etc that can be left for the bikers....i.e. intelligent design....

This is the only part of the track design I find frustrating, having to walk in large a zig-zag onto to cover 15m of vertical distance!

[stepbystep]

There is also no reason sections of the track can't be built so there are walkers only sections(stairs/sidetrips) and sections such as switchbacks etc that can be left for the bikers....i.e. intelligent design....

I like the idea, but it would need to be done well and it would be important to clearly signpost the shared sections so everyone understood they were shared.

True, however as Strider says when the design is correct such as the Nth-Sth track there are no surprises coming at you quickly. There's a video about the construction here http://www.hobartcity.com.au/Recreation ... rack_Video if you have 20mins up your sleeve.

[Peaksnik]

I choose not to walk on trails that are mixed use if there's an alternative. Why? Because it requires extra vigilance and therefore not as relaxing. Both walkers and riders can lose concentration and do dumb things, however, I would come off second best bumping into a bike compared to another walker.

As for the suggestion about the Higgs Track, why stop at Lake Nameless? It could be extended all the way to the WOJ as a bikeway that would allow riders to race across the Conservation Area. Or would that be too problematic?

[wayno]

there have been people riding tracks like the heaphy illegally for years, either when it wasnt sanctioned or now out of season
to save transport costs, parties will split in two and start at either end and swap keys....
one year a party were doing this, either before it was approved to cycle teh track or out of season, the ranger had been informed some mountain bikers were on their way. he was opposed to mountain bikers in peak season because he didnt think it was good for trampers to have to stop so often to let mountain bikers past, it interupted their experience.... also bikers would leave bikes lying around the huts propped up against balconies and tables making it hard to access them. they get to the huts first so trampers arrive to the clutter.

sure enough one group of mtbers turned up first, the rannger blocked the track and told them they werent passing, they could turn around where they were, half way into the 77km track and go back. the mtbers protested as long as they could, the ranger wouldnt budge, so the mtbers turned back shouting abuse at the ranger,
not long after the second party of mtbers turned up from the other end, they met the same fate from the ranger
word must have got around about the incident, the no's of llegal riders on the trak dropped sgnificantly

[ILUVSWTAS]

I think it's a great idea Dan. I used to do alot of mtn biking 15 yrs ago, and there were very few places to go off road.

Im not sure it'd be necessary to go into places like the WOJ or Plateau though. There's alot of areas already destroyed by Forestry Tas, Utilize these areas as mtn bikers dont really care if they are on peaks, they just want a good trail to be able to tear through.

[zac150]

As a walker and a biker I am happy to see trails available for everyone. I generally agree with the track design ideas as it would appear that the area of greatest concern for most is where bikes are going down hill at speed.

I would add to this, a greater understanding of rules applying to giving way. I have always applied the rule that those going upward have right of way because it is harder to stop and get going on a bike (or even when walking) uphill.

[stepbystep]

Im not sure it'd be necessary to go into places like the WOJ or Plateau though. There's alot of areas already destroyed by Forestry Tas, Utilize these areas as mtn bikers dont really care if they are on peaks, they just want a good trail to be able to tear through.

Absolutely, can't think of anything worse than having bikes ripping through the reserve or WOJ, but just to give Tassie a few more options in the adventure tourism sector. As I said the feedback received by riders is they want to come down but can't justify the expense when there is only a couple of glamour tracks available to them. Plenty of minor peaks with amazing views adjacent to forestry, remember Mt Dawson or Snowy North amongst others...

[ILUVSWTAS]

Yes the back of Mt Field would be ideal. The area already has good roads and is a tourist sacrifice. Why not create riding tracks that go Nth towards Mts Lord/Dawson.

[tasadam]

I like the idea. One big problem in Tassie, you get a lot of trees across tracks, and there is no infrastructure to keep them cleared, I remember there were a couple of large trees across the boardwalk on the Arm River track a couple of years ago, there was a significant off track divert required, yet it took more than a year for that to be cleared.
But if I were a MTB'er, I'd consider investing in a small chainsaw to keep my favourite track clear.
Even thought about it for the first couple of KM on the Black Bluff track as a walker.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Quite true Adam.

That's what may make Mt Field an ideal location. Sub alpine across the back, very few trees!!

[mattmacman]

Dual use tracks could work great given correct implementation of rules.

[stepbystep]

Of course all dependent on funding, but if just a FEW tracks were put into the mix and they were properly designed AND resourced I can't see how treefalls would be an issue in Tasmania, branches drop off trees in other states and countries too. Just need some political will and a bit of a broader perspective as to the potential of our national parks and bushland(IMHO).

[anotherwalker]

I'm not a major fan of shared use tracks.

But again its always one or 2 people that ruin it for everyone.

The question is how do you stop the one or 2 people that are complete gooses so that everyone else can enjoy the track in harmony.

I have come across MB riders thinking they were going for a gold medal downhill and almost been taking out here in NSW Blue mountain national park. But then I've come across plenty of other riders that are quite reasonable.

If there was a way to enfore common courtesy and common sense then I might be more of a fan.

There are also tracks here like parts of the "six foot track" where they even allow dirt bike riders. These are even worse than mountain bikes, some think they are Robbie Madison the way they ride and the noise scares away (and possibly endangers) the wildlife. One of the reasons I go bushwalking is to get away from such noise and to enjoy the scenery and wildlife. Shared use tracks is quite a complex topic and one that is always hard to have everyone agree on. Hopefully governments will take this and the environment into consideration and not just the possible tourist dollars that they might get from creating more shared use tracks.

[flyfisher]

Just did a trip on the Saw back range track into old Adamsfield.

I was with a group of 5 4w drives and we shared the track with 5 mountain bikers and we all got along well.

At first they may have thought us rednecks (unfounded) but by days end and a few meetings along the way we all got on well.

One of their number had chain trouble so we were able to give him a lift back to their car a few k's away.

There is really no reason for any conflict at all and it's just up to individuals to get along.

BTW there is a $300 deposit required at Parks HQ at Mt Field for the permit and key which must be obtained by all 4wd's quads AND mountain bikes. It's a credit card swipe which is reversed when the key is returned.

And it't a great day out, with some interesting relics etc.

FF

[stepbystep]

Hi FF,

What's the condition of the track? I have been to Adamsfield from the other side, but have been wanting to do the Sawback track.
Is a high clearance 4WD necessary?

Cheers, Dan

[flyfisher]

The track is in pretty good nick with only one major waterhole, about 25m long and 600-700mm deep and a bit silty.

Two of ours drove through it and 3 of us drove up the side and then dropped in (scary)

We had 4 Patrols with difflocks and 3 or 4 inch lift with mud tyres, and my Rangie with standard air suspension and mud tyres.

We had no recoveries for the day, but some of the downhill bits are a bit (very) slippery .

Probably best with another vehicle but super high clearance not an issue. You have a Cruiser I think? Should be fine.

FF

[stepbystep]

Thanks, yes I've got a cruiser but always nervy if traveling with one vehicle, gas conversion also takes 6 inches out of standard clearance on my back end.

Thanks for the info, very useful!

[icemancometh]

Agree peaksnik, why share a walking track with bikes?
It's a walking track!

We want peace and quiet and they want to go fast...would you build a walking track on a ski field?

And it's not even about right of way rules as accidents will still happen and it's the walkers that will get hurt. Think about how road rules exist blah blah and people still get hurt...and how bikers complain when they get wiped out by a car...same thing will happen to walkers. It's bad enough people riding bikes on the footpath!

[stepbystep]

[quote="icemancometh"]Agree peaksnik, why share a walking track with bikes?
It's a walking track!quote]

Er, that's the point of the thread, check the title, it would be designed as shared use... and if you read the thread there are some considered reasoning behind the limited introduction of them.

[Haakon]

Having lived in Hobart for a bit recently, I came to love the north south track, despite it not being a loop. Still a great ride and wonderfully designed. The newest section down from Junction Cabin is a riot, like a rollercoaster!!

But - not convinced on the sharing business, or the two way. A few sections could certainly be better if one didn't have to hold back for fear of slow/oncoming traffic.

Especially on nice days in tourist season when there's lots of traffic.