Freak hail storms whilst walking

[FootTrack]

Hi all,

Interested to know if people have experienced golf-ball size hail whilst walking, and how they handled the situation? Or if you haven't, what would you do?

The night before last we experienced some pretty big stuff at home that wouldn't have been far off a golf-ball in size. They came hurtling down for around ten minutes, were bouncing off the road about a metre and a half high, and were taking small branches off trees! I'd never seen hail like that before so it was a bit of a shock to the system, and I was glad to have a roof over my head! It got me wondering though how I'd handle such hail whilst walking and whether or not I'd be able to get through it safely...

Obviously if you were close by to your car or a hut you'd take refuge there...but if you weren't, what's the next best option? I'd imagine a tent could receive significant damage in such conditions and you probably wouldn't have time to set it up anyway, if the hail came without warning. Would you just try and protect your scone under a tree or boulder if you were lucky enough to have one close by? Your protection even then would be quiet limited I'd imagine...

Would be interested to hear your thoughts/suggestions!

[wayno]

put your pack over your head?

[GPSGuided]

Not as if you have a choice. Just grab anything that's available for protection, even a jacket can limit the damage.

[north-north-west]

Nearest natural shelter, although you'd want to be careful about trees - I've seen surprisingly large branches ripped off them during hailstorms.
If the stuff was that big a tent would be shredded pretty quick unless it had a considerable amount of shelter itself.

If there's no viable shelter around, I suppose you'd best do something like crouching down and using your pack to get a bit of relief, if it's big enough.

[Gadgetgeek]

I would find a bit of a break anywhere I could, if there is any angle to the hail, you can get a bit of shelter, but I would be worried about branches and trees coming down. Worst case, I'd get my pack up over my head, and keep moving. hail doesn't usually last too long.

[GPSGuided]

Bring out that foam sleeping mattress.

[davidmorr]

When I was a kid, we had a hailstorm like that. Us kids were out collecting the hailstones, never having seen the backyard white like that before. We had cushions held on our heads, which protected that area. But the hail hit other parts of our bodies and it *hurt*. Just think of a golf ball hitting your wrist at high speed. I imagine broken bones could be a possibility, especially small ones like in the wrist.
I would be suggesting that you stop and try to avoid injury.


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[earthgrace]

Hail damage?...still see cars around here with golf ball -sized dents from a storm a few years back. I'd keep my tent for potential rain later.

[Franco]

They usually last only a few minutes, so not having a natural shelter around (cave/overhang/large pine trees/shrubs to crawl under) I would crouch down with my pack covering the shoulder head area.

[DaveNoble]

I've been caught in a hailstorm when walking quite a few times - the thing to do is head for a thicket of scrub.

On one trip - we had set up camp and we heard a noise - it was like a train was coming towards us - it was an approaching storm - and it hailed - large hailstones - I can remember some like crucifixes -and many gold-ball sized. We retreated to our flies - which were made from nylon - and they stood up really well. I think most tents would be fine in hailstorms.

Dave

[perfectlydark]

Got caught out once. As above just find some thick bushes and crouch under. I didnt need my bag over my head as the bushes were thick enough to stop the hail but i would use bag if needed. As franco said if caught out with no shelter crouch under your bag. Dont lastlong

[Drifting]

I did about 25 years ago whitewater canoeing on a remote river in North Georgia. We get out but quick and squatted under the boat. They hurt like blue blazes, but what was worse was the chill that came with them- it went from warm to hottish Georgia summer day to raining ice in no time flat, and we were both wet. It was near the take out, but we both had the start of hypothermia by the time we got to the car.

[GPSGuided]

If one is at camp, would it be safer to flatten the tent temporarily until the hail has finished? Or is it futile?

[neilmny]

If one is at camp, would it be safer to flatten the tent temporarily until the hail has finished? Or is it futile?

I don't know the correct answer but this looks a sensible thing to do GPS.
Letting the ground absorb the impact over just the material of the tent??????
Or would this allow the material to pinch against something hard on the ground?

I've seen a few big hailstone events from the safety of my home/s and I wouldn't like to be
out there amongst it. I recall ricocheting sounds from them, possibly off the roof and as the OP said
hailstones bouncing back up a metre or more.

I think the get under a bush as opposed to a tree or crouch down and tuck under your pack as best you can are good advise.

[FootTrack]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

I think the get under a bush as opposed to a tree or crouch down and tuck under your pack as best you can are good advise.

This might be the best way to go I reckon, Neil.
I would advise covering your face/eyes with your hands as well...I've heard of horses out in paddocks getting their eyes knocked out from hail stones...

If one is at camp, would it be safer to flatten the tent temporarily until the hail has finished? Or is it futile?

If you had your tent up, I think you'd be better off getting in it. There would be too high a risk getting injured from taking it down I'd reckon (you wouldn't be able to protect your head well enough). We had no warning with ours the other day - there was some strong wind in the distance then all of a sudden, large sized hail. By the time you got it down, the hail might well be over too. In addition, you might have strong winds which would make things a whole new ball game. The risks to your safety are probably not worth taking a gamble on for a bit better protection to your tent I don't think...others may have different thoughts though...

[GPSGuided]

If you had your tent up, I think you'd be better off getting in it. There would be too high a risk getting injured from taking it down I'd reckon (you wouldn't be able to protect your head well enough). We had no warning with ours the other day - there was some strong wind in the distance then all of a sudden, large sized hail. By the time you got it down, the hail might well be over too. In addition, you might have strong winds which would make things a whole new ball game. The risks to your safety are probably not worth taking a gamble on for a bit better protection to your tent I don't think...others may have different thoughts though...

Talking about backpacking tents here. Flattening a tent shouldn't take long at all. Pull the stakes and poles. 1 minute job. I don't see the value of jumping in the tent for protection as the hail will likely shred the fabric. At least this way there'll still be a tent left after the hail has passed. As for protection, one can always use the sleeping mattress and/or packs and clothing for protection whilst still hiding under the tent fabric. Don't think it's a good solution?

[DaveNoble]

I said above that I think most tents will be fine in hail storms. They will not get shredded!

Dave

[walkerchris77]

Bring out the tennis racquet.

[Strider]

Empty your pack and put it over your head.

[GPSGuided]

No wonder hiking umbrellas is having a resurgence.

[Moondog55]

Well for a start a 1 in 10 year event isn't a freak so we need to be prepared for it. Secondly the last time I was involved in anything at all like this there was very little warning There is simply no time to think and certainly no time to muck about emptying the rucksack or taking down the tent, the best thing I can think of is hunkering down and protecting your head which is what it did
Prone and hands over my head to absorb as much impact as possible; better broken bones in my hands than a smashed skull, it is is really a worry then pack a hard hat [ a lot of bike riders and skiers already do ] or always wear the thick heavy beanie and a jacket with attached hood
Bullet proof umbrella isn't a bad idea tho, Kevlar/CF ballistic cloth and titanium ribs with a strong CF shaft only $3k- and change I'll start production immediately
Seriously if I see weather like this I'd stay inside; time on Hotham was I never saw it coming

[perfectlydark]

Thats the thing about a freak hail storm, generally you dont see it coming, best you can do is forsee the.conditions where.you might encounter one. Wearing a beanie is a good idea but your right, they are on top of you so fast you dont have time to.fool around packing up or looking for stuff. Just go for.immediate shelter, best you can find and put.anything over your head at hand, be it a bag, rock, whatever.
99% of time youll be fine so long as you arent caught without shelter or do something dumb

[Hallu]

A V shaped tent would have a better chance of surviving the hail than a dome tent, less chance for the hail to hit it at normal incidence which is when it can do the most damage. It should also be losely fastened, the looseness of the fabric will absorb part of the kintetic energy. If you want to learn about hail, check out the 2nd episode of "wild weather" on the BBC, that shows how hail is formed (layers of frozen water) which makes it incredibly strong (stronger than regular ice, as it's in layers). Seeing as how a golf ball (or cricket ball for the more recent occurrence) on the head can kill you, hail can definitely have the same effect. With no sheleer in sight at all, curling in a foetal position on the floor with your head under your pack would indeed be the safest bet.

[mrpotter]

I actually had this happen about 2 weeks ago on the K2K trail while climbing from Cox's River to Mt Cloudmaker. They weren't quite golfball sized, but around 3-4cm.

I quickly huddled down, with my pack still on my back and a jacket over my head, with my head against a decent sized rock boulder.

I'd suggest to anybody stuck in a storm to avoid trees and to not make any contact with them at all. Often when a tree is struck by lightning, the bolt will travel down the side of the tree. Lightning will tend to go for the most elevated point (ie. the tree). Although I'm not exactly sure what happens when a rock boulder is struck by lightning. The only thing that truely is safe from lightning is a huddled, face down position, on solid ground.

[Hallu]

Actually it's more about the pointy shape of the tree than its height. That's why you get juiced when touching your car with the tip of your finger after a drive with air friction building up static electricity. Electricity tend to concentrate on pointy objects as the electric field is inversely proportional to the radius of curvature of the object : the lower the radius (a point) the stronger the field.

[DaveNoble]

Actually it's more about the pointy shape of the tree than its height. That's why you get juiced when touching your car with the tip of your finger after a drive with air friction building up static electricity. Electricity tend to concentrate on pointy objects as the electric field is inversely proportional to the radius of curvature of the object : the lower the radius (a point) the stronger the field.

But its actually safer to have a pointy object near you, if you think about it based on your physics. Sparks (electrical discharges) will not form easily on a sharp point. If you charge up a Van de Graaph Generator and bring up close to it a sharp object (e.g. a pair of scissors) - then you will not get a spark. If you bring up close another metal dome then you will get a big spark. The sharp metal point is used in lightning rods - as invented by Ben Franklin and Nikola Tesla and others. The idea is that a sharp point ionises the air and conducts the charge preventing the buildup that leads to a spark.

Dave

[Onestepmore]

I'm not sure about a tent not shredding in heavy hail, though maybe nylon would hold up OK. When we lived in Manilla, near Tamworth, we had a huge storm come through. Our neighbour had washing on the line, and oddly enough, some of the pegs stayed there, yet the washing looked like shreds of rags pathetically flutting in the bright sunshine that followed. Our vehicle, a 4runner was trashed and written off, the neighbours had to replace some of their roof the dents were so big, and there were broken windows from the hail alone. My vege garden was just a soggy mush

[Walking_addict]

Yes, some hail will easily go right through just about any tent material.
I'm in Brisbane now doing PDR repairs on autos from the storm a month back.
Gazebo reinforced material had holes in them, and this is a lot stronger than lightweight tent material.
Most large hail has the main part and then jagged crystal type ice pieces sticking out.
These would make a mess of fine blood vessels under the skin on your noggin !

[FootTrack]

I saw this article ("How to avoid being struck by lightning") in my local paper several months back and was meaning to post it to this thread at the time. Needless to say I forgot about it until the thunderstorm we had tonight jogged my memory! Has a few interesting bits and bobs in it.

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[dnaylor]

in my twenties i was spring telemark skiing and camped near club lake in Kosciusko Nat park, sat on the trig station on curruthers peak and had lunch, watched this massive storm approach from the Vic alps so made a dash straight down the nearest chute and back to my tent... just got there when this massive crackling boom and a instantaneous flash occurred, then a shower of hailstones came down, i collapsed the tent and dived under my mat and sleeping bag.. still felt like some one was tossing cricket balls at me... only lasted about 30 min then the sun was out... tidied up and went back up curruthers for a ski... the trig station i had been sitting on had taken a direct hit and there was twisted metal and shattered concrete!!!