Trad Walking

[Bruce Parr]

Anyone interested in traditional bushwalking. Hobnails, Japara, no stoves etc.

[Hermione]

It's hypothetically interesting, especially what was achieved with such little (and heavy) equipment. If you mean am I interested in trying it, then no I'm not looking for novel ways to suffer.

[CasualNerd]

I know there's still a paddy palin floorless canvas tent and shellite stove, many other goodies hiding in storage in my parents house. One day I'd like to experience walking with that gear, I think it would make you fully appreciate how much things have changed.

[Xplora]

Burke and Wills type or Myles Dunphy (who carried a rifle to shoot his dinner). Times change and we need to adapt. Well you do not need to I suppose. You choose to. My father lives in the past or the 'good ol days'. I live in this day as much of it as I can stand. Personal choice is what I am saying so I am not bagging your idea but you should define what you feel is traditional.

[Lophophaps]

Deep in the dungeon there's
* a bamboo framed A-frame pack;
* a steel Bushgear pack (modelled on a NZ pack, can't think of the name);
* a ridge tent;
* a more recent single pole tent - similar to a Blacks - a Bushgear Tawonga;
* skis that have wax;
* two sorts of shellite stoves, an older heavy blue one and a choofer, brilliant stove;
* some very heavy sleeping bags, japara and rectangular;
* very old climbing gear, including steel krabs, home-made nuts and laid ropes; and
other lesser items.

I like reading about history, but have no wish to do it again.

[Tortoise]

I know there's still a paddy palin floorless canvas tent and shellite stove, many other goodies hiding in storage in my parents house. One day I'd like to experience walking with that gear, I think it would make you fully appreciate how much things have changed.

My first Overland Track trip was with a Paddy Pallin floorless japara tent. I suddenly feel very old!
Memories of sharing my bed with leeches, only enjoying a trip if it didn't rain and drip on me - running the drips down to the A frame walls all night, etc. One of the biggest steps up for me was changing to a tent with a floor, that didn't drip. I could suddenly enjoy a walk even if it did rain.
Oh, and there was the cuboid pack, which had me turned-turtle hanging onto a branch over Kia ora Creek, when I didn't quite make the jump across.

Last edited by Tortoise on Sun 08 May, 2016 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Hermione]

I remember camping in some kind of floorless A frame tent in the Victorian high country as kid. I also recall that mum had some big wool poncho thing which she somehow how set on fire because she was using the stove in the tent! The first tent I had was still an A frame, it had a floor but it still dripped down the walls especially if anyone was foolish enough to touch it.

[Bogong Moth]

I'm not but know people that are- for limited amounts of time and short distances I can (at least intellectually) see the appeal in some ways.

I suspect BushcraftOz forum might interest you: http://www.bushcraftoz.com/forums/forum.php

[Lophophaps]

Oh, and there was the cuboid pack, which had me turned-turtle hanging onto a branch over Kia ora Creek, when I didn't quite make the jump across.

A mate had an H-frame pack and stumbled. It was a narrow track with saplings on both sides. He landed upside down with two saplings on each side wedged between him and his pack. He could not move his arms. Consideration was given to leaving him there as a decoration, but we decided it was littering, and pulled him out. Much amusement and vocabulary.

The simple Paddy ridge japara A tents had a lovely feature. There was no floor and the ends just tied or zipped together (I cannot recall), so one half of the roof could be pictched horizontally. This was known as Abduling, as in an Arab tent. It was nice to sit like this in daylight and watch the world go past.

[walkon]

Anyone interested in traditional bushwalking. Hobnails, Japara, no stoves etc.

Hobnails, japara, etc.... thats modern walking. I thought you were going traditional. Nothing but barefoot there, a spear and maybe a loin cloth

[GPSGuided]

Did 'Trad Walkers' have an online forum to discuss their plans and equipment? May I suggest we hand write letters to each other to discuss.

[Lophophaps]

Did 'Trad Walkers' have an online forum to discuss their plans and equipment? May I suggest we hand write letters to each other to discuss.

That works. Write the letter, sign it, scan it, and send as an attachment to a PM. Scanning also works with these:

Early Overland Track notes

OLT notes.jpg (13.02 KiB) Viewed 40932 times

[walkon]

Did 'Trad Walkers' have an online forum to discuss their plans and equipment? May I suggest we hand write letters to each other to discuss.

More like cave painting or signal fires

My great granddad was a field naturalist and I have often thought about going bush like he did. Be good laugh and a ripping experience to do

[Giddy_up]

I want Shackleton along on any trip I embark on like this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moondog55]

I posted something similar a while ago
Having started my walking in the A-frame and black japara era I'm really interested in something even earlier

[Allchin09]

Back in 2014 I did a re-enactment walk through the Southern Blue Mountains. Swags were carried and I slept each night in a japara tent. Photos, videos and information about the trip can be found here - https://www.colongwilderness.org.au/abo ... troduction

These days I still carry a japara tent, but haven't carried the swag since.

IMG_2350.JPG (141.99 KiB) Viewed 40790 times

I do however regularly walk with an old Paddy Pallin A frame pack, my latest trip being a three peaks trip with the Anzac dawn service at splendour rock thrown in along the way. That way my take on a SUBW trip from 1966.

[lee737]

I like learning about history, and how our recent ancestors coped without all the gear we have now - but I think if they had an option to use our gear, they would throw the heavy junk they lugged around in a heartbeat....

[clarence]

Great story Alex. I have done a few walks with a guy who is well into his 70s, who started walking when he was 14. I never tire of his campfire stories, knowledge and bush sense.

He even chartered a trawler out to HInchinbrook Island in the 70s for a hiking expedition, when no one even considered walking there.

His son and I are trying to get him to write all of his stories down.

Clarence

[Bushman_Craig]

@Alex, I was SO wanting to participate in your Dunphy trip back in 2014, but it was only about a week after I'd done a Katoomba to Mittagong and I didn't think I'd have been up to it If you ever do another one following that same route I'll be in it for sure. I'm Craig from the "Vintage Bushwalking and Camping" Facebook group - you'll probably recognise some of my pics below.

@Bruce, to answer your initial question "Anyone interested in traditional bushwalking. Hobnails, Japara, no stoves etc.?" My answer is a resounding "hell yes".

I use japara tents and tarps, hobnailed boots, A-frame rucksacks or bushwalking swags. Here are some brands and model names of my gear that some of the older bushwalkers on the forum may recall: Thomas Evans 4-man japara tent, Paddymade 2-man "A" tent, Paddymade 4-man "Tassie" wall tent, Paddymade 2-man "Glen" wall tent, Paddymade "Deluxe Federation" A-Frame rucksack, Paddymade "Explorer" H-frame rucksack, AR Broad A-Frame Rucksack, Karrimor Tote'em Senior H-frame rucksack, Paddymade "Kiandra" superdown sleeping bag, Army Bergan A-Frame rucksack, army jungle hammock...

I do "themed" walks - overnighters mainly - where I'll use a japara tent and an A-frame rucksack, or maybe a bushwalking swag and nosebag.

In April I'm doing the KtoM again, but this time using all traditional gear (swag and nosebag).

It's pretty easy to get into traditional walking and doesn't cost the earth either. You just have to select gear with multiple uses and have an open mind

Here's some recent pics (2015/2016) showing gear in use on traditional trips -


About two weeks ago. A swag walk to that spot just before Ahearns in the Nattai. Spectacular sunset photography from that spot. You can see swag, japara tarp, brass candle lantern, etc.


Not an outdoors shot, but one of my japara tents. This one is a Thomas Evans 4 man japara tent made in Melbourne in the 1950s or 60s.


Swag set up for carry. Including 3 litres of water (one on belt, one slung from the shoulder and another in the nosebag), total carried weight was approx 9kg.


Tuckerbag contents - all carried in old flour bags or calico drawstring bags. Flour, biscuits, rolled oats, dried meat, dried beans, dried vegetables, fruit, rice, tea, coffee, sugar, curry powder, etc. For an overnighter, fresh hard vegetables, bacon and a steak are sometimes carried. If it's wet I have a collection of light mackintosh drawstring bags which will keep things dry short of the nosebag becoming submerged.


Cooking & eating gear. Traditional tinware quartpot and pannikin, tin plate (doubles as a frypan), vintage knife, fork, spoon. Often the KFS is replaced by just a spoon and clasp knife. I will often carry a fencing wire grill if I'm taking fresh food for the first day or two.


Water carriage options - flax water bag, water bottles and water hand-carried in the quartpot or in a billycan.


Bedding I've been using this winter - traditional 1940s-vintage canvas swag, 1940s down sleeping bag, light wool blanket (an army horse blanket), cotton sleeping bag liner used as a paillasse by filling with sheaok needles, leaf litter, etc. This winter I also trialled using broadsheet newspaper sheets on top of the groundsheet and under the swag. Works very well for adding extra insulation and weighs nothing.


Some bits and pieces carried in the pockets and nosebag - clasp knife, bit of string, small whetstone, folding brass candle lantern, a couple of candles, strike-anywhere vestas (British Swan Vestas in an old Bells Wax Vestas tin), traditional flint and steel kit (piece of file, gun flint, charred cloth, dried puffball, slow match and tube) in a tobacco tin.


This is the only pic I have showing my traditional boots. Repro WWI boots with hobnails, blakeys and heel irons. I don't have tricounis like Alex's boots in his pic above. Before I had the leather-soled boots I used a pair of Rossi Mulgas.


If you're interested in seeing what you can learn from the old timers, John LeGay Brereton's book "Landlopers" is packed with wisdom. Search for it on Project Gutenberg Australia for an online copy.


As those who use UCO candle lanterns will no doubt agree, there's nothing nicer than settling down with a bush-brewed cuppa by the soft light of a candle lantern.


Quart pot on the boil. The quartpot and pannikin is a vital part of my traditional equipment.

Last edited by Bushman_Craig on Tue 06 Sep, 2016 9:35 am, edited 3 times in total.

[Moondog55]

Nice collection of old kit

[Bushman_Craig]

Thanks mate.

If anyone else is interested in getting into a bit of traditional walking with the swag and nosebag, it's not as difficult as you may think. There's a lot of older resources out there which can help you put the kit together and show you how to use it.

I get a fair bit of inspiration (and info) from old books like "Landlopers", "With Swag and Billy", "On the Open Road in Victoria" (all on Gutenberg Australia) and other newer books such as Melissa Harper's "Ways of the Bushwalker" (which should be in your book case anyway - a magnificent book on the origins of bushwalking and the bushwalker's conservation movements) in Australia.

My first edition of Paddy Pallin's "Bushwalking and Camping" (undated, but according to Australian copyright records was published in 1933) has a section on swaggin' it written by a Mr MJ Dunphy of whom you may have heard.

Then there's old photos which reveal a lot about how this old stuff was used...

A small selection from the Myles Dunphy Collection in the Mitchell Library - circa 1910-1915








From HJ Tompkins' "With Swag and Billy" 1910 -







Even a couple from the Melbourne Walkers, circa 1911 -

[racca]

They're excellent pics. Thanks for sharing.

[Moondog55]

If we organised a 19th century walk would we be allowed to shoot our dinner as we went? I really miss those days when roos and bunnies were fair game everywhere

[puredingo]

Same here, Moondoggy...I like the photo of the young bloke sitting up against the tree with a rifle either side. One those guns is a .22 browning pump action, a handy bit of kit.

[Moondog55]

What would differ in a kit from 1890 and a kit from 1920? From 1950? I remember what we used in 1965 ROFL Heavy army surplus and woollen blankets "borrowed" from my bed
Assuming the walker was able to afford what was considered a reasonable state of the art LW kit at the time?
Of course I have picked 1890 because that's when the venerable .22 LR became available
I've wanted to assemble an old style kit for quite a while but the extremely high cost of good woollen blankets new has held me back from attempting a LW kit

[Bushman_Craig]

@moondog,

The kits I have pictured above are pretty standard for the 1890s to the 1940s. The sleeping bag is a bit of a luxury item for the period - these were available in the US and Canada at the time but were called "sleeping robes".

A lot of the old timers found a good woolen blanket to be expensive, particularly during the depressions of the 1890s and 1920s-30s. One distinctively Australian equivalent was the "Wagga" or "Murrumbidgee" Rug. The Wagga Rug was a cut down hessian woolpack, well washed with a blanket sewn inside it. The Murrumbidgee Rug was the same thing but had a flannel sheet sewn to it rather than a wool blanket. The hessian was boiled and washed many times before being used and the resulting blanket was soft and warm without being scratchy. If you can't get hold of a wool blanket then a Murrumbidgee Rug may be the go? I use hessian bags which I get from pet stores (Pet Barn sells them). They sell them as dog bedding. Two or three hessian bags ($5-7 each) plus a flannel sheet from an op shop or Salvos store you'll have the makings of a traditional Australian blanket.

I have a few single bed woolen blankets I inherited from my late grandmother in rather garish pink and green tartan. These can often be found at op shops as well for not much money. I think wool can be dyed too?

In Australia at least you'll find that swag and nosebags were in use in the 1890s rather than rucksacks or knapsacks, so putting together a homemade, Dunphy-style swag roll (light oilskin or japara tarp/swag cover, groundsheet, blanket/s, a pair of leather straps or rope, shoulder strap, cotton pillowcase as a nosebag) is a much smaller initial outlay than finding and restoring an A-frame rucksack.

My warmer weather bedding consists of:

Mackintosh groundsheet rain cape (1940s or 50s)
Palliasse cover (1940s - came with my army swag - light canvas bag which is filled with leaf litter, pine/sheoak needles, etc. to make a relatively LNT bushman's mattress - the old timers just used to cut foliage and stack it in a pile and sleep on it)
Canvas army swag cover (1940s)
Light army horse blanket (1960s) for warmer weather
Grey European army surplus wool service blanket (1960s?) for cooler weather where the big sleeping bag is not needed
Cotton double bedsheet sewn together halfway up one side as a sleeping bag liner
A few broadsheets of the 'Strine newspaper underneath the swag cover add a surprising amount of insulation value. These sheets weigh very little and have alternative uses...

Last edited by Bushman_Craig on Tue 13 Sep, 2016 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

[Moondog55]

My grandma had several of those patchwork blankets, actually because they were backed with cotton they were warmer than the standard woollen blankets. Plenty of woollen blankets here as I keep them for bushfire kits in both the cars but all so heavy I'd rather not carry them if it could be avoided.
I have seen American sleeping bags made from tightly woven fabric with woollen insulation in museum photos from around that period [ turn of the century] but I understand that they were very expensive
I have also seen shoulder harnesses to hold rolled blankets and similar items. I've never carried a swag; A frames were available when I was a scout and that was what we used. those being much much cheaper than H-frames like the Mountain Mule and its clones.
Hessian like the old wool packs is much better quality that the cheap and readily available modern stuff and it can be washed hard and softened up.
One thing I do need to remember tho is that back then we usually only went bushwalking in the shoulder seasons of Spring and Autumn, summer being too hot or too dangerous because of bushfires or too cold and wet for our gear to cope with. Adults of course went whenever they wanted to and could afford much better gear but I was a tadpole back then and not yet working

[Bushman_Craig]

A bit of a segue from this topic - viewtopic.php?f=15&t=24086 ...

"Trad" grundies for men.

I just saw a camping and disposals store in Perth is finally releasing boxes of traditional undies they have been sitting on since those heady days of the army disposals auctions of the late 1940s and 50s. These are pretty standard types of men's under pants for the circa 1890s to 1940s era. I own a pair of the shorter type and find them quite comfortable, but a little scratchy until you hit them with some wool wash a couple of times.


WWII Australian army surplus. Stretchy wool fabric, almost feels like merino. I suspect these are a wool/cotton mix. Button fly. These are the closest thing you'd find to today's boxer shorts.


WWII Australian army surplus. I don't yet own any of these, but I have ordered a pair which hopefully won't be too big. These are supposedly made of the same wool-type fabric but are 3/4 length with elasticated cuffs. These would look similar to the various longer-legged compression style pants, but without the compression factor of course.


1950s Australian Army Surplus. I guess you could call these long johns pants. These are definitely a wool/cotton mix and were designed for cold weather use in WWII and Korea. Even in super-cold weather I don't tend to bushwalk wearing thermal trousers, but I might grab a pair of these as wintertime pyjamas for camp use.

[Moondog55]

Nice
Can't afford any more gear at all at all AT ALL
But maybe in a very small voice
"Maybe?"