Horses and heritage

[davidmorr]

This is an example of a politician lying:

Peter Cochrane, the former local MP for Monaro and the president of the Snowy Mountains Bush Users group, has called the planned cull a "massacre".
...
"The traditional methods of roping and trapping could save the Government, the taxpayer, a lot of money and would result in a greater amount of horses being rehomed.

The "traditional methods" cost several hundred dollars per horse, and the last figure I saw had over half of them go straight to an abattoir. By contrast, aerial shooting costs about $40/horse iirc.

It is typical that he is claiming it will save money when it is the most expensive method of removing the horses.

[Bogong Moth]

Roping and trapping cause far more distress and suffering to a prey animal like a horse than either ground or a arial shooting, and are far less efficient. A large proportion of captured brumbies are not appropriate for training/breaking anyway, and suffer more as t hey make their way to the knackers. The pro-Brumby part of society will never admit that though.

I am a horserider as well as a bushwalker. Whilst I don't hate horses like some here do, they have absolutely no place outside a domestic setting in Australia and should be completely eradicated from parks. Preferably in an efficient and humane manner. Fortunately arial shooting is both of these things.

[Xplora]

Interesting article. First problem with it is they call these horses brumbies. They are properly known as feral horses and like other feral animals should be subject to control. I wonder how the people trying to save them feel about shooting of other feral animals like pigs, dogs, cats and deer etc. I own 4 horses and ride them in the Alpine NP. I quite like horses and have ridden for 40 years. Personally I would not own a feral horse if it were given to me. Too much inbreeding. There are also some who are introducing horses to the environment to add to the gene pool. I was told by another forum member of a mare with a cow bell. This is probably to get a foal from the feral stallion. I also think there is still a study being conducted on feral horse numbers but I know the numbers are high enough to warrant some drastic measure. They have no place in our culture or heritage and to say so would mean you have to include cats and other ferals. These horses are not descended from the light horse stock. Passive ground trapping is very slow. Once trapped they are often dragged onto a landcruiser tray back with a cage. They certainly do not willingly walk up so the operation is stressful. Some of the horses I have seen around the Cobberas area are worm infested and poor in condition even when there is plenty of feed. Aerial shooting can be humane if done by experienced operators and it is by far the most effective. I know of one who used a Mosberg 12 gauge bolt action shotgun with a variable choke. Very effective for a quick kill and that is what is hoped. The percentage of horses rehomed is and will always be low. Brumby associations usually take the pick of the catch and let the rest go. I really don't have too much problem with running the horses. They are not very fit or at least no where near as fit as the chase horse so they give up quickly. Once exhausted they are much easier to manage.

[north-north-west]

I love horses, but your average brumby is generally a very poor specimen - knock kneed, hollow backed & worm blown. Feral horses also have drastically shortened lives compared to domestic horses.
The heritage argument has always been ridiculous. You pick and chose the best things from the past to carry into the future. Introduction & spread of invasive plant and animal species and the destruction of the environment are hardly amongst the best practices of the past.

[davidmorr]

It would be good if these comments were made as a submission on the draft plan. The link is in the e-mail below.

You are receiving this email as you have previously had interest or involvement in the community and stakeholder engagement process for the Kosciuszko National Park wild horse management plan review.

Please find attached a media release from the NSW Environment Minister, announcing the release of the Kosciuszko National Park Draft Wild Horse Management Plan.
The Draft Plan is on public exhibition from 1st May until 8th July, 2016, and during this time the community is encouraged to provide feedback.

The Draft Wild Horse Management Plan and associated documents can be viewed and downloaded online as well as details on how to provide feedback can be found at:
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/protectsnowies/

Display hard copies of the draft plan and associated documents are available for viewing at the NPWS Office and Information centres at Tumut, Khancoban, Jindabyne, Queanbeyan and the OEH Head Office, Goulburn St, Sydney.

NPWS will also host a series of community ‘open house’, information and feedback sessions in relation to the draft plan in Tumut, Jindabyne and Queanbeyan during the May/June exhibition period. Further details of these will be notified in the near future.

Any general enquiries in regard to the planning process should be forwarded to the KNP wild horse plan mailbox at: Kosciuszko.wildhorseplan@environment.nsw.gov.au

Any media enquiries in regard to the draft wild horse management plan should be made to the OEH Public Affairs Team on Ph. 02 9995 5347

Regards

Rob Gibbs
Ranger / Project Officer
Kosciuszko National Park
Wild Horse Management Plan Review Project

[Xplora]

It would be good if these comments were made as a submission on the draft plan. The link is in the e-mail below.

Thanks Dave - done

[GPSGuided]

The heritage argument has always been ridiculous. You pick and chose the best things from the past to carry into the future. Introduction & spread of invasive plant and animal species and the destruction of the environment are hardly amongst the best practices of the past.

Agreed. Not exactly something to be proud of and so called heritage value. Unfortunately, people love horses and 'The Man from Snowy River' have gave those horses a positive spin, most people have little education on the facts beyond that.

[sambar358]

The management of the feral horse numbers in the Vic ANP and the NSW Kosi Park will always be an emotional issue for some and a tricky one for the government of the day to dance around but if they are serious about reducing the impact of the horses on the environment long-term then the hard and possibly unpopular decisions need to be made regardless of any political backlash in the short-term. A few weeks ago I drove over to Jindabyne via Buchan, Black Mountain and Willis along the Barry Way and that was certainly an eye-opener in regards to the huge amount of feral horse sign along the road, the Snowy River flats and on all the ridges and spurs leading down to the river and suitable feed and water areas. From Willis onwards in particular the horse dung virtually covered the entire road in places and any normal low-slung sedan would be literally pushing s#*t uphill all along that road ! Horse travel trails down spurs to the river flats were deep, extensive and well-travelled and the river flats were heavily browsed and pugged-up by their hooves. If this level of horse sign is representative of what it's like in most of the Park then there are some very serious issues with the feral horses that need to be dealt with as a matter of urgency regardless of the potential political fall-out.

We saw mob of 20 or so horses in on spot just above the road consisting of a few mares and foals, some juveniles and young males and a couple of mature stallions and none of these were your trypical scruffy little stunted bush brumby-types often depicted in the media. One of these stallions in partuclar was quite a handsome beast......around 17 hands in height with a sleek jet black coat with 4 white socks and big white blaze down his forehead.....a fair bit of stockhorse blood in that one I'd think. Several of the mares were also of the tri-colour "paint" type.......and none from this mob in any way looked anything like the oft-depicted popular view of the scruffy little "wild bush horses" ! I recently heard of the NSW Parks conducting an aerial cull targetting deer along the Snowy river above Willis and apparently this was very successful acounting for in excess of 140 deer, some pigs and a few wild dogs. If helicopter shooting of feral deer, pigs and dogs is OK for NSW Parks to embrace then I'm surprised that this method is not on the table for feral horse management in the Kosi Park.......likely fall-out from their last botched effort I'd think and the "once bitten-twice shy" approach !

It'll be interesting to see how all this unfolds in the coming months.....will the NSW government and Parks "bit the bullet" and have a real serious crack at this issue for the sake of the long-term benefit of the environment or will they do as has been done in the past.....surrender to the will of public opinion in order to preserve their own polictical future in the short term ? Time will tell I guess. Cheers

s358

[Xplora]

I doubt the political backlash would last very long. These people are really in the minority and will not affect voting to any large degree. The RSPCA are probably the biggest voice when it comes to aerial culling and the media love a good bleeding heart story. Sorry for the pun. The huge dung piles are usually from the stallion who marks his territory along the trails. The estimates of 6000 may be a little low and then across the border there are just as many. The management plan had a public safety section which focussed on horses crossing roads and being hit by cars. I had a quick read but did not find anything about the risk of a stallion attacking walkers. We were challenged by one at Cowombat flat once and I was certain had we continued toward him it would have been on. I also met a man years ago who had one attack him while he was riding on the BHP. It took a piece out of his saddle. Most of the BHP horses are pretty quiet and used to people now. I can get within 3m of a stallion near Mt. Jim and that is with a mare and foal at foot. Parks Vic have been selectively culling that area for years and any dangerous horses are taken out.

[Lophophaps]

Wild areas are contiguous across the border. The closest I came to a feral horse was in light scrub approaching The Pilot from the south a short distance from the summit. I came around a bush and the horse was really close, scared the hell out of me. We both backed off. Policy in one state impacts on the other. What chance of Victoria following the NSW lead?

[sambar358]

Lophophaps......you would hope that Parks Vic would support NSW Parks and adopt a similar policy and begin horse reduction activities in the ANP as well but I think those days are a fair way off yet and PV still seem to be clinging to the old non-lethal methods of trapping, capture and re-housing that now seem not to be the favoured control measures under consideration for use in NSW. At a meeting a couple of years ago in Melb to discuss strategies for the reduction of sambar deer numbers in several areas within the ANP including Falls Creek, one of the deer hunting org. members present raised the issue of the feral horse damage in these areas and stated that it seemed to be far worse than that of the sambar deer. One of the senior PV staffers present was quick to respond stating something along the lines of "we are all here to discuss the damage being done by the sambar deer, feral horses are not on the agenda !" So I think that pretty-well sums-up the attitude of PV to their horse issues.....very firmly in the "too-hard basket"......it's far easier to point the finger at the introduced deer as the root of all evil.

Over the years I've had a few pretty close encounters with feral stallions especially when I've been fly fishing for trout in the upper Indi above Tom Groggin Station where there seems to be a high horse population. It's certainly pretty un-nerving to have 500kg of cranky wild-eyed stallion run straight at you snorting and thrashing the ground with his hooves time and again as he tries to intimidate you to leave his patch. I have also heard of a few trail riders who have had problems in this area with wild stallions trying to get "a bit too friendly with their saddle mares".....and I'll leave the "how friendy" bit up to your imagination......but it was a tad more that just standing off at a respectable distance and watching them pass with a lusty twinkle is his eye ! The feral horses will never be eliminated from the mountains but when their numbers get to the stage where they are causing serious environmental damage then sentiment needs to give way to common sense and hard decisons need to be made to address the problem. Hopefully NSW Parks will weather the inevitable storm over their feral horse management proposal and not water it down as it has been done in the past.......and it'd be equally signficant in Parks Vic supported NSW Parks by enacting a similar program in the ANP. Interesting times ahead I think. Cheers

s358

[Zingiberaceae]

I wrote up a discussion on the various arguments used for and against the management of horses in the high country a while ago, https://wordsandwilds.wordpress.com/201 ... by-debate/

In any case, I summarised the heritage argument as such:
The other argument is the heritage argument, and this seems to be very widely held. A considerable amount of Australia’s myths and heritage are connected with brumbies and the high country, from Banjo Patterson’s poetry, to the Silver Brumby books by Elyne Mitchell, to the brumbies used as war horses. There are obvious flaws in the heritage argument, the most prominent being that we cherry-pick which parts of our heritage we wish to maintain and which we wish to ignore (are cane toads part of our heritage too? And what about the displaced Aboriginal heritage, which did not involve horses?). Afterall, there is no inherent and necessary logic to maintaining something simply because it used to happen. Nevertheless, we do have a strong cultural and romantic attachment to brumbies that would be ridiculous to ignore. Most people enjoy spotting brumbies in the high country, and the wild horses continue to draw tourists and locals alike.

I've been following the conversation about the draft management plan online and mostly it's just people yelling at Parks for their apparently blood-lust ways. So it's great to actually see a real discussion happening

[Xplora]

I wrote up a discussion on the various arguments used for and against the management of horses in the high country a while ago, https://wordsandwilds.wordpress.com/201 ... by-debate/

In any case, I summarised the heritage argument as such:
The other argument is the heritage argument, and this seems to be very widely held. A considerable amount of Australia’s myths and heritage are connected with brumbies and the high country, from Banjo Patterson’s poetry, to the Silver Brumby books by Elyne Mitchell, to the brumbies used as war horses. There are obvious flaws in the heritage argument, the most prominent being that we cherry-pick which parts of our heritage we wish to maintain and which we wish to ignore (are cane toads part of our heritage too? And what about the displaced Aboriginal heritage, which did not involve horses?). Afterall, there is no inherent and necessary logic to maintaining something simply because it used to happen. Nevertheless, we do have a strong cultural and romantic attachment to brumbies that would be ridiculous to ignore. Most people enjoy spotting brumbies in the high country, and the wild horses continue to draw tourists and locals alike.

I've been following the conversation about the draft management plan online and mostly it's just people yelling at Parks for their apparently blood-lust ways. So it's great to actually see a real discussion happening

This is very well put. Deer have a heritage in this country nearly as long as the feral horses. Deer hunting as well. I am not a deer hunted and would be most happy to see them all go from the NP but I am not against hunting them. Trout also have a heritage and I love fishing for them but they too are introduced and have caused problems. People love seeing deer in the wild too (except in the headlights) but it seems there has been no cry about the huge culls that have been conducted in many Vic NP. Certainly not by the bleeding heart horse lovers. They care nothing for deer and their complaint is because of their association with horses. I never did Pony Club but I think it is responsible for a lot of these romantic ideas and attractions. Horses have been a work animal for me mostly but I did study dressage for 3 years. Could not stand horse people in that discipline. I love my horses but they are have to serve a purpose. There are too many horses domesticated already and thousands are sent to the dog food can every year. This is largely the fault of the racing industry and the bleeding hearts are trying to save them as well. Most of these will never see a rider and they are simply put out to pasture. The weight of the 'save the brumby' argument falls entirely on their cultural heritage to the land and that argument is flawed in so many ways. I do however agree that any cull should be done as humanely as possible having regard to the problem caused by the animal. A drastic problem requires drastic measures in the short term. The lessons we should learn from this is to not allow things to get to that stage before we take action. This seems to be the problem with the agencies who care for our parks. I know there is so much red tape and budget analysis to go through. Invariably a decision is handed down from the minister in charge and it is not always in line with best practice.

[Zingiberaceae]

Thanks zplora! Yes, deer are a strong analogy (better than cane toads etc) because they do similar damage in similar areas and could similarly attract our love... but do not. This makes it all the more clear that the special place that horses have in our culture is the reason for their veneration (fine enough) and for the illogical nature of the arguments used to defend them (less fine), including blaming everything else for the destruction that they cause. I have honestly seem people claim that WOMBATS are causing some of the damage up in the high country - not because the person claiming this is against wombats, but because it is inconceivable in their world that a cause could cause anguish to the environment.

After all, in the Silver Brumby series, Thowra is the king of the bushland, and the horse is therefore MORE native, and MORE important than the native animals themselves.

[north-north-west]

After all, in the Silver Brumby series, Thowra is the king of the bushland, and the horse is therefore MORE native, and MORE important than the native animals themselves.

As a bona fide Silver Brumby tragic, I feel compelled to correct this. He's King of the brumbies and the greatest stallion the Snowies have seen (at least until Baringa grows up) but there are numerous references throughout the books as to the longer and closer bond the native animals have with the land, and their superior knowledge of it. References will be supplied if requested.

[Xplora]

As a bona fide Silver Brumby tragic, I feel compelled to correct this.

This is truly a tragic story. Thank you for sharing. I hate the emoticons things but I am sure one is appropriate. I do love your wit.

[Zingiberaceae]

As a bona fide Silver Brumby tragic, I feel compelled to correct this.

I am happy to genuflect to your undoubtedly superior knowledge of the books! Even so, there is a sense of the nativeness of the brumbies in the series that I think has permeated our culture. The romantic imagery of brumbies cantering across the high country is far more evocative for many people than a mob of roos.

[north-north-west]

Even so, there is a sense of the nativeness of the brumbies in the series that I think has permeated our culture. The romantic imagery of brumbies cantering across the high country is far more evocative for many people than a mob of roos.

Unfortunately true. I think many people see the beauty of horses and invest the species with an unfounded romanticism, rather than accepting the truth of the matter - they're not particularly intelligent animals and can be highly destructive in certain environments.

I wonder how a lot of those people would cope with the fact that the Mitchells accepted the need for the end of cattle grazing in the KNP, despite being one of the old, long-term grazing families. Can't help thinking that if they accepted that, they'd also accept what the science tells us about the impact of brumbies, and support their removal.

Fact is, those books are the only part of the Snowies where brumbies should be allowed to stay.

[Xplora]

they're not particularly intelligent animals and can be highly destructive in certain environments.

Horses are not dumb. They have a great ability to learn things and remember. You can to a great extent change their behaviour over time with training. By this I mean you can teach them. I used to think sheep were dumb but then I saw one at an experimental station unlock a door to get into the feed. It was a barrel bolt and it lifted the bolt, slid it across then pulled on it to open the door. It had never been trained to do that and only saw the person who fed them do it. I have also watched a horse (with feral blood in it) get through a 5 strand wire fence to escape. It was slow and methodical giving the impression of considerable thought to the consequences of getting legs caught up. That to me was not dumb. I could have stopped him but that would be more dangerous and I was intrigued as to how he would always get out. I do agree about how destructive they can be. They dig up the ground for a dust bath and churn up the bogs as they pass through. Horses in the wild will generally follow the same path when travelling and it can get quite worn very quickly, especially in wet conditions.

[north-north-west]

You get outliers in all species. Pretty well any animal can be trained if you invest the time and energy and go about it the right way. Anyway, there's a difference between 'not particularly intelligent' and 'dumb'. The average horse is not capable of the complicated thought processes depicted in Mitchell's Brumby books. It's way OTT anthropomorphisation.

I will, however, admit to considerable gratitude to brumbies in some areas for the provision of pads through the bush.

[Xplora]

You get outliers in all species. Pretty well any animal can be trained if you invest the time and energy and go about it the right way. Anyway, there's a difference between 'not particularly intelligent' and 'dumb'. The average horse is not capable of the complicated thought processes depicted in Mitchell's Brumby books. It's way OTT anthropomorphisation.

I will, however, admit to considerable gratitude to brumbies in some areas for the provision of pads through the bush.

Never having or likely to read the books I can only say it would be fair not to raise these animals to the level of human thought. I know a great many horse owners who place their own feelings onto their pets. That is why a lot of horse owners rug their horses in winter. Some do it so they do not develop a thick coat and that makes it better for riding but many do it because they feel cold so the horses must as well. Maybe Mitchell's brumbies were like Mr. Ed.

[Zingiberaceae]

Fact is, those books are the only part of the Snowies where brumbies should be allowed to stay.

A powerful statement! But in spite of my (evident) support for the much stronger management of brumbies in the high country, I do not necessarily think that removing all of them is necessarily the best answer. Over in NZ the Kaimanawa horses are maintained at a steady population of a mere few hundred individuals, closely monitored and regularly mustered. This is in part a pragmatic solution - you'll never win the argument for removing ALL the horses, so you might as well fight for reasonable (few) numbers of them - but I think that it is also an acknowledgement of our value of our European heritage for so many people. Just as walking trails and huts greatly improve the experience of the high country for many people, so too do the brumbies.

Thoughts?

[climberman]

Over in NZ the Kaimanawa horses are maintained at a steady population of a mere few hundred individuals, closely monitored and regularly mustered. This is in part a pragmatic solution - you'll never win the argument for removing ALL the horses, so you might as well fight for reasonable (few) numbers of them - but I think that it is also an acknowledgement of our value of our European heritage for so many people. Just as walking trails and huts greatly improve the experience of the high country for many people, so too do the brumbies.

Thoughts?

This is the current NPWS proposal.

[davidmorr]

I got this e-mail today. The comment period has been extended. It appears there is quite a bit of misinformation being spread around.

Dear Sir/Madam,
You are receiving this email as you have previously had interest or involvement in the community and stakeholder engagement process for the Kosciuszko National Park wild horse management plan review.

In response to a number of submissions and representations from both stakeholder groups and members of the community, the exhibition and submissions period on the Kosciuszko National Park Draft Wild Horse Management Plan has been extended a further 6 weeks, with submissions being accepted until 5.00pm Friday 19th August, 2016.

NPWS will also host a series of community ‘open house’, information and feedback sessions in relation to the draft plan in Tumut, Jindabyne and Queanbeyan and with the extension of the exhibition period, these will now be held in July/August the dates yet to be confirmed. NPWS will also be contacting key stakeholder groups to arrange a series of briefing and feedback sessions in relation to the Draft Plan during the exhibition period. Further details of these will be notified in the near future.

Community, stakeholder and media interest in the draft plan has as expected been high. Unfortunately however there is a great deal of misinformation in regard to the draft plan that has been presented in both media reports and social media. It has been wrongly represented that the draft plan proposes to use aerial shooting or recreational hunters/shooters for ground shooting as control methods for example. In an effort to better inform stakeholders and the community in regard to the draft plan a common Question and Answers section has been added to the ‘Protecting the Snowies’ engagement website.

NPWS understands that this is a very complex issue, with deeply felt emotions from some members of the community.
This complexity is reflected in the draft plan and the detail and length of all of the supporting reports, documents and information. To gain a greater understanding of the issue and its complexity the NPWS recommends that people read all of these documents to gain an informed opinion on the issues involved. It is simply not possible to gain this understanding from a short media article or social media comment.

The extended draft plan exhibition period of now 16 weeks is to allow the public further time to digest all of the information in and associated with the draft management plan.

The community is strongly encouraged to continue to shape the development of this plan and have their say. (at: kosciuszko.wildhorseplan@environment.nsw.gov.au )

The Draft Wild Horse Management Plan and associated documents can be viewed and downloaded online as well as details on how to provide feedback can be found at:
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/protectsnowies/

Display hard copies of the draft plan and associated documents are available for viewing at the NPWS Office and Information centres at Tumut, Khancoban, Jindabyne, Queanbeyan, Bombala and the OEH Head Office, Goulburn St, Sydney.

Any general enquiries in regard to the planning process should be forwarded to the KNP wild horse plan mailbox at: Kosciuszko.wildhorseplan@environment.nsw.gov.au

Any media enquiries in regard to the draft wild horse management plan should be made to the OEH Public Affairs Team on Ph. 02 9995 5347

Regards

Mick Pettitt
Regional Manager
Southern Ranges Region
NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service

[Allchin09]

The informative Q&A document can be found here - http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resou ... 160300.pdf

[slparker]

Fact is, those books are the only part of the Snowies where brumbies should be allowed to stay.

A powerful statement! But in spite of my (evident) support for the much stronger management of brumbies in the high country, I do not necessarily think that removing all of them is necessarily the best answer. Over in NZ the Kaimanawa horses are maintained at a steady population of a mere few hundred individuals, closely monitored and regularly mustered. This is in part a pragmatic solution - you'll never win the argument for removing ALL the horses, so you might as well fight for reasonable (few) numbers of them - but I think that it is also an acknowledgement of our value of our European heritage for so many people. Just as walking trails and huts greatly improve the experience of the high country for many people, so too do the brumbies.

Thoughts?

After having grown up in Tasmania i am still mystified how feral animals in a national park could ever be countenanced, let alone celebrated.

I was walking on the Bogong High Plains last weekend and, out of the mist on the plains, emerged a mob sheltering from the winds behind a knoll. Whilst it is always lovely seeing wild animals in the bush, and there a few sights more thrilling than a mob of wild horses, they no more belong on the plains than elephants, bison or fire ants.

It is a conceit to resort to misty eyed, folksy, references to banjo paterson poems, chipped enamel cups of billy tea and akubras to prosecute a case for feral horses in alpine areas.

If any certain tradition exists on the high plains it is seasonal visitation by aboriginal clans over the last 10s of thousands of years. That trumps the remnants of recent commercial exploitation by any means of temporal or custodial reckoning.

[north-north-west]

You tell 'em Mr Parker!!!!!!!!!

[Zingiberaceae]

After having grown up in Tasmania i am still mystified how feral animals in a national park could ever be countenanced, let alone celebrated.

Tasmanians seem to have much more sense on this issue. When I wrote up my original post about the brumbies starving in the snow https://wordsandwilds.wordpress.com/2014/07/31/dead-horse-gap-the-brumby-debate/ I asked one of my horsey friends from the Tasman Peninsula what she thought about the issue, and she agreed that it was horrible that the suffered and destroyed the environment so that we could feel good about them being up there.

[Xplora]

I read your blog and found it very interesting. You do write well and I can see the empathy you have for all involved in this debate, including the horses. Horses need to eat a lot more in winter to maintain their body temperature and the grass on the ground has little nourishment so that means it may provide some roughage to fill them up but it is not enough to sustain body weight. They could move out of the snow but mobs or herds tend to stay in defined boundaries and a dominant herd will push another herd off their territory and fight to keep them away. It all sounds terrible when we see these animals in poor condition or starving to death but another thought is that it is the natural order of things. We feel bad about it because we are a higher order animal and horses are usually pets or people like them. Humans interfere so much in the natural order of things because of their own feelings or because they feel we have been entrusted with the protection of the lesser animals. It is hard not to interfere. Have you ever watched a documentary about lions in Africa and see them starve to death. I have. In order for them to live they have to kill something else but no longer have the strength to do so. It is very sad and you wonder how the person filming copes when they feel so attached to the animal but cannot intervene. Horses starving to death in the snow shows how they are not suited to that environment and is a strong argument for them to be removed. Humans get more upset when we see a large animal starving but are horses more important than the Broad Toothed Rat which is endangered and most likely starves to death and extinction because the horses have eaten all its food. Nobody likes rats or cares they are starving. What about frogs and skinks? Peat bogs and wetlands destroyed by horses are threatening their survival but they are too small to be of any concern to those wanting to protect a so called heritage. It shows me those wanting to save the horse care nothing for any other animal which has a heritage on the landscape for thousands of years and have elevated this mongrel bred animal to a status above all others. Here is some good reading http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... Horses.pdf

[Zingiberaceae]

Agreed Xplora, horses provoke an emotional response in people that our own natives animals often do not, which is quite a shame. I personally think that removing them would be best for them and DEFINITELY best for the environment. But this opinion dismisses a large proportion of the community up here that really does have an emotional connection to the brumbies and the high country. It's not adequate to just say SCIENCE! and go forward from there on every policy(although that is of course the dream!). We do need to take into account the convictions of other people and convince them of the necessity of the stronger management of the brumbies, but we can only do that if we have them at least partly on side, by reducing but not decimating the brumby population.