Bushwalk Australia

I just thought that I would share my story with you.

After getting back into bush walking in 2012 it soon became my passion. I spent every spare moment planning the next walk and dreaming of longer and harder walks to do in the future.
Not only was I enjoying being fitter and thinner than I had been for many years I was also mentally in a better place than I had been for quite some time
That was until my right knee began getting worse

I have had bad knees since I was a teenager. Lots of crunching, grinding and swelling. I had 2 arthroscopies in my twenties to clean up my right knee and they certainly did help.
My knee has always let me know when it wasn't happy, heading downhill was never something I looked forward to but if I took my time and used my good leg when in certain situations I could go on without too much trouble. Nothing some pain killers and ice wouldn't help at the end of the day.

In the early months of 2013 it was giving me more grief than usual so I booked in to get it looked at. Off to the referred specialist Dr. followed by a MRI. The result showed Articular cartilage and Meniscus damage. At 36 I "have the knees of an old man" according to the Dr. He recommended another arthroscopy and warned me of the chances of further problems (minimal). Something I had heard twice before.

I booked in to have it done in August '13, while work was quiet, and was told that all went well. I did the exercises, used crutches, iced it every 2 hours and didn't do what I was told not to do. Basically I did everything the Dr told me to do. After about 2 weeks when I was finally able to walk around a little bit my knee was WORSE THAN BEFORE
I couldn't believe it After discussing it with the Dr it was suggested that I needed to wait a few months and keep up the phyiso because it could still improve. It didn't. So in January 5 months after the previous scope I went back in so the Dr could have another look to see if he could improve it. He Couldn't

I was told to give it 6 months because it may still improve. It didn't. I found the best physio that I could (he has many years experience with state and national sports teams) and over several months did a range of daily exercises, that didn't stress my knee, to strengthen my leg muscles. It still didn't help at all.

So here I am today. I am unable to run around with my two young kids, unable to walk any real distance without pain, unable to kneel or squat down, unable to use steps without pain, unable to swim without pain, basically anything that involves bending my right knee with load on in causes pain and swelling. I have tried glucosomine, fish oils and green lipped muscle extract with no positive effect.
Throughout this time has been hell for me. While I understand 'it could be worse', I have lost the one most valued passion/interest that I had. It is something I think of and are reminded of everyday.
We have just sold our 2 storey house and are looking to buy a single storey house in the hope I will benefit from not using stairs regularly. I am putting more strain on my left knee and in turn it is getting more painful.

I have seen another, highly recommended, specialist who says he could have a look at it but has made it clear that there is a good chance that he won't be able to improve it. I have also looked into stem cell therapy but at almost 10 thousand dollars it is a lot of money to spend on something that has no scientifically proven results that I am aware of.

No more bushwalking for me.

Jeez, that sounds pretty crap.

Have you found another hobby/activity, that interests you as much?

Are u still able to do some car camping. I know its not the same but at least it will get u out in the wild a bit.

Feel for you tex, it's a life changing event that's for sure.
I'm having similar issues with my back.
Hits home the hardest when I can't lift my youngster out of his evening bath, just before bedtime.

One door may be closing but another will open...good luck for the future, tex.



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Sorry to hear. It's something that always is of concern, and one of the reasons I have lightened my load.

Knee replacement?

I have recently bought a motorbike after not having one for many years so that has a bit of my interest.
I definitely still do some car camping when time allows.
Thanks ofuros.
I'm told that I am too young for a replacement. If they did it now it would be worn out by the time I'm 50 (I'm 37 now) and i'd be in a wheelchair at 60.

Iv'e been through similar recently mate, not hereditary in my case, wear and tear. Chronic for many years until a piece of the meniscus dislodged and wack- it was like a sledge hammer to the knee cap. Couldn't walk on more than hop with the inside of that big toe. Back to pack carrying after the operations but not ideal and had a few reminders since... including from the other knee.

Opinions are cheap and varied, try a third?

then again Motorbikes are fun too

Best of luck.

Motorbike camping sounds fun, pack on your back and off you go and with a few friends you could have some fun.
pity your not in Victoria id pick u up and your bike . theres heaps of places near where I live to do Motorbike camping.

Kayaking is a good reprieve from bushwalker's knee. You can overnight near the river.
Depending on where you are some beautiful areas are a flattish walk from the car - such as the bogong high plains, lake country in Tas etc. I had a crook body at one stage and walked to dry's bluff in tassie from great lake (for example)
You don't need to go far or do serious climbing to see some magnificent country.

hope things get better for you. Don't give up on options, its crappy that a replacement is out of the question, since by the time its worn out, we'll have moved leaps and bounds in tech. But keep at them, those guys might be experts, but you live with your knee.

Given the current state of my left knee, I really didn't need to read this. I'm just hoping that medication and proper management will allow me to keep walking for a few more years. Until I've finished the biggies on my hit list, at least . . .

I wonder how you would go cycling. Riding a bike takes about 1/5 of the energy that walking does
so maybe 1/5 the load on the knee is worth a try? Pedaling technique where you pull up with your
good leg would when you push down with the bung leg (needs clipless pedals) would further reduce
the load as well.

Yup kayaking now, it's about the only thing that doesn't need a good knee (appart from motor sports), and you can do it with your family. There's paragliding but the landing would be awful. Birdwatching doesn't necessarily involves a lot of walking. Mostly driving and sitting/waiting. Don't underestimate the values of second medical opinions though, you never know. Also, for cycling, there are those electric bikes that help a lot.

You have my great sympathy Tex and I understand that while some alternatives to bushwalking exist (and canoeing would be my first choice among them), it is still bushwalking that you want to do and hard walks at that and that is what your mind can't seem to let go of and that just makes it all the harder for you but I'm sure that you are no different from anyone else in that respect. And it's also hard to accept because somehow you (speaking here from my own point of view) tend to think that modern medicine should be able to do much better in this day and age! I seriously injured my L foot over a year ago now (any chainsaw users reading this - just take the greatest care with those things!) and it left me with a foot not like it once was and I feel that long walks may now be a thing of the past for me and it's only the hard walks I really seem to mainly care about. It's easy for friends to tell you about people who have famously walked or climbed with disabilities (eg a very steep ice route on Mt Blanc with artificial arms and legs is one case) but they can actually be in a much better situation with regards to mobility than yourself. And the climber in question would probably find extended off track bushwalks a very much harder activity to contend with. In the end, you can only do what is possible, try to look on the bright side and count your blessings. I wish you all the best.

Stay strong tex, that would be some heartbreaking news, as others mentioned not all is lost however.
All the best

Tex wrote:I just thought that I would share my story with you.

After getting back into bush walking in 2012 it soon became my passion. I spent every spare moment planning the next walk and dreaming of longer and harder walks to do in the future.
Not only was I enjoying being fitter and thinner than I had been for many years I was also mentally in a better place than I had been for quite some time
That was until my right knee began getting worse

No more bushwalking for me.

I am with you, Tex. Had been stressed due to work-related issues and resignation from work (after about 24 years). Then went through two major surgeries. Hope things will turn around for you (and for me too).

ofuros wrote:Feel for you tex, it's a life changing event that's for sure.
I'm having similar issues with my back.
Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2

Same here. Have had a crook back, mainly in the upper half of the spine for over twenty years due to factory work during my early settlement in Australia. Mobilization exercises such as recreational activities have been good for me. Sleepless nights coupled with stress have been the worst.

Sorry to hear it Tex. Car camping sounds like a good alternative but I'd warn against motorbikes for the high accident rate. You won't want to further damage that or any of your good joints. They are too precious at your age. Knee replacement will give you a good chance of getting back on the track, but at your (young) age and finite durability, it's probably not advisable until you are completely desperate. Revision joint replacement surgery 10-15 years down the track is no fun.

GPSGuided wrote:Revision joint replacement surgery 10-15 years down the track is no fun.

Doesn't anyone make a serviceable knee replacement joint? Given the relatively short lifespan of these joints, why don't they make them with replaceable bearing surfaces and pads? Removing a 10-20 year old replacement joint from the bone would have to be a nightmare for the patient and the surgeon...

It is a sad story Tex, but one I have heard several times before from bushwalkers no longer able to bushwalk. Doctors all optimistic, "Yes, we can fix this". Result is usually worse than before. A second attempt that is claimed will fix it usually makes no difference. I have only heard of one that actually improved immediately, and that only lasted a few years before the problem recurred.

That's a failure rate of 100%.

Moral of the story is to think very carefully before allowing anyone to touch a knee. Then decide not to.

photohiker wrote:Doesn't anyone make a serviceable knee replacement joint? Given the relatively short lifespan of these joints, why don't they make them with replaceable bearing surfaces and pads? Removing a 10-20 year old replacement joint from the bone would have to be a nightmare for the patient and the surgeon...

The problem is not the joint but the bone it is set into. It is not intended to have a metal thing stuck down the middle of it, and the structure is not strong enough.

I don't know about knees, but hips used to last about 15 years. They could do it again, and you would get another 15 years, but after that, there was not enough bone left to do it again. That's why they do not want to do hip replacements for people younger than about 50.

I think the technology is getting better though.

Sure, I understand that, and my point is that if the bearing surfaces were replaceable then the metal thing would not have to be ripped out of the bone when the artificial joint wears out.

Thing is, with knees it's most commonly the cartilage and ligaments that pack it in, not the bone itself. You'd think there'd be some sort of artificial replacement that would be workable.

A couple of mates of mine had knee replacements in their mid 20s. They are both now back to bushwalking, playing footy, etc. Definitely seek a second opinion.

photohiker wrote:Doesn't anyone make a serviceable knee replacement joint? Given the relatively short lifespan of these joints, why don't they make them with replaceable bearing surfaces and pads? Removing a 10-20 year old replacement joint from the bone would have to be a nightmare for the patient and the surgeon...

There "are". The problem is, there's wear on all interfaces. So not only do the joint surfaces wear, any modular contact points would also wear. After 10 years, it's pretty worthless to try to just replace individual components. One could build the prosthesis even more durable, but then it becomes impractical in size and weight. Then there's the bone interface issue that has already been talked about. These major joint operations are not without risks and the risk increases dramatically with revision surgery. First revision is doable, second revision gets to be a real big deal. Don't want to go further. The irony of all this is, at some point, it's easier for an amputee with a leg prosthesis to go out walking than one who is waiting or on a joint replacement.

north-north-west wrote:Thing is, with knees it's most commonly the cartilage and ligaments that pack it in, not the bone itself. You'd think there'd be some sort of artificial replacement that would be workable.

It's a testament on how durable our own body parts are. No artificial prosthesis design/material to date can match or better what we originally came with. Quite frankly, our body is an extremely hostile durability tester.

Thanks for all of your replies
We did buy a sit on top kyak at xmas time and did a few little day trips in it. I took our 3 y.o. son out and paddled along with some dolphins. Pretty sure I was more excited than him The only negative of it is that just getting to some water takes up a fair bit of time but I would like to do some over night paddles on the Murray.
I am yet to try cycling but I do intend to give it a go especially now the kids are off of their training wheels. In Adelaide you can hire bikes for free so I will get one and have a try.

Strider wrote:A couple of mates of mine had knee replacements in their mid 20s. They are both now back to bushwalking, playing footy, etc. Definitely seek a second opinion.

I am very surprised by this. Not only such a young age but also that they would go back to playing high impact sports which seems to be always advised against.

Strider wrote:A couple of mates of mine had knee replacements in their mid 20s. They are both now back to bushwalking, playing footy, etc. Definitely seek a second opinion.

Sure they had a TKR (Total Knee Replacement)? There are various degrees of partial replacement and many people just drop it in the same basket. If they had a real implant and is abusing it (happens), then I wish them well in their middle age and beyond. They don't know what's coming! Life is a balance b/n 'reward now' vs long term stability.

Tex I'm so sorry to hear your knees are giving you so much grief. Pain that affects someones life on every level is just horrendous and I feel for you. I have a bad knee and ankle on one leg so I can sympathise.

As for the questions regarding the joint replacement and whether you can simply interchange their surfaces etc it is unfortunately not the prosthesis that usually gives way. Sadly it is usually the bone surrounding it. The 'norm' here in Australia (and certainly in a fit younger patient) is to go with whats called a press fit prosthesis first ie the bone is trimmed and a hole made in the bone and the prosthesis is hammered into place. It is the rough surface of the prosethesis that allows it to stay in place (obviously there is a lot more to it but this is the simplified version lol). Unfortunately what then happens over time is this can either loosen or also because you have changed the mechanics of the joint and the forces through it (plus the body doesn't like having foreign objects in it), the bone around the prosthesis starts to deteriorate and can become quite osteoporotic. Once a press fit system starts to fail they may be able to go for another with a bigger press fit (in a bigger hole if the bone quality is good enough). Beyond that they will likely need to go for a cemented prosthesis which if that ever needs to come out requires a lot of bone remodeling etc. So as a generalisation most press fits last upwards of 10 years (though some get 20+). Cemented stems often last a little longer so all things going well you could be fine with a press fit (or two) first then a cemented. The problem is if all fail very early on then as a younger man you have problems (ie your wheelchair scenario you were given plus there is no guarantee that you'll be pain free). So id definitely consider a 3rd opinion (if in Sydney Dr Leo Pinczewski has an amazing reputation) and exhaust all non invasive therapy options.

Tex wrote:

Strider wrote:A couple of mates of mine had knee replacements in their mid 20s. They are both now back to bushwalking, playing footy, etc. Definitely seek a second opinion.

I am very surprised by this. Not only such a young age but also that they would go back to playing high impact sports which seems to be always advised against.

Me too. How old are they now? Joint replacement in your 20's sounds pretty extreme.