Bushwalk Australia

Something that's been on my mind for a long time is the idea of doing a first aid course. Something like getting my St John's certificate.
But, because of my interest in bushwalking, along with my involvement on this forum, I have been considering approaching St John's to see whether they would be interested in customizing a first aid course that would cover the certificate, and also paying emphasis to the issues that are most likely to face the average bushwalker.

To get an idea of what injuries occur in the bush, I thought I would start a topic on it.
I could then collate the info and take it to St Johns so they have up to date info on the type of first aid training they might be able to give us, see if they can customize a course, and then see how many people would need to attend, and at what cost, to make the whole thing worthwhile.

So, let's start by opening the discussion on two fronts -
(A) What injuries have you faced or heard about by bushwalkers?
(B) Would you be interested in putting your name down for a first aid course? If so, what's your nearest city?


To get the ball rolling, injuries I have heard of...
A broken arm, by a walker who fell off a rock
A busted face, bleeding and possibly was a broken nose there too (I remember a photo of it on this forum somewhere) by a walker going face down on a boulder field
A broken leg
A lacerated finger
A finger that bent back the wrong way
Swollen knees
Burns from stove accidents
Splinters
Cuts
Bruises
Stick or branch flicked in the eye
Leech bites
Jack Jumper bites
European Wasp bites
Hypothermia
Salt deprivation (I forget the name of the condition)
Blisters
Frostbite
Sunburn

Some of this sounds pretty simple, such as splinters and leech bites. But they are all issues that we have to deal with when in the bush, so the most minor of ailments can be added to the list.

And yes I am interested in a first aid course, and my nearest city is Devonport.

Injuries I've first-hand witnessed or had:

Rashes
Scrapes
Dehydration
Hypothermia
Asthma (exercise-induced and chronic)
13 Wasp stings to the face
Leeches
Ticks
2 seriously burned feet (on the same person, not me thank goodness)
Blown knee (mine)
Anaphylactic shock (to bee sting- I was only along for the ride, not responsible for F.Aid)
Blisters
and last but not least- head trauma resulting in death (not me in charge that time either, I was only a kid)

I just did a First Aid Cert II course last month.

Good idea Adam,
I did a bronze medallion years back, but can barely remember the basics.
I've ofter thought of a refresher course and one tailored to my favorite past-time even better.

I'm constantly picturing skewering an inner thigh with a small branch and severe gastro, I have no spleen, therefore low immunity and therefore 'a bit' of gastro can be life threatening .

So. yes, I'm interested and I'm in Hobart but would travel if necessary for a 1 or 2 day course.

Adam,
This a good idea the basic course can be done in one day however the Workplace First Aid Level 2 "Provide First Aid" requires two full days and they are normally run on weekdays which may be a problem unless you can organize it for a weekend.
I have a level 2 so dont need this however it may well suit our members who know very little (at my age I always make sure that one of my co walkers knows CPR) so expanded knowledge of Forum members will be good.
Add to the injuries Torn Hamstring" me "on the same weekend JC broke an arm and rib doing research on the OLT he took the chopper I walked out albeit rather slowly down Reedy Lake track

I can't add to the list of injuries but I think this topic is an excellent idea and I'd sign up to such a first aid course. It might also help me think about what I really do need in my first aid kit rather than just the stock stuff I carry now. I'm in Launceston.

From memory of the course I did ages ago, it focussed mainly on CPR and broken bones.

My level II Cert only took one day, as the class was very small and the lecturer really went right through the material at a break-neck pace (pun partially intended). I'm happy enough with it though. It's supposed to be a two-day course though.

Sprained ankles.
Yeah, I need to refresh, particularly on the more 'difficult' things like CPR, and shock etc. Devonport
Good idea Adam

I took my two-day turned into one day course at Devonport, so it might be a good place to do it. Two thumbs up for the company that does it there, but try to get him to show you the burns video after lunch, not before it.

Have a look for "remote" first aid training.
I believe St John’s offer it, and also the Wilderness Medical institute.
http://www.equip.com.au/wmi/courses/Default.asp
I did the two day WMI course, and was the best first aid course I have been to.

I would be interested as well, I've got my Workplace Level 2 but it runs out next May. I did it with a bloke called Haines, I think, and his company (or whatever it is) is Australian First Aid. He was very good. It would be useful to know what the minimum requirements for a 1st Aid kit are as well, and have the course specific for bushwalking.

The standard St Johns two day senior first aid course covers any injury you are likely to come across in the bush. From what I have seen of the curriculum I dont think the remote area course covers anything new in actual treatment but spends an extra day concentrateing on longer term casualty management. Shelter, calling assistance, following medical directions given via radio etc.

Thanks Lindsay. That stuff would potentially be useful - I would think that first aid treatment within fairly quick ambulance reach would be a bit different from the treatment of someone where help is several hours off. I seem to remember less emphasis on stuff like immobilising an injury with the course I did recently than the one I did 20 years ago, and that sort of thing would also be useful - if you could immobilise a broken arm well enough for someone to be able to move around without being in screaming agony, it would make everyone's life much easier. I know that correct strapping of a badly sprained ankle can make it possible to walk on it.

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I read this but i'm not sure i would agree. We spent two days there (St J's)....., same as the first one i did many years ago...
and it needs renewing every year (or two)...

The course does seem to focus more on immediate care but where it lacks detail it does cover a larger range of practical scenarios. I have talked to people who have attended the remote course and it sounds quite comprehensive also.... (?)

(One aspect of the course that wasn't originally included was the scenario of a bomb blast , hopefully never encountered in the wilds but probably close(with imagination) to a stove explosion as far as treatment goes)

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I think it might be 1 day per year, 2 days if renewed every 2 or more years....
Without other needs i'd imagine going to a 2 day course every few years would be enough to keep 'the average bushwalker' up to speed..

I agree, it has become an 'industry' i'd suspect that the annual requirement is as much about supporting the industry as it is about updating knowledge?

Hi All, I've just dug out my St Johns certificate that states it is valid for 3 years. At that time a 1 day recertification is required, valid for another 3 years. St Johns seems to be the benchmark for first aid training however other organisations seem to be jumping on the bandwagon over the last few years, no doubt driven by our OH+S preoccuped society. (Not necessarily a bad thing, but sometimes it does get out of hand)

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I have a feeling this is getting into another topic but...

Thinking i may not need a renewal I rang St. Johns.
The L11 course expires every 3 yrs, the CPR module expires each year. This can be done as a module on its own or a full day course will update the full L11 course content.
They will organise and tailor to suit a course for any group of ten, this can be done at your 'workplace' ....
The public courses (here) are full till Feb/March

I just did the Red Cross Workplace L2 - you're right, the emphasis is on keeping someone alive until the ambulance can get there, but not too much on minor injuries. They also offer a one day remote area course, but you have to do WP L2 as a prerequisite. As Lindsay says, it doesn't cover anything new, but concentrates on longer term management - things like hydration etc.

Hobart Walking Club does a weekend training session, usually in May, on really basic first aid in the bush - its not an "official" course, but I've gone to it a few times and picked up quite a few helpful hints (and did a fun exercise of building a stretcher out of what we had in our pack or could find in the woods!)

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Yeah I'd be interested, mine is way out of date.

I think tasadam has a come up with a great idea/proposal for anyone who can invest the time.

I completed the St John Remote Area First Aid Certificate two years ago in Sydney. This was a four day format run over two consecutive weekends. So it required a significant time commitment, 8am to 5pm each day plus travel. Cost was about $300 (recovered through private health insurance).

The core of the course was based largely around the senior first aid certificate (i.e. Workplace 2). In fact they issue two certificates after you pass, Senior and Remote Area (which is the extended qualification). Certification is for three years, so mine is still current.

I agree with previous comments that the standard courses assume that professional emergency medical attention will be available promptly.

The remote area training provided very specific instruction on how to assess, treat and manage casualties in the bush, potentially for extended periods.

The instructor made sure that the specific circumstances of all course participants were covered. In my group there were two or three other bushwalkers, a family of horse riders doing remote trips in the Victorian high country, a young bloke undertaking a 4WD trip through the Simpson Desert and beyond, and a high altitude mountaineer/professional trekking guide who needed re-certification.

The course was very practical/hands-on and we completed numerous simulated incidents. Typically one or more participants would be briefed in secret to act as casualties. Split into teams, the rest of the group would then attend an "accident scene" and have to determine the cause and then treat the "victims". These exercises had a time limit and were sometimes quite confronting and challenging.

Just a few of the things that were covered and you probably won't find on a standard course:

improvising with whatever you have available - identifying what gear items might be used as splints, bandages etc.

making up a first aid kit specific to your circumstances (e.g. bushwalking, 4WD, sea kayaking)

making a stretcher from two rucksacks and two hiking poles (we carried a 90kg bloke several times using this method)

assessing the possible causes of injury to an unconscious casualty "discovered" in a remote bush location

assessment/decision making about when to evacuate (a continuing theme throughout the course)
if a casualty can be walked out that is always the best option...but never hesitate to call for emergency evacuation if life threatening (or unsure)

preparing for helicopter evacuation (hint - among other things take off your hat and other loose items and pack them away)

the sobering issue of how to handle a fatality in the bush and then deal with the aftermath

tasadam wrote: So, let's start by opening the discussion on two fronts -
(A) What injuries have you faced or heard about by bushwalkers?

Broken arm
Broken ankle(s)
Head trauma and concussion (someone slipped and hit her head on a rock)
Shock
Swollen knees
More swollen knees
Hypoglycaemia (diabetes)
Quite severe hypothermia
Dehydration
Cuts and Bruises
Leech, Wasp, Bee and Dalek bites
Blisters
more blisters
Blisters on top of old blisters

The list goes on... But if you're spending a lot of time in remote areas where there is lots of inexperienced people (i.e. the Overland track), you come across at least minor and sometimes fairly major issues quite regularly. Almost all of the things listed happened to other people we came across rather than someone out of our group. Quite often they were not even aware that there might be an issue. So first aid training is certainly worth every minute and dollar you invest in it. in many circumstances you may even get your workplace to pay for it. The real issue is that if you know how to recognise and treat signs and symptoms EARLY, you can prevent majorly expensive Rescue exercised later. And it also feels much better knowing that you are prepared to cope with a range of things. I have had to call the helicopter on a few people before and almost all incidents would have been easily preventable if the people involved would have spent just a little bit of time assessing risks and learning how to avoid them.

tasadam wrote: (B) Would you be interested in putting your name down for a first aid course? If so, what's your nearest city?

Definitely a brilliant idea. I personally recently updated all my qualifications. And for the record: All First Aid Courses are valid for 3 years, but CPR training and Oxygen courses only for 1. You can do a quick refresher course before they run out which for CPR only takes one afternoon. For a First Aid refresher I think its one day. Remote Area or Wilderness First Aid courses are definitely good value as almost all scenarios taught in a Level II course end with "call an ambulance / bring to hospital" So its very good to be aware of what you would do beyond just immediate first aid when help may be far away. These courses usually have Level II as a Prerequisite though (although you may find combined ones)

Without trying to offend anyone, but I personally far Prefer the Red Cross over St. Johns as 1st aid providers. I have dealt with both and at least in my opinion, Red Cross are much more professional. There are some excellent Wilderness First Aid courses out there, ususally lasting about a week and involve significant outdoor training. But they are certainly not cheap. Most first aid providers are happy to put on customised courses for specific interest groups, so its worth looking into.

On which bushwalks can I find Daleks? I want to go there (but don't have a TARDIS).

Son of a Beach wrote:On which bushwalks can I find Daleks?

Don't need a TARDIS, all you have to do is to wait until the rift opens. Apparently rubbing a piece of granit over aluminium foil in high-humidity attracts them!

Ah and for those of you who haven't done a 1st aid course for a while, pressure immobilisation and ice packs are the recommended treatment for Daleks - but don't give fluids and be prepared for CPR and shock treatment. All you can do really is wait for the Doctor...

A reminder to all who have a First Aid Certificate at what ever level it us just that a bit of paper and at level two a card however they are just that bits of paper or plastic that say you have done a course no use if if you cannot perform when required.
My question is what real trauma have you or do you think you could handle,mine was a decapitation as the result of a car crash (Senior Scout First Aid Badge qualification) so rushed to help, jees I was sixteen and did not expect to find that (don't mention that in training) the Driver was hurt but not really seriously and did not need even a Band aid for bleeding just soft tissue and bruising and shock, it was the Concrete Lamp standard that was crashed into at speed in an open top car that caused the damage and I can tell you first aid kit was not much use to his passenger .
So just remember you are not a Medico just someone with a bit of training to aid/keep alive before real help arrives .
corvus

It has taken me well 25 years to relate this story and I wonder if I should have brought back those nightmares

tomberli wrote:Without trying to offend anyone, but I personally far Prefer the Red Cross over St. Johns as 1st aid providers. I have dealt with both and at least in my opinion, Red Cross are much more professional.

Just curious. What did you find less professional about St John? My own experience with them has been that they are very professional, and especially pragmatic in the case of remote area training. But I haven't used another provider so have nothing to compare them with.

Corvus wrote:A reminder to all who have a First Aid Certificate at what ever level it us just that a bit of paper and at level two a card however they are just that bits of paper or plastic that say you have done a course no use if if you cannot perform when required...
...So just remember you are not a Medico just someone with a bit of training to aid/keep alive before real help arrives

Yes, agreed - all good points. My greatest worry is how much I've forgotten, like anything if you aren't practising it regularly. I can only hope that in a real crisis the long term memory kicks in. I guess this is the main reason for re-certification every so often.

Corvus wrote:My question is what real trauma have you or do you think you could handle,mine was a decapitation as the result of a car crash (Senior Scout First Aid Badge qualification) so rushed to help, jees I was sixteen and did not expect to find that (don't mention that in training) the Driver was hurt but not really seriously and did not need even a Band aid for bleeding just soft tissue and bruising and shock, it was the Concrete Lamp standard that was crashed into at speed in an open top car that caused the damage and I can tell you first aid kit was not much use to his passenger.

I doubt any of us would cope well with that. Sorry you had such a horrific experience and at such a young age.

Likewise, I thought St Johns were excellent (but also have nothing else to compare with).

I've had a PM for a forum member who is also a first aid trainer and may be available to organise and run a course for us. Possibly multiple courses in multiple locations (at least Devonport and Launceston). So continue to watch this topic for further information.

Edit: The person who's in discussions with Adam and I is neither St John's nor Red Cross.

St Johns is fine. So long as there is some flexibility in the content (especially so with a tailored course) it will depend on the person doing the training more than anything as to quality. Iv'e used several different providers here and interstate (as well as starting my working life in the 'industry') and its been the same with all. Never really had a 'bad' course or trainer that I remember.