Bushwalk Australia

Hey there
I've just finished an 8 day walk in New Zealand with two friends. Towards the end of the walk we were faced with a river crossing that created some internal group debate (in fact we sat on the bank for 20 minutes in discussion). The river was flowing fast and cold - all up about an 8 metre wide crossing. The stones weren't slippery but uneven ankle twisters - the height of the water at your thigh. We chose a section that was wide and straight to cross at.

The debate centred on the following:
-should we unbuckle pack waist belts, link arms and go across together in a line OR
-unbuckle pack waist belts and go solo with the aid of our walking poles.

Which style is more stable and safer? We ended up all going solo (and getting across) but it was tricky to keep your balance with the water current (particularly for our 60kg member). Has anyone used the linking arms approach?

The NZ info is the best - eg search -

http://www.fmc.org.nz/

Their fmc bulletins often have articles about safety. They can be downloaded from the site.

I think the current view is - undo chest straps, keep waist straps done up, link arms at shoulders with strongest walker upstream, second strongest downstream, weakest in the middle. Perhaps the people at the ends could also use sticks or poles?

Dave

Thanks Dave for the link.

The linked arm approach will be considered for the next river crossing that looks a bit nasty.

Interesting about the current opinion being that the waist strap should be done up - I guess ideas change over time (perhaps i should update my Paddy Pallin Handbook of Australian Bushcraft printed in 1948 - given to me by my old Dad!).

Kokoda had a few hairy water crossings. In my opinion one should always undo all buckles. For the reason that if you fall in or over or down into the current, you need to be able to get the pack off ASAP.

As for that situation in NZ, I'd pair up and have two people to one pack (thus crossing three times in total). And have a warm fire going at the other side :D

i agree - not much point leaving your waist strap done up - i have lost my footing in just knee high fast moving water and i would NOT have wanted my pack straps to *&^%$#! around with more than i had to when you suddenly get dumped in freezin cold water and the odd rock to bounce into... and i was using a pole to help cross...
that said 99% of the time you're fine.... just no one plans to have the 1% surprise
I loosen the shoulder straps and undo the waist and chest straps- if i wear the pack... depends what you're dealing with... fast slow short deep cold etc... I generally only wear the pack if the water is lower than waist height, or fairly still / slow.

Hi LAMEA_Gals,

I had the same issue, needing to train students to current standards, and bought the safety video off the NZ Mountain Safety Council.

Correct method is to keep waist straps done up if the quick release buckle works well, waist straps undone otherwise, shoulder straps loose, and basically link together holding the off strap of your partner's packs with your arm crossing over their back - ie: your right arm holding the right strap of one partner's pack, your left arm holding the left shoulder strap of the person on the left side - one massive chain of people with hips held together and two arms crossing each person's back, where each are supporting ever [aside - I used to play rugby as a second rower, and it's basically scrum grip, but holding onto the waist strap/shoulder strap instead. If the waist strap is undone, then you have to grab the waistband of the other person's pants.

There was a picture posted here about 6 weeks ago - a search should bring up a link, but I'm a little busy now. Will try and find it later.

There's a lot you need to know - I'd recommend the video or the NZ bushcraft safety manual.

Cheers,

eddie

Wow. I wouldn't have thought that to be the way for the reason mentioned before. I can just imagine some punk infront of me slipping and pulling me down.

http://www.mountainsafety.org.nz/Safety ... ossing.asp
http://www.wildwalks.co.nz/river-crossing/

The links above is what I could find from googling (not necessarily the most credible source). One website agrees with you and one doesn't. Still I rather trust you, as you're trained in the current NZ Mountain Safety Standards, rather than some website. Let us know when you find the pic.

Cocksy_86 wrote:Wow. I wouldn't have thought that to be the way for the reason mentioned before. I can just imagine some punk infront of me slipping and pulling me down.

http://www.mountainsafety.org.nz/Safety ... ossing.asp

Still I rather trust you, as you're trained in the current NZ Mountain Safety Standards, rather than some website. Let us know when you find the pic.

Hi Cocksy,

I bought the training videos and manuals, but haven't been trained myself, ie: attended a course. More just saying that I had to do in-depth, up-to-date, research than being trained, just to clarify. I don't want to put myself there out as the expert because I'm not.

Rationale is the same as if you're packing in a scrum. If you're bound tightly, then if the person next to you slips, you support them. There's two people holding you up, so you've got support from both sides. Strongest swimmers at the head and tail of the line. Waiststrap stays done up because your pack is the flotation device, if you've got a foam sleeping roll on the outside of your pack, this needs to be transferred to the top of your pack, not down low, or else your bum gets most of the flotation and your head goes under(in my case, this happens naturally.)

TO CLARIFY something else (and I'll pop back up and edit the other post too,) the waist strap only stays done up IF the quick release buckle works well. If the waist strap needs a fair bit of fiddling about, leave it UNDONE and grab tightly onto the waistband of the person's trousers. If they slip, then it's one almighty atomic wedgie, but they're still upright.

As I said, the Mountain Safety Council have a training video that's worthwhile. THere's **alot** more to know than this simple part. I'd be doing a disservice if I was to say that it was simple. LInk's in the above email. I'd strongly recommend the video for training purposes/novices. Shows a lot of tricks and important survival skills and techniques - eg: how to attract the attention of a rescue helicopter in dense scrub.

It's a pity that they charge NZD30 postage, or else they'd be selling a lot more.

CHeers,

eddie

The theory behind the waist belt being done up (as I understand it ) is that it takes the bulk of the pack weight making it easier to get the shoulderstraps free from your shoulders without the pack weight.... I still don't agree with this completely. Current best practise does not mean perfect in all situations etc. I find that once in the drink the water lifts your pack anyway if it is well waterproofed and you have one more strap to get off - but each to their own and it wqould depend on the individual situation - if it is really cold water your hands dont work as well as usual and clips can be difficult that you normally have no problem with....

They discuss this in Backpacking Light forum.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... ad_id=3342

Some interesting points. Never knew that about static rope in water.