Ultralight 4 season/snow tent - choices? Advice?

[Stew63]

Well sort of continuing on and expanding from the 'Downsizing the Scarp1' thread - which seems more aligned towards lightweight bike touring and/or light 3 season use. This thread is specifically for 4 season/snow capability and experience with ultralight winter mid tents.

Time has come to completely overhaul and rationalise my gear and I'm looking for an ultralight tent that will cope with harsh 4 season alpine use. I've had heavy, bombproof snow tents already but I want something that is super light yet strong - read cuben fibre.
I've basically narrowed it down to the:
1/. Locus Khufu CTF3-B (B = fully 'bonded' cuben fibre - no seams!) or the larger Khafra.
2/. HMG UltaMid 2 or the larger UltaMid4
3/. MLD DuoMid XL or the larger SuperMid 9x9
NB#1. I've discounted the ZPack shelters as their 'flatish' profiles look like they wouldn't take much of a snow loading compared to the above options.
NB#2. Will probably purchase an inner (later) which is where the LocusGear shine with their many and varied footprint options.
NB#3 The Khufu is the only mid that has an option of seamless - fully bonded cubenfibre CTF3-B (and soon the Khafu too)

The tent is to be for 4 seasons use and after major gear rationalisation - will become my only tent. My main dilemma is should I go the 2 person or 4person tent? I will be using it 80% of the time solo and 20% 2 persons. I am 6ft tall and don't want to be rubbing the sides of the tent. A 4 person would be much more comfortable if snowed in a blizzard or is it just overkill? The weight of the 4person tents are only about ~100gram more but much roomier for 2. It's a real shame that there's nowhere in Melbourne to see these tents in person to gauge the tents rather than just pictures online. Locus offer the option of black cubenfibre which looks great but perhaps too hot for summer? On a drearyday/blizzard though - perhaps the white would let the light shine through and brighten up the tent inside somewhat. Ideally owning both a ultralight 2person AND an ultralight 4person CF would be perfect but at the price of cubenfibre this ain't going to happen and also defeats the whole purpose of my gear rationalisation.

Yes - I realise that these very lightweight (but strong) mids with their lower comfort levels than say a double skin etc. (which are also able to withstand a nuclear attack) may not suit most for snow touring/camping in Australia they seem to work well in blizzards in other parts of the world.

Sorry for thinking out aloud - I want to order soon although it'll probably be too late for mid winter use now.

[Moondog55]

Experience tells me that if the weather really closes in bigger is always better in bad weather.
If extra guy points are possible get them, you may not need them but if you do you really do.
I'd say get the 4 person, I never ever found my Megamid too large for my solo travels, and 2700 * 2700 sounds perfect
Snow you learn to keep brushing off and shovelling away [ NB a shovel is important] and being able to withstand the wind is IMO much more important; this means paying great attention to pole strength and guy attachment strength
Can you order extra top venting with any of these tents>? Can you order a beak?
A small beak and dual zip ends make a huge difference in pouring rain
I use this forum for thinking out loud all the time; it really helps me in my decision making process

[Giddy_up]

MD I'm a HMG addict and I think they make some of the best gear available from cottage manufacturers. Knowing how you camp and what weather extremes you face over a protracted period of time, my recommendation would be the HMG Ultamid 4 for you and if I where you I would talk directly to Mike St Pierre and ask him to design and fit a snow skirt for you. Then the only other consideration for you is a centre pole that is bomb proof. Lashing poles together is ok when on the move but when you have a dedicated base like you do I would get a adjustable alloy pole for use when static.

Colour........to get a black Mid from HMG you would need to request that they build it from CF11. This is almost twice as strong as the material they use in the white Mids and will add a little weight but it won't fail.

The black grey colour isn't dreary and is very comfortable to sleep under.

In bad weather these tent will stand up to just about everything and as you know anchoring your corners on a Mid is key. Lose a corner in high wind and you lose your tent.

PM me if you want more info as these guys have made a couple of tents for me now.


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[Moondog55]

Thanx for that but it isn't me buying the tent
I can't afford a new walking tent I know it's almost a dinosaur but I still trust my Minaret even at 2100Grams

[Stew63]

I didn't even know HMG offered the option of black cuben fibre. Do you think HMG might be open to slight variations in their designs?
I recently emailed ZPacks about some simple and minor variations on one of their ArcHaul packs and was given a straight out and blunt "no". Apparently the ZPack cottage business was now too big with too many on the sewing machines to offer any customisations of any kind in the future.

I really like the idea of seamless, bonded cuben fibre and also 2/3 or 1/2 inners that LocusGear offers in a myriad of colour floors. A new Khafra (4 person mid) seamless option will also be released in October - fully bonded like the Khufu option is now.

[Drew]

I believe Evan at Terra Rosa Gear (in Melbourne) is working on a mid. Might be something you can go and check out to get a sense of size. And I imagine he would customise. Might not be ready as soon as you need though.

[Stew63]

Thanks Drew
I'm not in a hurry and have resigned myself that I won't have any mid for this winter season.
Does Terra Rossa work in cuben black?

[Drew]

Not sure about cuben black. I only know Evan's working on a mid because I was pondering getting one at some stage and asked him if he had any plans to make one. I'm sure if you get in touch he will answer any questions for you.

[Moondog55]

Thanks Drew
I'm not in a hurry and have resigned myself that I won't have any mid for this winter season.
Does Terra Rossa work in cuben black?

Happy to loan you my old dinosaur Megamid to borrow if you need a shelter

[Stew63]

Thanks Drew
I'm not in a hurry and have resigned myself that I won't have any mid for this winter season.
Does Terra Rossa work in cuben black?

Happy to loan you my old dinosaur Megamid to borrow if you need a shelter

Thanks for that kind offer MoonDoggie but I have an old alternative winter tent to use in the mean time. Might see you at 'Basecamp MoonDog' sometime soon!

Contacted Hyperlite Mountain Gear and they (like ZPacks) are no longer open at all to any variations, changes, suggestions or even minor customisations whatsoever in their tents or equipment. Looks like the very attentive and very helpful Jotaru and Yuki from Locus Gear in Japan get my business - you can't beat the Japanese for service that's for sure! From all the reviews I've read their product quality and design are absolutely top notch too. It would appear that both HMG and ZPacks have now just become too big and no longer offer that special and unique cottage industry service to the customer.

Jotaru is going to create a custom fully bonded (seam free) Khafra in black cubenfibre (CTF3-B) with additional upper tie out points to those offered. I'll also purchase a 1/2 mesh inner with custom orange bathtub floor for walking the warmer months with the misses or kids. I just love all the Locus options in outer materials (if CF is outside the budget) and also footprint shape options and colours for the inners - very well thought out.

[Giddy_up]

That sounds perfect Stew63, make sure you post a pic or two when it arrives


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[Stew63]

That sounds perfect Stew63, make sure you post a pic or two when it arrives

Thanks Giddyman. Yeah - I REALLY wanted that HMG UltaMid4 (and a 3400 SW pack) but they just wouldn't listen or budge on any customisations at all no matter how minor - ZPacks were the same with their packs. You must have bought your UltaMid at a good time back in 2014 when HMG was a real cottage industry still listening to and offering a unique service to the customer.

[Giddy_up]

It's such a shame as it was a real pleasure to deal with Mike. I guess it's a sign of their commercial success as they just have to punch out numbers that are demanded by customers now.

As a side note, I've been looking at the Locus Gear and I really don't think that you are taking a step back in any way. The craftsmanship, use of fabric and some little pieces of innovation make their product very attractive. Enjoy it when it comes and see you up the mountains


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[Stew63]

It's such a shame as it was a real pleasure to deal with Mike. I guess it's a sign of their commercial success as they just have to punch out numbers that are demanded by customers now.

As a side note, I've been looking at the Locus Gear and I really don't think that you are taking a step back in any way. The craftsmanship, use of fabric and some little pieces of innovation make their product very attractive. Enjoy it when it comes and see you up the mountains

Giddy - from all the personal reviews I've read the Locus Gear tents appear absolutely top notch in both design and quality and also aftersales service.
The downside of the custom order is I'll have to be patient and wait a little longer...

[earthairfire]

A little late to the party here, but thought I'd chime in as I was recently looking for a tent with similar requirements.

I ended up with a HMG Ultamid 2. I've only taken it on a couple of snow trips so far, but am super impressed with the build quality, and it feels bomb-proof. It's a palace for one person, and easily sleeps 2 with snow gear.

I have both a half and full size custom cuben inner from Bearpaw Designs, so it's super flexible for one person, two, with or without inners depending on the planned location and season.

If you want to save some cash, consider second hand also - backpackinglight forums often have cuben mids for sale, or you could post a wanted ad. Every wanted ad I've placed has had quite a few responses.

Lastly, if you're really keen to see one in the flesh and can be bothered to drive to Northcote, I'd be happy to chuck it up in my garden for you to have a look at, if it helps.

Tim

[philg]

Hi Tim, would you be able to post a photo of your inners?

[Stew63]

For me the lack of any options with the HMG inners, particularly the HMG Mid4 was the deal breaker for me - they only offer full inners. I definitely would have preferred the HMG Mid4 - with a half inner - but that is just not available. Mike St. Pierre at HMG in an email said they may be bringing something out next year. Instead I have ordered and am awaiting the LocusGear Khafra in fully bonded black cuben fibre with a half inner. LG currently offers inners in 1/2, 2/3, 4/5 or full inners with a choice of floor types depending on requirements. The LG shelters are made to order so there is a waiting period of about 6 weeks from time of ordering/payment. BTW I still love the HMG gear though!

[davidf]

I have a mld duo plus innertub/mesh sil in the mail. Not got yet. My choice based on cost, weight not that painfully more than cuben, good reviews. As i have not owned a real tent in 25 years, hootchie or bivy even alpine, this looks the goods for me.

[rcaffin]

There are cheap compromises, which will fail, and there are genuine tunnel tents like the Macpac Olympus and some of the Hilleberg tunnels.

5621S2.jpg (236.24 KiB) Viewed 29933 times

And my MYOG 2-man 4-pole double-skin tunnel which took a 100 kph storm all night on top of Mt Anton on snow without any trouble, but it is not commercially available. It just represents what a tunnel can survive. This photo was taken the day before when the winds were less.
OK, I am biased: I trust a tunnel.
Cheers
Roger

[PedroArvy]

There are cheap compromises, which will fail

Are you saying mids fail? Where? Under what conditions?

[Stew63]

Cheap? An HMG UltaMid4 mid with inner and pole is nudging AUD$2000!
I already have a Hilleberg Saitaris 4 season tent (which I still just love) but seldom sees any use these days as at ~6500grams it is 15times the weight of the 430gm LocusGear cubenfibre, fully bonded mid, which I'm eagerly awaiting delivery of and has been proven in the Japanese Alps in winter. About $1500 with inner and pole - certainly not 'cheap'...

This is the Ultralight section isn't it?

[PedroArvy]

True, ultralight cuben is definitely not cheap. I want to know what Roger means by his statement. It seems he is implying mids are not up to it and as he is very experienced, I'd like to know whether he witnessed a failure or something along those lines.

[Moondog55]

There are cheap compromises, which will fail

Are you saying mids fail? Where? Under what conditions?

Usually the pole
I've lost the centre pole in my Megamid twice, repairing it to be stronger each time but the last time it failed it ripped a big hole in the side of the tent.
Wind of course in my case about 120+ gust, not all that high really