illegal campers on great walks

[wayno]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/ ... -in-danger

[Stroller]

I must admit its very tempting since their booking rules are painful for me. Not to mention the great cost though of course the cost is less of a problem than making bookings.

People want to travel with a degree of freedom about times. When you are on a long trip its really hard to book well in advacne and worse when you are on a bicycle, you need that flexibility. Bookings really add a lot of stress to trips.

They should find a way to accommodate people like us.

[wayno]

you're talking about huts which usually have gas burners in them with free gas. coal stoves with coal airlifted in. electric lighting.... tracks that are largely benched footpaths. a llot of money has gone into maintaining those walks especially tax payers money, go and walk somewhere else if you don't want to pay

[GBW]

you're talking about huts which usually have gas burners in them with free gas. coal stoves with coal airlifted in. electric lighting.... tracks that are largely benched footpaths. a llot of money has gone into maintaining those walks especially tax payers money, go and walk somewhere else if you don't want to pay

OK..I will!

[oldpiscator]

Me too.

[wayno]

Only a third of hut stays nationwide in all huts are paid for. Doc are now looking at how many huts they can get rid of. If log books and ticket payments are low. The hut will be removed. The govt will do anything to cut docs budget. If huts are removed the govt will then cut docs funding.

[sim1oz]

Saw it ourselves. We left Routeburn Falls Hut very early and met someone before we even got to Harris Saddle. I remarked to him as we passed each other that he must really travel fast. We worked out from the vague reply that his camping had probably not been in a permissible area... He would have had to leave Lake Mackenzie in the dark at walking speed, and it was unlikely he was trail running with such a large pack. Much as I have realised I am not a big fan of walking lockstep to pre-booked accommodation, I did think the huts on Routeburn and Kepler were pretty amazing and worth paying for so that DOC has additional funding. It would be a shame to have NZ huts become dilapidated and/or removed.

[wayno]

i've seen illegal campers expecting to dump a big bag of rubbish at the hut, you have to pack out all your rubbish, so they did and dumped the rubbish at some toilets instead where theres no rubbish bins to avoid encouraging people from overloading rubbish bins. nz has developed a reputation that has got around that you can freeload staying at the huts and that extends to camping on the great walks and ignoring any required fees... there will be huts removed, time will tell how many.... I expect there will be a lot. doc developed a high standard for huts after the cave creek viewing platform collapsed, the policy since has been maintain all their structures at a high level or remove them, they have disabled bridges that were still useable at dangerous river crossings... they've tried in the past just to rip huts out because they wanted too which gathered a lot of protest, this time they claim a mandate to remove huts and i dont think protest will help, theres already a lot of huts that are only there because of a lot of work from volunteer groups, hundreds of huts...

[icefest]

Saw it ourselves. We left Routeburn Falls Hut very early and met someone before we even got to Harris Saddle. I remarked to him as we passed each other that he must really travel fast. We worked out from the vague reply that his camping had probably not been in a permissible area... He would have had to leave Lake Mackenzie in the dark at walking speed, and it was unlikely he was trail running with such a large pack. Much as I have realised I am not a big fan of walking lockstep to pre-booked accommodation, I did think the huts on Routeburn and Kepler were pretty amazing and worth paying for so that DOC has additional funding. It would be a shame to have NZ huts become dilapidated and/or removed.

As far as I know you are allowed to bush camp on great walks as long as you are greater than 500m from the trail. He could have been doing nothing wrong.

I know I walked along part of the routeburn when I did the 5 passes (plus north col) and didn't stay at a hut and did nothing wrong - the hut was both booked out and didn't fit our itinerary.

[PedroArvy]

Fine them $1000 or kick them out of the country.
Society is getting too soft.

[wayno]

usually if you see them in that part of the track early in the day, its illegal camping. about the only place you can easily legally camp is up the northern branch of the routeburn river. everywhere else the terrain is rough and it involves a big steep descent and or bush bash through jungle to get 500m from the track, the only people who tend to do that arent actually doing the full track and just use part of it to spring board somewhere else.

[sim1oz]

@icefest, you are right about the 500m rule. I didn't fully quote the guy - it was pretty clear that he was camping illegally from what he said, backed up by the sheepish grin.

@wayno, we were on the track by 7.15am (after being woken up at 5.45 by a whole bunch of school kids' phone alarms going off), which was why I was so surprised to see someone coming in the opposite direction so soon. We saw plenty of trail runners during our Routeburn tramp but they were always at a time which made sense, based on their starting point and where we met them. Lots of people in training on the Kepler as well.

Not really sure what the solution is. There will always be people trying to get around the rules.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Amen Pedro.

We live in a society of people who want everything for free, who won't take any responsibility for themselves, and who'd rather sit back and criticise than get involved thenselves and try to make a difference. Those doing the right thing and paying the fees are subsidising facilities for the cheats.

A $1000 on the spot fine would have this fixed in a month.

[wayno]

a lot of day walkers and campers will come in and use the free gas cookers at the huts that they havent paid for, i pointed out to one day walker she wasnt allowed to use the gas . "oh well, i've started now, i might as well finish" a well spoken pleasant lady who was happy to essentially steal. DOC should put up signs that you will be prosecuted if you are cooking at the hut and cant show a hut pass

[photohiker]

Why don't they just install a token system, or even a credit card access system.

People who have booked and paid, use a token or registered credit card to get access. Those with no bookings have to use a credit card and get a solid but not outrageous charge.

The problem is people want to use the huts and cookers but they have no booking. Take their money.

[Lizzy]

Interesting to see most people are for charging people in NZ and sticking to rules but seem unhappy about say the 3 Capes Track charges and limitations.....

[wayno]

a great walk in NZ costs $100 to $150 in huts $250 for the milford track which includes two boat rides,, one of them a lengthy one, three capes is $500 and i dont think they have gas in the huts.. or you can canp on most of the geat walks for a lot less...

DOC have been caught out by the fast increasing popularity of the great walks.. routeburn flats hut was over run with day hikers, they eventually added a shelter onto it to ease the pressure on the hut. are going to announce some new charging system some time in april, whether its just for the great walks or more of their facilities isnt known... kids are free on great walks , a lot of overseas schools and youth groups are getting an absolute bargain, booking out teh great walks for zero return.. so that loophle will probably be closed. and possibly other payments brought in targeting overseas visitors. the no of foreign tourists is sky rocketing, there's a lot of issues with freedom campers as well leaving messes and putting a lot of pressure on small towns. chch has just closed down all their free campsites indefinitely due to too many issues around the messes caused by a lot of them.

[RonK]

Interesting to see most people are for charging people in NZ and sticking to rules but seem unhappy about say the 3 Capes Track charges and limitations.....

Yes, I was thinking the same. I'm sure they'll be able to rationalise it though.

[photohiker]

No need to rationalize it. The NZ walks are popular, challenging and completely different to the three capes walk.

You pay for access to go on the NZ walks and you get much more for your money. If you sneak in, it would make sense to charge the cheats who want to access the facilities without paying.

There is access for three capes for normal walkers. Definitely a different setup to the NZ Doc walks.

[jdeks]

I dunno how I feel about this...


On one hand, I do definitely get the conservation sentiment. A lot of time, resource and money has gone into making some excellent, sustainable and civilized walks. Certainly not wrong to expect something back from the users, even if it's just compliance with some 'terms of use'.

But on the other had, I know I personally really get the *&^%$#@! with being hemmed into paying to play a game I didn't even sign up for. Want to go hiking to get away from civilization? Perfectly capable of pitching a safe and responsible camp on your own? Too bad - we built all these huts for you anyway. Now pay for them and be grateful! Or 'go hike somewhere else'

Except that's becoming harder too. For years, the Hotham-Falls Creek high plains have been my winter stomping ground, specifically because all thats up there are a few dirt paths and the odd old hut. Now Parks Vic want to do us all a favor we never asked for, and turn the thing into the Glamping highlight of the Snowies. Awesome - So now either pay extra to camp where I always used to, for the sake 'maintaining' things I neverwanted, or get labelled a criminal for trying to do what I've always done.

All well and good to say 'well, just go camp 500m away from the sites' - but it's no coincidence the paid sites always end up dominating all the areas with water, shelter and flat ground. This isn't the local caravan park - finding another spot usually isn't just a case of wandering to the other side of the field.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

That's a pretty long bow to draw. I wasn't advocating for or against charging or not charging people - either in Tas or NZ. That's a completely separate argument.

What I'm for is people not breaking the rules, nor scabbing off people who do the right thing. Perhaps if everyone was doing the right thing, the prices in NZ might be halved.

Wayno - good on you for calling her out. I'd have turned off her gas.

[wayno]

great walks make up a tiny percentage of tramps in nz, theres no shortage of other places to go. so its just ridiculous how so many people walk the great walks and pay nothing when they could do it legitimately through most of the DOC estate. its called having your cake and eating it. theres no shortage of great scenery, the great walks don't have a monopoly on the best scenery in NZ.
for all the tramping i've done in NZ , i still often barely know where to start for my next tramp, there are infinite options still left..

the huts were paid for with NZ taxpayers money.... NZers have funded them, they cost money to maintain, someone coming from overseas wanting to pay nothing is a double insult, they've never contributed anything
NZers get resentful because they paid for the tracks and huts to a reasonable extent through taxes and pay again, overseas people have no grounds for complaint, they are truly getting something for nothing if they don't pay...

yeah i was thinking about turning off her gas, but the whole concept was just lost on her when i told her, would have been a wasted effort.

[Lizzy]

Don't get me wrong- I think the NZ hut system is great and have done quite a number of the Great Walks (the Routeburn a few times) and am happy to pay for use of the facilities. I just find it intriguing that most people don't seem to want to pay for use of facilities in Tassie- fair enough if you don't use them, but if you want to sit in the hut and cook or sleep I think it is fair to pay. Actually it's suprising they don't have hut tickets for walks like Frenchmans.....

[wayno]

all the sewerage from the great walks gets helicoptered out... the money needs to come from somewhere to pay for that why should the tax payer pay to fly out someone elses sewerage...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/7656 ... the-Kepler

[RonK]

the huts were paid for with NZ taxpayers money.... NZers have funded them, they cost money to maintain, someone coming from overseas wanting to pay nothing is a double insult, they've never contributed anything.

Exactly - unless you are a NZ citizen you have contributed nothing. Using these facilities without paying is the same as stealing.

[DaveNoble]

the huts were paid for with NZ taxpayers money.... NZers have funded them, they cost money to maintain, someone coming from overseas wanting to pay nothing is a double insult, they've never contributed anything.

Exactly - unless you are a NZ citizen you have contributed nothing. Using these facilities without paying is the same as stealing.

I was under the impression that New Zealand had a consumption tax? So visitors to New Zealand that buy stuff or services do in fact pay tax.

Dave

[photohiker]

Don't get me wrong- I think the NZ hut system is great and have done quite a number of the Great Walks (the Routeburn a few times) and am happy to pay for use of the facilities. I just find it intriguing that most people don't seem to want to pay for use of facilities in Tassie- fair enough if you don't use them, but if you want to sit in the hut and cook or sleep I think it is fair to pay. Actually it's suprising they don't have hut tickets for walks like Frenchmans.....

Who said they don't want to pay for facilities? I think the issue in Tassie is that there is plenty of walks with little or no facilities. If you don't need or want facilities, should you have to pay for them if you don't use them? Experienced and self supporting hikers don't like being excluded from previously accessible areas because the area has been changed into a pay for use track. No problem with people paying for a luxury walk with a roof over their heads like the three capes, let them go for it. Should be the same as the Overland - you can pay the fee and walk self supported or pay more and have the luxury of a roof over your head, cooked meal, wine, hot shower and bed. Both groups walk the exact same track, no exclusions.

In Tassie, you are supposed to pay for a pass to walk some of the tracks. Like the Overland and Frenchmans. You have the choice to use the huts if you want, but you have to bring everything you need except for fuel for the heater in the huts. Even that gets abused with people starting the heater when it isn't cold and putting too much fuel in.

There is a hut upgrade on the cards for Tahune, and now that Dick Smith has poured a fortune into the track its quite likely it will become too busy and will need controls during the walking season. If that happens, you just might need a booking and a hut ticket.

[RonK]

No need to rationalize it.

I think you just did.

[wayno]

the huts were paid for with NZ taxpayers money.... NZers have funded them, they cost money to maintain, someone coming from overseas wanting to pay nothing is a double insult, they've never contributed anything.

Exactly - unless you are a NZ citizen you have contributed nothing. Using these facilities without paying is the same as stealing.

I was under the impression that New Zealand had a consumption tax? So visitors to New Zealand that buy stuff or services do in fact pay tax.

Dave

barely any of it gets directed into the DOC estate, DOC are extremely badly underfunded, fifty million taken off their budget an a budget freeze put on them for years. the govt money that set up the hut system and maintenance of the conservation estate can't cope with the far higher visitor no's into the parks today, and a far higher percentage of foreign tourists than there has historically been and that percentage grows every year. a lot of backpackers looking for free accommodation as they sight see head for DOC huts.
thers problems all over nz because taxes arent being directed to cope with higher tourist no's. small towns are having their infrastructure over run and cant provide all the facilities now needed

[photohiker]

No need to rationalize it.

I think you just did.

There is a difference between rationalising it and explaining the difference between the NZ and Tassie walks.

There is the thing, if you don't want to hear an alternative view then why poke around with a stick?