AAWT Planning

[Suz]

Hey all,

Planning has begun for my AAWT hike. Thought I better make my own thread instead of continuing to hijack other people's. Not sure yet if going in Spring or next Autumn - hope El Nino doesn't ruin plans either way! Just wondering if those of you who've completed parts or all of the track could comment on my plans.

My general ethos is to: start easy, do some side trips along the way (as suggested in Chapman) and have the time to take it all in (and go slow enough to allow for navigational errors and losing time to bad weather), stay at some nice campsites, and not overwork my body at any point (cept maybe the last day when I'll probably just want to end).

I ended up with 50 days of walking (incl. zero days), some of days on the trip look really short but include the potential for a side trip or staying at what looks to be a good campsite. So, if you guys can comment on how you found particular parts of the track (side trips, campsites, the finding of water and the finding of the route) - that'll help me to refine my plans. I also realise that I haven't quite understood whereabouts the water tanks are on the Barry n Viking Saddle right now. If someone wants to point them out y'kno…

Also, do you guys recommend the side trips suggested in Chapman? Or have any others you'd add?

[north-north-west]

If the conditions permit, go into Cowombat Flat over the Cobberas. Actually 'if conditions permit' applies to all of this but:
There are variations on the route from Nobs Track Junction. High Cone is worth the climb. So are the Nobs - especially the southern summit which gets relatively few visitors.
If you can find water on the way up Howitt, don't bother with Mac Springs. Good camping, especially if you get to the sites up on the clifftops, but the time and effort can be better used elsewhere. There are alternative sites along the Crosscut, mainly at the Stanleys Name turnoff and on Buggery.
Canyon Rd is not good camping. It's better up on Selwyn.
Murray is only a few km from the hut site and that's all on 4wd tracks. Worth the effort.
If the weather's really bad you can follow the 4WD track around the side of Wongungurra and the Twins rather than over. That's a steep up and down section, but terrific views. There's a water tank on the ridge between Wongungurra and the Twins.
Feathertop. It's popular, with good reason. Stunning walk out along the Razorback. Can be turned into a loop with a descent down Diamantina and a climb up past Westons Hut, or follow the track back along the river to Cobungra Gap.
Jim. Short sidetrip, worth it.
Cope. Also short, but an interesting lump with some great views.
Grey Hills/Quartz Ridge route from Warby Corner is longer but a better and more efficient way to include the Bogong Summit. It also means you don't have to wade the Big River.
Gill Creek is not a brilliant campsite - dark, damp, often leechy. If the weather's a bit iffy try to avoid it. Sunnyside makes for a shorter day (and longer the following one) but a far superior campsite.
The Whitelaw-Thomson leg looks long on paper but (with a brief exception) is mostly road walking. You'll be fine for that and there are campsites en route if the weather fouls up badly.
Taylors to Johnnies Top might be a long haul. Depends on whether the tracks in that area have had any recent work. They're prone to rapid regrowth and major treefalls. But Johnnies to Buenba is an easy leg unless you lose the track.
Cowombat Flat to Tin Mine - there's good camping where the track crosses Tin Mine Creek a km or so before the huts. Better if you want to do the sidetrip to the Pilot - and it's well worth doing.
A wander to the high point of Bobs Ridge is worthwhile. Longer sidetrip for Chimneys Ridge and/or Terrible/Leo/Paddy Rush's. That area doesn't get a lot of visitors, but it's lovely. Plenty of pads to follow but make sure you have a good map.
Dicky Cooper's. Can be done from the Rolling Grounds with a direct descent to the Schlink Hilton (bypassing Whites), or as a sidetrip from Schlink Gap. I've always preferred the direct route.
Give yourself plenty of time to explore Gungartan and Kerries. Lovely area. Mawsons will probably be crowded - for some ungodly reason it seems to be popular. I usually prefer the route from Gungartan to Tin and then north over the Brassies and Bull Peaks, which gets you to Jagungal more directly although you do then bypass Valentines and the Grey Mare. Off-track but plenty of pads.
If you go via Valentines, try to find time for the Ghost, and then use the Falls track. Also get up on to the Grey Mare Range if you can. There's a spring just behind the Grey Mare Hut that has the sweetest water you'll ever drink on the mainland.
Jagungal. If there are 'must do' sidetrip peaks on the AAWT, the Big Jagged One is on the list (Feathertop, Bogong, Townsend, Jagungal & Bimberi are the big five)
Bimberi (see above) and Murray. Bimberi has a track, Murray doesn't.
Cotter Gap to Tharwa is a *&%$#! big day. There are some steep section in that, and you'll miss Booroomba and Tennent.

Sorry, that's not really in order.

[north-north-west]

Tabletop is another shortish sidetrip that more than worth the effort. There's a pair of Wedgies nesting up there.

[Suz]

Wow thanks NNW for the exceptional advice! I will reevaluate based on your suggestions - thanks heaps I may have some Qs later on, I defo want to see wedgies if I can. I may split the final day in two - it is a lot of decent 1600 mtrs - not sure the knees can cope with that anyway. I will revise my plans for a while yet I suppose. Will have a look at splitting the day from Taylors creek to Johnnies top too. Some of the places you mention I don't recognise so will have to do a bit of web surfing.

[walkon]

NNW is spot on with most of that.
I'd camp at red Jacket instead, a few flat km difference heaps better campsite and really good access to the creek, plus more to see around the area.
High cone and Square top DO NOT sidle, actually don't sidle anything on this walk
I love Mac springs so I'm biased there and Vallejo Gantner hut and toilet is worth a look at anyway, I had a rest day there even though I didn't need it .
Sth Selwyn has a water tank on top and is a very pretty place to camp.
Placements of water tanks on the Barry's. Barry saddle tannin stained but good. Barry mountain water tank on top of the hill is stuffed but there's one to replace it a few km north down the hill near the road. Sth Selwyn has a water tank on top of it. On the twins side track on top.
Mount Murray is good, clear views from the top.
Cope hut is better than Wallaces by far.
Bogong Alternate track. Just be careful of weather its really exposed though well worth it.
Big river has a chain across it and isn't hard to cross anyway.
Wills hut is a great place to rest up though I stayed at Sunnyside as I was meeting people unfortunately its not the best campsite with 3 inches of rain though where is?
Gill aka leech creek is a small poor campsite as per NNW
Taylors to Johnnies top is a big day for you though there's nothing else going on to see that day anyway and its always good to blow out those cobb webs with a big day. oh yeah the track is good and a Water tank is on top of johnnies top.
Cobberas easier accessed from the north.
Cowombat flat has murray river source and the border cairn plus pilot is good on the way out.
The falls are good near tin mine hut.
Main range is like Bogong, its the weather that dictates what you will be able to do.
Kerries/Gungartan are a must see.
Jagungal I wasn't going past it, period!
Where the power lines meet Grey Mare trail I'd go offtrack straight to Happy's hut, then up to the firetrail (page 202 chapmans) as that track on the ridgeline would be best avoided as much as possible.
Tabletop is worth it
Four Mile hut doesn't look much but it has good 'crack' my fav hut on the walk, bar Vallejo Gantner, very cute.
Bimberi was well marked, sort of over marked with ribbons everywhere, and is a must see.
Booroomba Rocks were great.
But it all depends on your body/mind as to what will happen at the end. You'll either be a supreme walking machine or a limping wreck. In the end for me it was only lack of daylight that stopped me, the stamina was there to keep going on and on.
Most of the side trips are worth doing and there are tons more camps along the way than are marked. Also as you go note where the bush opens up, as you go you can then read a map and guess as to where the campsites will invariably be. I've missed a lot of things here but my notes are in food drop tins out bush that I'm about to retrieve.
I'm jealous of you doing this even though I haven't been home a week. People think I was joking when I stated that I could have turned around and gone back, if the food was out there there's a fair chance I would have! Its a journey through our beautiful country and a great way to live for a while, I'm proud that I have done it and will do this walk again (S>N in winter are the plans).

[GBW]

Maps:
I wouldn't rely totally on a phone, or a gps for that matter. You should carry larger scale maps in case you need an escape route (1:50k). They are expensive but a small price to pay and I felt a lot safer having them.

I scanned and printed Chapmans book on a quality low gsm paper which reduced its weight by about half plus printouts of the route from my garmin topo in a lower scale. My missus works for a paper company which helps. I distributed these in my food drops.

To be honest, I hardly even used the 1:50k maps during the walk, just studied them at the beginning and end of the day and found Chapmans maps/notes very easy to follow. Just be prepared for heavy fog which makes it all the more interesting and pretty well forces you to use your maps and compass occasionally.

As far as water goes, it's there but you need to go looking for it sometimes eg Low Saddle and down Nobs Tk. I checked a few of Chapmans locations where he said there was water and guess what...it was there.

Itinery:
Have a rough plan but allow for some flexibility for the weather and time to collect water if needed. Do it at your own pace and plan it out that way.

Food drops:
Load them up with goodies and eat heaps. It's like Christmas when you reach them.

Good luck.

[Mark F]

You may want to allow two days for placing and picking up the food drops - it will take you longer than you think and you don't want to driving 14+ hours per day.

Gill Creek is a bit of a hole for camping - pick up some water at the creek and walk a few km onto the ridge and dry camp.

Seeing you are having a zero day at Blue Waterholes I would continue from there to Murray Gap rather than stop at Oldfields. Beautiful camping under the old snow gums and allows a side trip up Bimberi. From there head to Orroral River and have a still longish day to Tharwa.

[Suz]

Thanks guys, I am compiling your comments into my plan for revision. Obviously I need to split the final day up or readjust like MarkF said and will not camp at Gill Creek. Other changes will come too. Will defo allow several days for food drops/collection MarkF. Will take some sort of paper map back up too GBW - thanks - just wondering whether to go the 1:50K or the 1:100K.

Walkon, do you mean to say that it is now okay to camp at red jacket?

I am sort of wondering with the main range area - whether I should be attempting some sort of loop walk? You know, so I can encompass the gungarten / kerries area and then also the grey mare / valentines bit.

Does anyone know of any cheap accom in the Mt Hotham area? Like a backpacker's hostel or something. I've had a look on the web but can't find anything under $140 or so. If I'm going to zero there, that will be mighty expensive. Thredbo has the YHA so that's sweet.

No need to be jealous Walkon, you could complete your Winter walk thru before I even commence mine I think Mutley also said he could've turned back and walked the other way. I guess the trail gets into the blood!

[GBW]

I think they prefer you to camp at Blue Jacket because it's away from the river and you're still in the catchment area. Access to the Jordan River is about 200m and was fine in Jan this year, a few blackberries but OK. Same restrictions apply at Stronachs.

[scoha]

Thanks all for the excellent update notes and recommendations - good call Suz. I am heading N-S in mid-November and will update my plan from these notes. Loved the photos Walkon and followed your progress eagerly and with the anticipation I will follow in your steps in mid November.

Live life.

[north-north-west]

I am sort of wondering with the main range area - whether I should be attempting some sort of loop walk? You know, so I can encompass the gungarten / kerries area and then also the grey mare / valentines bit.

I've gone from Mawsons to Valentines cross country. Not that far and easy going. You pretty well just follow the ridgeline above the river, doing the usual dodge and weave to keep in the open bits.
There's also some lovely camping just over a low spur behind Mawsons. Easy to pick up the line from there to Valentines.

Unless you spend days going in circles you can't cover everything. Do the Grey Mare and you'll miss the Brassies and Bull Peaks. Do the official route and you miss Gungartan & Kerries (and the Brassies and Bull Peaks). Tin, Brassies, Bulls to Jagungal Saddle means you miss Ghost, Valentines and the Grey Mare. All those routes mean you miss Cup & Saucer and Tarn Bluff. It's all good country. But you'll have to pick and choose.
Just don't try to go directly north from Mawsons over Cup And Saucer. That side gets a bit scrubby.

[walkon]

I actually used my topo maps a fair bit, they might be expensive but they don't run out of batteries and its easier to know the surrounding locale. I transposed info from chapmans ie tent/water/page nos to the different areas on the topo maps. Exit stratagies from topo to chapmans, If I lost one the other had the most info possible.
Re red jacket; Several signs on the walk said you could camp there, I know chappies update said otherwise, also you aren't meant to drive/ride there but people do & its pretty remote to get into trouble from anyone.
I camped at Murrays Gap, right on the border act/nsw from memory and it would be in the top five campsites I reckon. plus I did Bimberi first thing in the morning and got back to a dry tent.
Hotham accom: just suck it up the walks pretty cheap to do , remember Dinner Plains is 10-15km away from Hotham. Though the staff from the General at Hotham ran me down and back as they are part of the same mob. Ask nicely it worked for me. I have to say that the staff were extremely helpful and nice people.
Its pretty hard to fit everything into one walk, though for me the idea was to get off track as much as possible in NSW especially. The terrain/flora from The Kerries-Mawson is vastly different to that of Mawsons-Jagungal . Not as much of the later in Australia to see so I made that a bigger priority than Grey Mares/Valentines. Planning another walk to finish an area off/or revisit another isn't such a bad thing so that's what I went for. In a much earlier post elsewhere something NNW wrote reset my focus. Basically to take your time not rush, see as much as possible and enjoy it. Not much that I didn't do/see. Though I had done a number of areas like Blue Waterholes for instance in the past.

scoha: thanks much appreciated and I hope your updates bring it all back to me.

Happy for anyone to contact me with any questions.

[north-north-west]

I camped at Murrays Gap, right on the border act/nsw from memory and it would be in the top five campsites I reckon. plus I did Bimberi first thing in the morning and got back to a dry tent.

Yep, it's a great campsite. You can also camp up on Bimberi, although the weather can get a bit wild up there. But it's easier to get water down below.
Murray isn't far from the Gap either, just a bit slower going because there's not track.

[Mark F]

If the weather is good take the route from Schlink - Gungartan - Mawsons and directly to Jagungal (aim for the eastern end). No point in heading to Valentines. You will enjoy a couple of excellent days off the fire trails.

Also consider continuing across the Rolling Grounds to Dicky Cooper Bogong and then drop down to either Schlink Pass or Hilton rather than dropping down to Whites River.

Putting a drop in at the Cowombat Flat Track (see Chapman map page 145) will help cut the extra load needed to be carted from the Benambra-Corryong Rd for side trips to the Cobberas, exploring around Cowombat Flat and the Pilot. Being rather decrepit (over 60) I spent a bit more time on food drops and managed to keep all of them to under 5 days of supplies.

[north-north-west]

Also consider continuing across the Rolling Grounds to Dicky Cooper Bogong and then drop down to either Schlink Pass or Hilton rather than dropping down to Whites River.

My preferred route. Dicky Coopers Creek is usually easy to cross. And however you get to Jagungal (I prefer Gungartan/Tin/Brassies), you then cut east to Jagungal Saddle and follow Farm Ridge north over Jackys Lookout, and rejoin the track near the main Doubtful Creek crossing. Which is a brilliant spot to camp.

You can spend a lot of time exploring that area between the Main Range and Jagungal. So much lovely country.

[Suz]

Hmmm, are you thinking NNW that it would be good to wander about for an extra day or two on the main range? Spending the extra time is not really an issue for me as my job is casual.

I'm still compiling everyone's thoughts into my draft plans for revision.

There is a sliver of a chance Scoha that I'll see you on the trail, going the other way.

Walkon, do you mean you got picked up at Hotham to stay at Dinner Plain? I want to avoid spending unnessecarily large amounts of money for accom as I find it to be NEVER worth it for a hotel - backpackers are good - you know just somewhere clean, simple, warm and dry and where I can do my laundry. The other day, I just took the 'how does my annual income compare to other Australians' test and realised that I earn less than 90% of the population! That's the mindset I'm working from. Am poor, live cheap!

I might stay at blue jacket if its catchment area - even if red jacket is nicer. Seems mean to potentially put my poo poo in someone's drinking water.

[walkon]

I did stay at Hotham then as they had no availability for another night at The General I got a lift to their other accom at Dinner Plains and back. I'm pretty sure the cost was $140 p/n at dinner plains. Cant remember the Dinner Plains name though just give The General a call as they can give you a price and book it on their computer. No backpackers at hotham I know of, I was just letting you know about Dinner Plains as a number of people I know have mistakenly booked for there when staying at hotham. The resort gives out prices for there, which is not an issue if you are in a car a buggar if you are walking though as they were.

I stopped at Thredbo/Hotham for power recharge mainly, though shower and laundry were good.


I getting better at the less income thing atm though any money spent when I'm put in a room with a snorer is wasted for me.

You can spend a lot of time wandering the Main Range/Jagungal area, its a bit like how long is piece of string. Just have to figure how much time you've got as there's always a hill/range/plain/river/falls next to where ever you go.

Regarding Redjacket, if the only concerns are going to the loo, just walk away from the river a bit like I did.

[GBW]

Re red jacket; Several signs on the walk said you could camp there, I know chappies update said otherwise, also you aren't meant to drive/ride there but people do & its pretty remote to get into trouble from anyone.

Not this sign though. About 5 minutes after we arrived here from Blue Jacket at 8am a PV vehicle arrived and pulled up for a chat. Sure, they may turn a blind eye but who wants to risk a fine.

[Bushwalker99]

Hi Suz,
When we walked the AAWT last November we stayed at Leeton Lodge at Hotham. Very good deal and very comfortable. We had a few people and they may not do a deal for one person but if they have others staying there you could be in luck. Worth a try.

[Suz]

Ergh, Walkon I looked up prices at the General! You and I live in different price zones ARGH! Bushwalker99 thanks, I have emailed Leeton to see what the dealio is.

Back to my plan revision now.

[north-north-west]

Not this sign though. About 5 minutes after we arrived here from Blue Jacket at 8am a PV vehicle arrived and pulled up for a chat. Sure, they may turn a blind eye but who wants to risk a fine.

You actually SAW a ranger out and about?!!!!!!!! *&%$#! hell!

Well, that means you're safe, Suz. They won't be back up there for another year at least.

[Lophophaps]

You actually SAW a ranger out and about?!!!!!!!! *&%$#! hell!

Well, that means you're safe, Suz. They won't be back up there for another year at least.

My understanding is that PV staff are on a list of endangered species with Leadbeaters Possum, the Orange Bellied Parrot, and the Lesser Known Southern Tree Worm. There has been a revision to the Flora and Fauna Guarantee Act in that certain places now have guaranteed timber for logging. NNW's observation is correct. If you keep your eyes open you may see a variety of 4WD called Destructem maximus. Their spoor is unmistakable.

[Suz]

Oh god how depressing. In NSW the govt has also been making a hash of things in a different way - they have introduced a program whereby people with no experience and no prior background go into training programs with NPWS and get put through for any available jobs. NPWS prevent outsiders from having a chance at a position. Experienced people are prevented access to the training program, it's just for people with NO idea. This is despite the fact that getting to become a ranger has long been a sought after job by many - and many people have been working for years to get into NPWS - now they've no chance. That's what I'm told anyway, by one of my colleagues whose dad works there and she herself wants to work there but now realises she won't get in. A bright, young, dedicated potential employee with both undergrad and masters in biodiversity and conservation will lose out on becoming a ranger to some clueless pleb in 'training'.

[Suz]

Walkon, are you saying I take the blue pen line from grey mare to happy a hut? (From the pic)

[Suz]

Is this the suggested route you guys mean for dicky cooper bogong?

Also, if I camp at gungarten pass - would anyone know if there is reliable water there? I can carry it in but if it's already there - no need? Actually I'm not sure I can see reliable water in chapman across the Kerries at all. Anyone know?

[north-north-west]

Happys: Yep, that sort of thing. I've done something similar and also gone from Boo Bee cross country to Mackeys. It's all pretty open easy walking. And much more pleasant than following the track, as a rule.

Getting to Dicky Coopers, don't go straight to the summit. Curve a little further left at the saddle, climb up onto the ridge diagonally, and then follow it until you're near the extended boulder pile that is the high point. Work your way around the left side of the boulders until you're a bit past the highest. It's an easy scramble up from there. Then either backtrack to the start of the boulder pile and pick up a faint pad that leads down to the sign at the pass, or continue around the front of the boulders and follow the spur down to the creek valley and then across to the Schlink Hilton.

[Suz]

Ah cool excellent thanks I suppose I could always head down to the hut off bogong, stay there and get water and then back track along the official route to schlink pass and go via gungarten. that way i get the full pleasure of the kerries ridge.

would you happen to be able estimate how much time the non-official route via DCB would add vs the official route?

[Lophophaps]

Allow 2-3 days from Schlink Pass to Dead Horse Gap, which gives time for side-trips and bad weather. There is no defined track for much of the way from Schlink Pass to just before Tywnum, and from above Cootapatamba via Ramsheads to Dead Horse Gap. however, it's not too hard to follow. At Consett Stephens Pass go west until you are on top of the ridge. There's a short side-trip north to some high points. Then go along the ridge to Tate, where a track starts. There are many tracks in this region. Water can be found down most slopes.

The official AAWT route near here is not that good, and it's far better to walk on the Main Range. Or have they changed it again? From the Main Range you can go to The Sentinal, Watsons Crags, Townsend and many other peaks. Ramsheads are on the way to Dead Horse Gap.

The only problem with the Main Range is that it bypasses Thredbo, and a possible food dump. You may be able to arrange for the food dump to be taken to the top of the quad.

[north-north-west]

Allow 2-3 days from Schlink Pass to Dead Horse Gap, which gives time for side-trips and bad weather. There is no defined track for much of the way from Schlink Pass to just before Tywnum, and from above Cootapatamba via Ramsheads to Dead Horse Gap. however, it's not too hard to follow. At Consett Stephens Pass go west until you are on top of the ridge. There's a short side-trip north to some high points. Then go along the ridge to Tate, where a track starts. There are many tracks in this region. Water can be found down most slopes.

The official AAWT route near here is not that good, and it's far better to walk on the Main Range. Or have they changed it again? From the Main Range you can go to The Sentinal, Watsons Crags, Townsend and many other peaks. Ramsheads are on the way to Dead Horse Gap.

The only problem with the Main Range is that it bypasses Thredbo, and a possible food dump. You may be able to arrange for the food dump to be taken to the top of the quad.

Good advice, except reverse it. (She's planning to do the track the proper way - south to north )

[geoskid]

Oh god how depressing. In NSW the govt has also been making a hash of things in a different way - they have introduced a program whereby people with no experience and no prior background go into training programs with NPWS and get put through for any available jobs. NPWS prevent outsiders from having a chance at a position. Experienced people are prevented access to the training program, it's just for people with NO idea. This is despite the fact that getting to become a ranger has long been a sought after job by many - and many people have been working for years to get into NPWS - now they've no chance. That's what I'm told anyway, by one of my colleagues whose dad works there and she herself wants to work there but now realises she won't get in. A bright, young, dedicated potential employee with both undergrad and masters in biodiversity and conservation will lose out on becoming a ranger to some clueless pleb in 'training'.

Perhaps your colleague is over qualified to become a ranger Suz.
Why the need to call someone in training a 'clueless pleb'.
Your info is third hand-anyone know the facts?