AAWT advice

[askew116]

Hi folks, this is my first post in this forum!

I'm British, and am planning to walk the entire AAWT, beginning in October 2015. I'm looking for advice on preparation and planning for a bushwalk of this length and intensity.

I've done a few 2day/1night hikes in the UK, although none recently. Over the next year, I'll be completing a rigorous training programme in my local gym, so my fitness is at an acceptable level (currently, I'm overweight by 15lb, although my day to day fitness is good - this should be fixable within the year I'm giving myself).

Unfortunately the UK doesn't really have adequate trails to approximate the AAWT, and although I'll be climbing Mount Snowdon, and hiking Cannock Chase as part of my training, I realise that the AAWT is on a whole different league, from the research I've done.

To counteract this, I intend to give myself 50 days to complete the AAWT - which should allow for some rest days, and a couple of off-trail excursions. I will also be walking solo which, while it has its obvious disadvantages, means I can complete the trail at my own pace.

My reasons for doing this, apart from the physical challenge, is as a fundraiser for charity, and it's extremely important to me to complete the AAWT within the parameters I've set here.

My method of risk assessment so far, has been to determine #liabilities, and #insanities. The philosophy being that Liabilities can be dealt with, Insanities cannot. From what I've mentioned here, are there any insanities that I should be aware of?

I will be carrying a EPIRB, full set of maps (I can navigate competently), and in lieu of my inexperience in bushwalking, am giving myself extra time.

As mentioned, is there anything I'm planning here that strikes you as insane? Are there any tips you could give to help me with my planning? I'm especially keen to hear from anyone who's done the AAWT, but anyone with bushwalking experience I'm sure will be able to give valuable tips.

[icefest]

Have you thought about doing a week or 10 day of solo walking to see if you can cope with it? It's very different to a one night walk and can have many differing effects on people.

[neilmny]

It's a massive undertaking for someone who hasn't done much overnighting.
You will need this http://www.john.chapman.name/pub-aawt.html.

The weather can be harsh and unstable. Search weather patterns for the region for the time of year you are palnning on.
http://www.john.chapman.name/vic-alpt.html
http://www.atraxarta.com.au/Australian- ... -AAWT.aspx
https://themountainjournal.wordpress.co ... ing-track/

Read a lot, you may need that extra 15lbs as well. Make sure you understand what conditions you might encounter.

[askew116]

Have you thought about doing a week or 10 day of solo walking to see if you can cope with it? It's very different to a one night walk and can have many differing effects on people.

While I'd like to do this, there aren't really any suitable trails of that length in the UK. However, a few years ago, I cycled from John O'Groats to Land's End in 2 weeks, and while it wasn't solo, and we stayed in Hostels every night, I really enjoyed it, and craved something more isolated. I enjoy walking more than cycling anyway.

It's a massive undertaking for someone who hasn't done much overnighting.
You will need this http://www.john.chapman.name/pub-aawt.html.

The weather can be harsh and unstable. Search weather patterns for the region for the time of year you are palnning on.
http://www.john.chapman.name/vic-alpt.html
http://www.atraxarta.com.au/Australian- ... -AAWT.aspx
https://themountainjournal.wordpress.co ... ing-track/

Read a lot, you may need that extra 15lbs as well. Make sure you understand what conditions you might encounter.

Some great advice here! I'm about to order John Chapman's book as I type this. I've had a quick look at the other links you posted, and will spend time going over these. I'm researching the AAWT as much as I possibly can, and will begin training in the next week or so.

[Mark F]

You may want to have a crack at the Cape Wrath Trail in (soon to be independent) Scotland. This seems to be regarded as the most isolated wilderness style walk in the UK.

[north-north-west]

October is not the best time to be starting, especially for someone inexperienced at both overnighting and (I assume) alpine walking. The weather tends to be at its most unstable at that time of the year.

Also note that while the Chapman book is a relatively recent publication, there have been notable changes both to sections of the route, and track conditions. Maintenance is done mostly by schedule with some extra work for remediation of major damage, but it's always a toss-up as to which bits will be the most troublesome. Some areas are particularly prone to heavy regrowth, and the standard of the track varies enormously.

As for sidetrips - there are certain bits well worth the extra time and effort (and supplies):
the Razorback out to Feathertop, Grey Hills & Quartz Ridge tracks to Mt Bogong, the Cobberas, The Pilot. Plus the officially off-track route from Rawson Pass around the western side of the Main Range, over Tate and Dicky Coopers, then via Gungartan and the Kerries to Jagungal.

[Eljimberino]

May I ask when would be, theoretically, the best time to start?


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[north-north-west]

It depends to some degree on the amount of time you have allocated to the walk, and what your main concerns are. I would generally prefer to head off early autumn or late summer, as the weather is at its most stable then, but some people might be worried about heat and water supplies.
A lack of experience in long-distance walking (even in multi-day walks) increases the possibility of minor issues becoming more serious. The more negative factors you avoid, the lower the likelihood of problems.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

If You have only climbed the fells in the Lake district then climbing down from Roper's hut on the Bogong high Plains , 1300 M down to Big river on the AAWT and back up 1300 M to Mt. Bogong with a full pack will make you crap yourself ;-P, but good luck .
As I say to people who know, people who 'do' an hour at the Gym each day will never be as fit as multi night long distance pack hikers in the Australian Alps. In fact these gym creatures have no idea about the mental fitness that also comes with the trekking .

[Eljimberino]

Yes. I too am wondering why this person has selected this particular walk on the other side of the world as their first multi-day walk. There are plenty of week long walks in the UK to build your mental strength on.


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[paidal_chalne_vala]

Yes , but the UK does not have tracts of genuine sub alpine /Alpine wilderness and , creepy crawlies & hazards like the AAWT does. If you are a Britisher who knows nothing about the Oz bush and navigating in it then that is increasing the potential problems. I would say to our friend in the UK :Just start by walking around Wilsons Promontory National park here in Victoria , solo , over 4-5 nights and then try the Falls Creek- Mt Bogong - Mt Feathertop- Mt Loch area of the Victorian Alps over 5 -6 nights with a full pack , solo, before trying the
W H O L E of the AAWT.
Being helicopter rescued off the side of the proverbial Mt Fukka wukka could be embarrassing and expensive

[Eljimberino]

There are years and years worth of walks in the UK and then a short plane ride to Europe.


How many peaks are there in Scotland?

[askew116]

I really appreciate your replies, guys!

Given the mountainous nature of the AAWT I've decided to complete the 3 peaks challenge here in the UK. For anyone who doesn't already know, this involves scaling the 3 highest peaks of England, Wales and Scotland within 24 hours.

I feel this will give me a decent idea of the terrain difficulty of the AAWT, which is the aspect I'm most concerned about. For those questioning how I'd cope with the isolation, I can assure you I actually crave isolation and complete solitude.

My fitness, I can work on during the next year. I have a private pilots license, so I'm confident with navigation (aviation maps are formatted differently to topographical maps, but the same principles apply, and I feel I can easily learn this within the next year).

I understand everyone's concerns if I was attempting to begin the AAWT imminently, but I'm confident that within the time I'm allowing myself, both to train, and to complete the AAWT, that it'll be within my capability to complete

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Hi, Just say you do go ahead with your plans. You will need some local help to set up food, clean clothes and drinking water drops en route. I would also try hiking in some of the mountains in mainland Europe and not just the European Alps.
There is a hike in Southern Spain I have been looking at which involves a number of 3000 M + peaks . Your fitness would improve at that altitude. The main range and the High Plains here in NSW and VIC. are all situated at between 1700- 2200 M. above sea level . Good Luck and I hope your plans work out well, Insh`Allah!

[bernieq]

Hi Askew116,

Good on you for aiming high

As others have intimated, the AAWT isn’t just a walk in the park – and doing it end to end and solo adds considerably to the difficulty level. In addition, (I assume) you are not familiar with the Australian bush, climate (very different to UK) nor the level of infrastructure on the AAWT (virtually none).

Talbot Hut (ruin) - southern end of the Baw Baw Plateau April 2010

To counter all this and give yourself a reasonable chance of completing your goal, your planning will need to be thorough indeed (asking for info on this forum is a good, albeit short, step).

I have a couple of questions :
What do you expect your pack weight to be? (including food, water, all gear)
What do you intend to do regarding food? assuming food-drops, approximately how many days apart? and what will you use to store the food in (don’t forget to plan for recovery of the containers after the walk)

As well as the EPIRB (more correctly, PLB – epirb is for boats), I would strongly advise a GPS with the AAWT loaded. There are sections of the AAWT that are unmarked, indistinct and/or non-existent – the GPS can provide position co-ordinates for locating on the maps. More than a few have lost the track coming off the Viking and spent a couple of days pushing through horrendously thick scrub to finally regain the track.

Much of the AAWT has mobile phone coverage (but long sections, days of walking, do not). BTW, combining GPS and phone functions in the one device is asking for trouble.

In the planning, ensure you have escape routes – that you know how far to civilisation and assistance. Don’t scrimp on the first aid kit.

As well as detailed notes on the track, you will read in John Chapman’s AAWT book about safety, weather and a host of other useful bits. Quote “It cannot be emphasised too strongly that groups walking along the track must be experienced bushwalkers fully equipped for camping in all weather conditions and carrying all their food requirements with them”. Don’t dismiss the variable weather – snow, dense fog, freezing winds are all possible at any time, even in the middle of summer. Weather changes quickly and frequently.

Finally (and remember that gratuitous advice is often worth what you pay for it), the best training for bushwalking is bushwalking. The gym (and the 3 Peaks challenge) will help with the physical demands but the only way to train for the demands of carrying a pack, relying on your cooking gear, tent, sleeping bag, etc for days on end – is to put on a pack and do it - at least one extended walk (eg 4-day without any hostels, shops, shelters, roads).

[askew116]

Hi Askew116,

Good on you for aiming high

As others have intimated, the AAWT isn’t just a walk in the park – and doing it end to end and solo adds considerably to the difficulty level. In addition, (I assume) you are not familiar with the Australian bush, climate (very different to UK) nor the level of infrastructure on the AAWT (virtually none).

Talbot Hut.JPG

To counter all this and give yourself a reasonable chance of completing your goal, your planning will need to be thorough indeed (asking for info on this forum is a good, albeit short, step).

I have a couple of questions :
What do you expect your pack weight to be? (including food, water, all gear)
What do you intend to do regarding food? assuming food-drops, approximately how many days apart? and what will you use to store the food in (don’t forget to plan for recovery of the containers after the walk)

As well as the EPIRB (more correctly, PLB – epirb is for boats), I would strongly advise a GPS with the AAWT loaded. There are sections of the AAWT that are unmarked, indistinct and/or non-existent – the GPS can provide position co-ordinates for locating on the maps. More than a few have lost the track coming off the Viking and spent a couple of days pushing through horrendously thick scrub to finally regain the track.

Much of the AAWT has mobile phone coverage (but long sections, days of walking, do not). BTW, combining GPS and phone functions in the one device is asking for trouble.

In the planning, ensure you have escape routes – that you know how far to civilisation and assistance. Don’t scrimp on the first aid kit.

As well as detailed notes on the track, you will read in John Chapman’s AAWT book about safety, weather and a host of other useful bits. Quote “It cannot be emphasised too strongly that groups walking along the track must be experienced bushwalkers fully equipped for camping in all weather conditions and carrying all their food requirements with them”. Don’t dismiss the variable weather – snow, dense fog, freezing winds are all possible at any time, even in the middle of summer. Weather changes quickly and frequently.

Finally (and remember that gratuitous advice is often worth what you pay for it), the best training for bushwalking is bushwalking. The gym (and the 3 Peaks challenge) will help with the physical demands but the only way to train for the demands of carrying a pack, relying on your cooking gear, tent, sleeping bag, etc for days on end – is to put on a pack and do it - at least one extended walk (eg 4-day without any hostels, shops, shelters, roads).

Hi, and thank you for such a detailed post

To answer your questions, I'm expecting my pack weight to be 15-20kg. I haven't got as far as a detailed plan yet but I expect good drops to be around 6 days apart.

I got a good idea last month of the physical demands of a 20kg pack weight, as I hitch-hiked the length of the UK - from John O'Groats to Lands End. After a lift I was often dropped on the outskirts of a town/city and had to walk up to 5 miles to that nights accommodation. That trip took 1 week. While it obviously doesn't compare to the AAWT as I was walking on covered, fairly flat terrain, it was a useful start, especially so early in the training .

I'd say out of every aspect of the AAWT, what I'm most concerned about is the weather, as it's the only aspect I can't control, and as you said, your climate is very different and less stable than what I'm used to.

Also a question that's just occurred to me is wildlife. I know about the snakes, but is there any other wildlife to be cautious for?

[jjoz58]

Hi

I'm doing the AAWT, solo, Mt Hotham - Tharwa starting mid November this year. Just a couple of things, I was under the impression that a lot of the roads don't open until the end of October. Please correct me if I'm wrong but that may affect planned caches. I've planned caches every 4 days to lighten the pack as 15 - 20kgs is a lot of wt for that length of time. Get the navigation up to scratch in thick bush with a map and compass, you can't rely solely on a gps, one drop and you are without a means to navigate.

IMO an person with reasonable fitness can handle the physical requirements, barring injury, as long as you don't start out to hard, you will get fitter on the trail. I am taking it that they have the correct gear and some experience here. The mental ability to deal with unexpected circumstances, problems, loneliness etc is the hard part on long walks.

Lastly thank you to the person that reminded me of the decent and ascent from Big River on what will be my third day, I was trying to forget it. It's also only approx down 830 and up 760 metres. LOL

[bernieq]

Also a question that's just occurred to me is wildlife. I know about the snakes, but is there any other wildlife to be cautious for?

No, other than snakes, there's nothing to worry about. Although Aussie snakes are highly venomous, in reality they don't present too much of a risk. Mostly, they get out of the way before you see them - the biggest risk is on cooler days (particularly after a few hot days) as they are slower to move off the warmer rocks.

Are gaiters a thing in the UK? very good protection for snake bite (see the photo above - the green/black canvas coverings from foot to knee are worn primarily for that reason). Still, you should ensure you know the recommended method of immobilisation for snake-bite.

pack weight to be 15-20kg. ..... I expect good drops to be around 6 days apart.

OK, 20kg is achievable - 6 days possibly a bit short. You'll get more info from John Chapman's book but organising the food-drops is quite a logistics exercise in itself.

Lastly thank you to the person that reminded me of the decent and ascent from Big River on what will be my third day, I was trying to forget it. It's also only approx down 830 and up 760 metres.

Gee, lucky you're not doing the bit through the Thompson, Jordan and Black rivers - three lots of 7-800m up and down in three consecutive days. It really tests out the quads !

[Mark F]

A few thoughts/ideas.

Do the walk Tharwa to Walhalla. The section through to the NSW-Vic border is easy, open walking on tracks/fire trails so provides a relatively easy start to get gear and body sorted out. There are also many huts along the way should really need them. These sorts of walks are about endurance. Start slowly and allow your body to build up. Pushing too hard at the start is a sure path to failure.

As others have mentioned several roads are not open until early/mid October to put in food drops. A start around mid/late October gives time to get the drops in and should avoid any issues with snow on the Main Range. Take time to get your drops in place. With a little extra effort you can generally get 3 - 4 days between drops apart from Kiandra - Thredbo, and the leg south of Hotham.

Work hard to get your weight down. You should be able to get it under 10 kg with careful gear selection and more like 7 or 8 kg before food and water.

Don't expect to see many people along the way. I left Tharwa in early December and only saw other people about every 4 or 5 days.

[Mutley]

Good on you for attempting such a challenging walk. I am walking the AAWT solo also, in November this year, from Tharwa to Walhalla. I am happy to share my food drop locations, gear lists, etc. the JC book is essential. Also, have a look at Karens trip logs from a couple of years ago. This site includes a detailed itinerary of her trip as well as Kml files to upload to your gps. Just google Karen AAWT to find the page.

My only concern is your experience in the Australian bush. You need to be extremely aware of water supplies and potential for dehydration. Walk with gaiters to protect against snake bite and sharp stick injuries. You need to walk carefully and be observant at all times. One bad step can result in an injury which may end your walk. In most cases this will mean a very expensive search and rescue and possible airlift. Make sure your travel insurance covers all of this. Make sure you know your gear intimately and make sure it is the right equipment. Can you efficiently erect your tent in strong wind and rain ? Can you pack up and leave camp in similar conditions, without getting all your gear soaked ? If it rains all day, will your clothing still keep you warm and dry and all your gear dry inside your pack ?

Please feel free to pm me if you would like me to share my gear lists.

[jjoz58]

Gee, lucky you're not doing the bit through the Thompson, Jordan and Black rivers - three lots of 7-800m up and down in three consecutive days. It really tests out the quads !

Done that before for Army adventure training, as though a bunch on infantry needed to bush walk for adventure training in 1987. Whole trip was from Walhalla to Kiandra. I'm just using this to test new gear and get a few mountains under my belt in readiness for the AT next year. From what I remember that part up to My Hotham was hard, especially with about 35 kg on the back, with a very indistinct to no track so I'm happy to miss that. But it is a very beautiful part of Australia which is why I decided to go back and do some of it again as well as the part we didn't cover.

[north-north-west]

Re: road access for food drops. You need to check on the Parks Victoria website, but to the best of my knowledge, the standard opening date for the gated alpine roads is the Thursday immediately prior to Cup Weekend. This could cause problems for a projected October start date.

I really don't get the 'start at the north' thing. I'd hate to get off the good country so early, and have the drudgery of then having to slog my way from Skene to and over the Baw Baw.

[Lophophaps]

As advised above, you need to be aware of snakes. They often choose a sunny place, and this may well be on a track. Gaiters will assist in minimising a bite, but the best method is to watch out for snakes every step. Give the snake an escape route, and you as well.

One good insurance is ambulance. It costs about $40 and will cover emergency evacuation. See
http://www.ambulance.vic.gov.au/Members ... vQodULsAaQ

[Mark F]

The main reason I suggested N-S is the lack of experience of the op in Australian conditions. Getting a couple of weeks of easy navigation and no scrub under the belt before hitting Victoria would be a useful introduction. It allows getting the camping set up and daily routine sorted out before any of the more difficult bits (overgrown sections, harder navigation etc) are reached.

[Travis22]

Guess it depends where you live, to me starting at the a Northern end and heading South is the way to go as I'd be heading 'home'. Logistically I'd simply prefer it that way.

Travis.

[jjoz58]

The main reason I suggested N-S is the lack of experience of the op in Australian conditions. Getting a couple of weeks of easy navigation and no scrub under the belt before hitting Victoria would be a useful introduction. It allows getting the camping set up and daily routine sorted out before any of the more difficult bits (overgrown sections, harder navigation etc) are reached.

Got to agree with Mark as from what I remember (1987) and reading Karen's track notes the southern end is the most difficult for both navigation and density of bush. Having said that I can't comment on the route from Kiandra to Tharwa as I haven't done that part yet.

[north-north-west]

The Victorian section has been upgraded and re-routed significantly since 1987.
There's no difficult navigation or scrub between Walhalla and . . . hmmmmmm, I'm trying to think where the occasional scrubby bits start - maybe Victor Spur or the Black River crossing/Shillinglaw if there's been no track maintenance since the last time I was there. Nothing major until Mt Sunday/Low Saddle, and I know the bit north of Sunday has been done so it won't be anywhere near as bad as when I first did it and one can always bypass those short bits by using the roads anyway. Thompson River, Baw Baw, Thompson (again), Easton, Jordan River is an easy section.
Also relatively boring. A lot of road/4wd track walking and scruffy forest.

[Mark F]

It only takes a couple of years to go from clear to scrubby in the post fire regrowth. My walk was in 2010 there were several sections that were quite dense.

[madmacca]

Firstly, by planning more than 12 months ahead, you are giving yourself every chance of succeeding.

I agree that Chapman's book is a must, but there have been some changes since it was published - check Chapman's website for online updates http://www.john.chapman.name/aawt-upd.html and also the Australian Alps National Parks' site http://theaustralianalps.wordpress.com/experience/aawt/

Early October timing is problematic - a couple of the key roads necessary for even a minimal resupply strategy (every 110 km or so) are not open as of 28 Sep 14, although should open within a week or so. The bush tracks that you would need for a more frequent resupply strategy than this will not open until early November. Also, early Ocotber may still have significant snow on the higher sections - this will mean either slow and fatigueing travel, or snow-shoes. Personally, I like the spring timing, as water is still plentiful, and the risk of fire is much lower. If you can push things back to late October, then you will probably make things easier on yourself.

While things like 3 Peaks are a good fitness challenge, your preparation should also include some 2-3 day wild camping walks in the Pennines or Scottish Highlands (especially as you can still walk there without a passport. ) These will teach you some skills, and also the chance to test and prepare your gear. And try and do these in say, November, or March rather than the northern summer - conditions should match the worst of the AAWT.

The big risks of the AAWT (in no particular order) are snakes, trips and falls, heat exposure/dehydration, hypothermia, and bushfire. With the right equipment, skills and knowledge, most of these can be managed and should not be #insanities.

When you are ready, you may want to post a gear list over on the equipment thread for a constructive critique.

[Lophophaps]

Madmacca, good summary.