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Mon 11 Jun, 2012 12:29 pm
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I'm a bit of a cheeky bugger, so i thought i'd start with a bit of an inflammatory topic. But in all seriousness, this is something that has been on my mind and i would like to hear other peoples opinions.
I'll start by saying that only recently have i been that interested in bushwalking gear. Although i've been going on trips and walks for about 12+ years i've always used other peoples gear and had other people worry about it. I still borrow a fair bit, but i am now more interested in doing my own thing and need my own gear or at the very least i need to take responsibility for the gear i use. I also feel that i have a good understanding of how to correctly pitch tents, how to look after gear etc.
The feeling i have about Macpac is based on real life experiences and use of this equipment over a few years primarily in Tasmania but also in Victoria and NSW. I have also used, what i feel is, a wide range of the products they have on offer. To be precise, we own the following. One old school Olympus, two Olympus tents, one Minaret, one Microlite, one Bivibag, one of the older sleeping bags, two packs, one Copland jacket, a down jacket, a bunch of their fleeces and some thermals. There may even be more i am forgetting. I have personally used all of this gear bar one of the backpacks and the rain coat.
There are a number of reasons why i feel Macpac is now a second (or even third) rate gear company. Although i was never alive in their glory days, i think that this is a relativity new occurrence. edit I feel that design compromises have been made to aid aesthetics and cost of production including choice of material. edit Although they have a great store in town where i live, the people who work there don't seem to be people who like the outdoors, rather talented sales people. But maybe that is just me being elitist. Also, finding the same stuff in Kathmandu with out Macpac branding at a lower price is always annoying, although i did not wish to purchase this item anyway.
The Microlite tent. I find this tent extremely difficult to pitch correctly. I always find that the sides sag on the slightest uneven ground. Its interior space has led it to be referred to as the coffin (by me). I find it too small to cook inside. But i am told that at it's time, it was a highly innovative design and important tent. At 1.6kg it is also pretty heavy (given the size inside). Honestly, i'd prefer to bivi bag. Witch actually leads me to one potential use for this tent. Someone pointed out to me that it would be possible to remove the inner skin and use it as a really awesome tarp for your bivi bag. this would increase space, make it possible to cook. Not something i have tried yet, however.
The Minaret. Have only used in favourable conditions. Liked the design, works well for a two man. I fear it suffers from the same material problems as the Olympus, as detailed below.
The Olympus. The big heavy 'can withstand cyclones' tent. Having just come back from a 12 day trip in SW Tas using this tent I feel like i know it pretty well. I'm sure we know the good points of this tent (of witch there are many) but i will focus on the problems. The venting. Macpac changes the way the venting works on these tents and it is defiantly for the worst. It used to work that air would flow up the doors, along the roof of the tent then out the top of the other door (if there was wind). Now the venting comes from four side vents (two per door) and is not wind fed as there is no big flat panel for wind to flow up and into the vent. We had extreme condensation issues with this tent. One morning camped on the shore of Lake Pedder we woke up with more moisture on the inside of the tent than the out side. Worrying, given that a front had passed through over night. Please realise we had done out best to keep this tent well ventilated. All the vents were kept open, only the mesh door was (partly) closed with the more solid material rolled away. The fly doors were as open as possible at both the top and the bottom. The inside of the tent looked like it was hosed down. At least my sleeping bag was only half wet. I think some of this moisture had come from the tent fabric leaking, but i can't be sure. The floor of the tent is made from TorrentwearTM XP. My understanding is this fabric is not the same as what many other tents use as it is propriety to Macpac. On their website they claim it has a Hydrostatic Head of up to 10,000mm (why they don't say 10m i don't know). But on multiple occasions i have seen the floor of this tent leek. We did a walk in the Walls where dad, my little brother and i were camping. We came into a camp at about 7.30 (1.5 hours after dark) and dad set up his Olympus tent in what looked like a good spot but turned out to be a hollow, while i set up my bivi bag on a nice, well drained slope. In the morning, the hollow had collected a bit of water but worse there was a large puddle on the tent. We're talking 1cm deep water in the bottom of the tent. I was substantially drier in the (condensation prone) bivi bag. Dad was saved only by the thickness of his mattress only to keep him dry. I know that sleeping in a puddle of water is asking for trouble, but i still expected better performance. I have herd of people in their old style Olympus tents sleeping on snow and the snow underneath melting, causing a 'bouncy water bed', but not penetrating the flooring material. Going back to the SW Tas trip i was on, we go a significant amount of water coming through the floor of the tent on sloping, although moist, ground. It was enough water to make mine and my buddies Thermarest and sleeping bag uncomfortably wet. Maybe it isn't the material they use that is entirely to blame, but also the two piece floor construction that makes it leek. This two piece floor was not something i expected to see on this tent.
Possibly the worst short falling i have seen was with the Copland jacket. On a bush walk that had some pretty bad weather, it was last easter if you guys remember, the entire back and shoulders of the jacket delaminated. I've never seen anything like it before. From my understanding of the material from how it came apart, the outside material separated from the membrane witch separated from the inside material. The membrane disintegrated to the point that dad was complaining of 'slime' in his jacket before he took it off at camp and discovered the problem. When dry it felt flaky as it came off but when it was wet it was gooey. The whole delimitation happened over the course of a day, it was fine one day then useless the next. This was pretty dangerous, as we were walking in cold and snow for another day and dad was wet (as the jacket was not waterproof anymore) and cold (as he was wet). We took this jacket back to Macpac, not for a refund but as we were worried that other people would buy this product thinking that it was up to standard were in reality it is probably best left for use around town. We also wondered weather we had simply got a bad example. The jacket was bought in late 2009 but not heavily used at all. The people at Macpac were adamant that it was too dirty. It wasn't immaculately clean, but it certainly wasn't too bad either. Remembering it wasn't cleaned after the four day trip for fear of doing more damage. Anyway, they sent it to NZ to be assessed. Perhaps people know, but your supposed to put your Macpac jacket through the washing machine after even use. Seems rash given i wouldn't put a jacket i wear around town through the wash that regularly. I don't believe that in this case design was at fault as it is so similar to the Mont Tempest jacket that had lasted for years prior.
To be fair, i love my Macpac pack, it has lasted well bearly showing signs of age. It is heavy, but robust and comfortable. All the other Macpac equipment i have used has been fine except for the bivi bag witch has a floor as equallyy leaky as the Olympus's. I hope i don't come across at too negative. I like many things that Macpac have done and still do, but i feel they are not doing the best job they could and their gear is below par. They seem to not be innovating any more, rather cashing in on an image built by their ethos of times passed. I hope that people who read this do not feel i am attacking them, rather i am just sharing my opinions and experiences. Maybe other companies are no better, i honestly have not used enough of their stuff to know. Are my experiences normal? Am i doing something wrong?
Stay Safe
I'm a bit of a cheeky bugger, so i thought i'd start with a bit of an inflammatory topic. But in all seriousness, this is something that has been on my mind and i would like to hear other peoples opinions.
I'll start by saying that only recently have i been that interested in bushwalking gear. Although i've been going on trips and walks for about 12+ years i've always used other peoples gear and had other people worry about it. I still borrow a fair bit, but i am now more interested in doing my own thing and need my own gear or at the very least i need to take responsibility for the gear i use. I also feel that i have a good understanding of how to correctly pitch tents, how to look after gear etc.
The feeling i have about Macpac is based on real life experiences and use of this equipment over a few years primarily in Tasmania but also in Victoria and NSW. I have also used, what i feel is, a wide range of the products they have on offer. To be precise, we own the following. One old school Olympus, two Olympus tents, one Minaret, one Microlite, one Bivibag, one of the older sleeping bags, two packs, one Copland jacket, a down jacket, a bunch of their fleeces and some thermals. There may even be more i am forgetting. I have personally used all of this gear bar one of the backpacks and the rain coat.
There are a number of reasons why i feel Macpac is now a second (or even third) rate gear company. Although i was never alive in their glory days, i think that this is a relativity new occurrence. edit I feel that design compromises have been made to aid aesthetics and cost of production including choice of material. edit Although they have a great store in town where i live, the people who work there don't seem to be people who like the outdoors, rather talented sales people. But maybe that is just me being elitist. Also, finding the same stuff in Kathmandu with out Macpac branding at a lower price is always annoying, although i did not wish to purchase this item anyway.
The Microlite tent. I find this tent extremely difficult to pitch correctly. I always find that the sides sag on the slightest uneven ground. Its interior space has led it to be referred to as the coffin (by me). I find it too small to cook inside. But i am told that at it's time, it was a highly innovative design and important tent. At 1.6kg it is also pretty heavy (given the size inside). Honestly, i'd prefer to bivi bag. Witch actually leads me to one potential use for this tent. Someone pointed out to me that it would be possible to remove the inner skin and use it as a really awesome tarp for your bivi bag. this would increase space, make it possible to cook. Not something i have tried yet, however.
The Minaret. Have only used in favourable conditions. Liked the design, works well for a two man. I fear it suffers from the same material problems as the Olympus, as detailed below.
The Olympus. The big heavy 'can withstand cyclones' tent. Having just come back from a 12 day trip in SW Tas using this tent I feel like i know it pretty well. I'm sure we know the good points of this tent (of witch there are many) but i will focus on the problems. The venting. Macpac changes the way the venting works on these tents and it is defiantly for the worst. It used to work that air would flow up the doors, along the roof of the tent then out the top of the other door (if there was wind). Now the venting comes from four side vents (two per door) and is not wind fed as there is no big flat panel for wind to flow up and into the vent. We had extreme condensation issues with this tent. One morning camped on the shore of Lake Pedder we woke up with more moisture on the inside of the tent than the out side. Worrying, given that a front had passed through over night. Please realise we had done out best to keep this tent well ventilated. All the vents were kept open, only the mesh door was (partly) closed with the more solid material rolled away. The fly doors were as open as possible at both the top and the bottom. The inside of the tent looked like it was hosed down. At least my sleeping bag was only half wet. I think some of this moisture had come from the tent fabric leaking, but i can't be sure. The floor of the tent is made from TorrentwearTM XP. My understanding is this fabric is not the same as what many other tents use as it is propriety to Macpac. On their website they claim it has a Hydrostatic Head of up to 10,000mm (why they don't say 10m i don't know). But on multiple occasions i have seen the floor of this tent leek. We did a walk in the Walls where dad, my little brother and i were camping. We came into a camp at about 7.30 (1.5 hours after dark) and dad set up his Olympus tent in what looked like a good spot but turned out to be a hollow, while i set up my bivi bag on a nice, well drained slope. In the morning, the hollow had collected a bit of water but worse there was a large puddle on the tent. We're talking 1cm deep water in the bottom of the tent. I was substantially drier in the (condensation prone) bivi bag. Dad was saved only by the thickness of his mattress only to keep him dry. I know that sleeping in a puddle of water is asking for trouble, but i still expected better performance. I have herd of people in their old style Olympus tents sleeping on snow and the snow underneath melting, causing a 'bouncy water bed', but not penetrating the flooring material. Going back to the SW Tas trip i was on, we go a significant amount of water coming through the floor of the tent on sloping, although moist, ground. It was enough water to make mine and my buddies Thermarest and sleeping bag uncomfortably wet. Maybe it isn't the material they use that is entirely to blame, but also the two piece floor construction that makes it leek. This two piece floor was not something i expected to see on this tent.
Possibly the worst short falling i have seen was with the Copland jacket. On a bush walk that had some pretty bad weather, it was last easter if you guys remember, the entire back and shoulders of the jacket delaminated. I've never seen anything like it before. From my understanding of the material from how it came apart, the outside material separated from the membrane witch separated from the inside material. The membrane disintegrated to the point that dad was complaining of 'slime' in his jacket before he took it off at camp and discovered the problem. When dry it felt flaky as it came off but when it was wet it was gooey. The whole delimitation happened over the course of a day, it was fine one day then useless the next. This was pretty dangerous, as we were walking in cold and snow for another day and dad was wet (as the jacket was not waterproof anymore) and cold (as he was wet). We took this jacket back to Macpac, not for a refund but as we were worried that other people would buy this product thinking that it was up to standard were in reality it is probably best left for use around town. We also wondered weather we had simply got a bad example. The jacket was bought in late 2009 but not heavily used at all. The people at Macpac were adamant that it was too dirty. It wasn't immaculately clean, but it certainly wasn't too bad either. Remembering it wasn't cleaned after the four day trip for fear of doing more damage. Anyway, they sent it to NZ to be assessed. Perhaps people know, but your supposed to put your Macpac jacket through the washing machine after even use. Seems rash given i wouldn't put a jacket i wear around town through the wash that regularly. I don't believe that in this case design was at fault as it is so similar to the Mont Tempest jacket that had lasted for years prior.
To be fair, i love my Macpac pack, it has lasted well bearly showing signs of age. It is heavy, but robust and comfortable. All the other Macpac equipment i have used has been fine except for the bivi bag witch has a floor as equallyy leaky as the Olympus's. I hope i don't come across at too negative. I like many things that Macpac have done and still do, but i feel they are not doing the best job they could and their gear is below par. They seem to not be innovating any more, rather cashing in on an image built by their ethos of times passed. I hope that people who read this do not feel i am attacking them, rather i am just sharing my opinions and experiences. Maybe other companies are no better, i honestly have not used enough of their stuff to know. Are my experiences normal? Am i doing something wrong?
Stay Safe
Last edited by MrSafety on Mon 11 Jun, 2012 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 2:45 pm
my opinion is that all gear is getting more flimsy which I think is both a reflection on society and the massive explosion of lightweight gear. As an example; when was the last time you saw a television repair shop? They almost don't exist as TV's have become so cheap compared to what they used to cost. We tend to buy equipment these days that we expect it to last a couple of years and then throw it out and replace. Recently I have bought bushwalking gear that cost me twice as much 15 years ago that it did this year, and that isn't allowing for inflation. Also with the push towards lighter and lighter gear they now lack that robustness than gear used to have. It is all swings and roundabouts, I still reckon I spend the same amount on gear but I throw a lot more out as it is worn out quickly.
On the other hand lighter gear means a trip that used to take 10 days now can easily be done in a week. I hate throwing things out but would I buy heavier more xpensive gear these days? Probably not!
*Condensation in tents is a lot more to do with climatic conditions and the inhabitants than the design. If it is raining it is pretty safe to assume the air has reached saturation point and will not be able to remove any condensation formed on the tent not matter how much air is flowing through it.
On the other hand lighter gear means a trip that used to take 10 days now can easily be done in a week. I hate throwing things out but would I buy heavier more xpensive gear these days? Probably not!
*Condensation in tents is a lot more to do with climatic conditions and the inhabitants than the design. If it is raining it is pretty safe to assume the air has reached saturation point and will not be able to remove any condensation formed on the tent not matter how much air is flowing through it.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 3:28 pm
Yes I think some of the macpac gear is getting a bit light on in the price and durability wise.
I still buy their gear as I am now very careful and research a fair bit on what the products are meant to be used for. I think the jacket you mentioned is more for light duty use I have the hollyford jacket which is a bit more made for such trips as you mentioned. But I guess the lighter and cheaper the gear is sometimes the duty of the gear is less than expected.
Please do your homework when buying any gear. I do and sometimes get it right.
I am interested in what the blacksheep has to say about it as I think he works for macpac. I am in no way affiliated with macpac, maybe I can't believe that it is not as good as it used to be.
Marty.
I still buy their gear as I am now very careful and research a fair bit on what the products are meant to be used for. I think the jacket you mentioned is more for light duty use I have the hollyford jacket which is a bit more made for such trips as you mentioned. But I guess the lighter and cheaper the gear is sometimes the duty of the gear is less than expected.
Please do your homework when buying any gear. I do and sometimes get it right.
I am interested in what the blacksheep has to say about it as I think he works for macpac. I am in no way affiliated with macpac, maybe I can't believe that it is not as good as it used to be.
Marty.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 3:38 pm
Dear Mr. Safety,
it's just you.
When you invest in a macpac product I hope you have selected a faithful, well resolved and quality partner for your adventures.
These tents you mention haven't had any more than small tweeks for over a decade.( and are largley unchanged for the 15 years before that!) The materials have only recently changed to a more expensive and higher spec sil nylon (please ask Roger Caffin about his fabric tests on our products , or better still, subscribe to BPL if you want to see some impartial testing and reviews of the best tents, you'll see you are of an opposing view to one of the most informed product reviewers in Australasia)
The Microlite is not the lightest on the market, it is not the best in humid conditions (not all mesh) but it is outstanding in fullfilling its purpose- a lightweight shelter that can withstand the worst conditions. We use a floor that is best in class, and that contributes to a weight penalty, and a pitching system that makes sense in crappy conditions, but adds grams. This is a product that shines in the field, especially when it all turns ugly.
The Minaret and Olympus tents have not had major updates for 20 years, so not sure when this "going to the dogs happened". We specify these to the eyeballs for bad weather, and whether we say 10m or 10,000mm it is still the best floor material on the market. period. In regards to ventilation, as well as the vents you refer too I assume you did notice that the front door has 4 zipper sliders on it? This gives the user many options on adding additional ventilation. There is the opportunity to open additional venting on the front door and work the air flow as these tents have always done (same but 2 zips on rear entry) as well as opeing the vents by utalising the zipper sliders. To add mesh would be a mistaken design improvement, as mesh would greatly reduce the comfort this tent provides in winter conditions. The tent floor is wider than any current PU coated fabric is available in (as it has a bathtub design). Having one straight seam(which is easy to seal to a high water head) is required, and the best solution (until a factory can apply a 10,000mm pu coating on a 72in width ).
I would ask that you retract comments like "The designs they use are no longer about functionality but aesthetics and cost of production. The materials are no longer the best one for the job, but the cheapest they can get away with. " from your comments as I do not believe you have a good insight on how the design team here work, the testing we do and the pride we take in the products we produce. It is untrue, defamatory and offensive and bad manners.
If you had an issue with delamination on a rainjacket, please return it. We stand behind our products and our customers and will endeavour to make any issue right.
I will allow other voices to give feedback, but mine is one of disappointment of the tone you chose as a debut post in this forum.
I am an owner, director and design manager with Macpac. I am extremely proud of what we do here, and have zero interest in changing that.
Campbell Junor
it's just you.
When you invest in a macpac product I hope you have selected a faithful, well resolved and quality partner for your adventures.
These tents you mention haven't had any more than small tweeks for over a decade.( and are largley unchanged for the 15 years before that!) The materials have only recently changed to a more expensive and higher spec sil nylon (please ask Roger Caffin about his fabric tests on our products , or better still, subscribe to BPL if you want to see some impartial testing and reviews of the best tents, you'll see you are of an opposing view to one of the most informed product reviewers in Australasia)
The Microlite is not the lightest on the market, it is not the best in humid conditions (not all mesh) but it is outstanding in fullfilling its purpose- a lightweight shelter that can withstand the worst conditions. We use a floor that is best in class, and that contributes to a weight penalty, and a pitching system that makes sense in crappy conditions, but adds grams. This is a product that shines in the field, especially when it all turns ugly.
The Minaret and Olympus tents have not had major updates for 20 years, so not sure when this "going to the dogs happened". We specify these to the eyeballs for bad weather, and whether we say 10m or 10,000mm it is still the best floor material on the market. period. In regards to ventilation, as well as the vents you refer too I assume you did notice that the front door has 4 zipper sliders on it? This gives the user many options on adding additional ventilation. There is the opportunity to open additional venting on the front door and work the air flow as these tents have always done (same but 2 zips on rear entry) as well as opeing the vents by utalising the zipper sliders. To add mesh would be a mistaken design improvement, as mesh would greatly reduce the comfort this tent provides in winter conditions. The tent floor is wider than any current PU coated fabric is available in (as it has a bathtub design). Having one straight seam(which is easy to seal to a high water head) is required, and the best solution (until a factory can apply a 10,000mm pu coating on a 72in width ).
I would ask that you retract comments like "The designs they use are no longer about functionality but aesthetics and cost of production. The materials are no longer the best one for the job, but the cheapest they can get away with. " from your comments as I do not believe you have a good insight on how the design team here work, the testing we do and the pride we take in the products we produce. It is untrue, defamatory and offensive and bad manners.
If you had an issue with delamination on a rainjacket, please return it. We stand behind our products and our customers and will endeavour to make any issue right.
I will allow other voices to give feedback, but mine is one of disappointment of the tone you chose as a debut post in this forum.
I am an owner, director and design manager with Macpac. I am extremely proud of what we do here, and have zero interest in changing that.
Campbell Junor
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 4:01 pm
Well if Macpac have gone to the dogs then a lot of people are being fooled ! On a recent walk in the Blue Mountains I passed around 30 hikers over the two days, and being the gear tragic I am was noting their brand of backpacks and other items I could see. At least half of the gear was Macpac and then a smattering of Kathmandu, et.al. The age of the Macpac gear spanned some new stuff to a lot of old packs; they look like they'd seen a lot of wear and tear and still in service.
This is purely anecdotal and doesn't address whether the gear is in decline or not, but an interesting 'sample' nonetheless.
FWIW I use a reasonable amount of Macpac clothing and am very happy, not had an issue. The only piece of Macpac gear failure I've had are a pair of hiking poles I picked up for I think about $50 / pair and they lasted a year of high usage. So for $50 I still considered this money well spent.
This is purely anecdotal and doesn't address whether the gear is in decline or not, but an interesting 'sample' nonetheless.
FWIW I use a reasonable amount of Macpac clothing and am very happy, not had an issue. The only piece of Macpac gear failure I've had are a pair of hiking poles I picked up for I think about $50 / pair and they lasted a year of high usage. So for $50 I still considered this money well spent.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 4:23 pm
whats happened with gear over the decades is it has specialised.
in new zealand if you go back several decades all the gear was made for trampers who were going to have to bush bash, it was heavy duty rugged gear that lasted in tough conditions.
then the companies started specialising, some companies specialised more in heavy duty gear for trampers who were going off track, companies specialised in gear for hunters who were definitely going off track in thick bush.
overseas trends in tramping gear were coming down under, the influence of lightweight gear, that wasnt as bomb proof as people had been used to.
it's a trade off, my pack with all its gear of a half week trip would be at least five kilos lighter than it used to be. can't say i'd be happy taking it bush bashing but otherwise it serves it's purpose. if i went bush bashing i'd choose my gear differently and would be using different companies
in new zealand if you go back several decades all the gear was made for trampers who were going to have to bush bash, it was heavy duty rugged gear that lasted in tough conditions.
then the companies started specialising, some companies specialised more in heavy duty gear for trampers who were going off track, companies specialised in gear for hunters who were definitely going off track in thick bush.
overseas trends in tramping gear were coming down under, the influence of lightweight gear, that wasnt as bomb proof as people had been used to.
it's a trade off, my pack with all its gear of a half week trip would be at least five kilos lighter than it used to be. can't say i'd be happy taking it bush bashing but otherwise it serves it's purpose. if i went bush bashing i'd choose my gear differently and would be using different companies
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 4:31 pm
While I think there have been a few products with design flaws over the years and your comment on the sales-folk being sales-folk first and walkers/mountaineers second if at all is valid ( but that applies to almost all shops today) and some of the new gear seems to be travel oriented but "Gone to the dogs" Not yet. I hope never.
Not a big user of Macpac gear although I have bought some over the years, I have to say tho that my only real comment//complaint was treated in an off-hand manner at the time. Customer service tho is and always has been exceptionally good. You cannot argue with designs in the third or fourth decade.
Has it become a "Brand" yes it has, inevitable I suppose, has it gone the same way as TNF and Columbia? Not yet and I hope it never does
Not a big user of Macpac gear although I have bought some over the years, I have to say tho that my only real comment//complaint was treated in an off-hand manner at the time. Customer service tho is and always has been exceptionally good. You cannot argue with designs in the third or fourth decade.
Has it become a "Brand" yes it has, inevitable I suppose, has it gone the same way as TNF and Columbia? Not yet and I hope it never does
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 5:44 pm
Haha this is one of the best trolls I've seen ever on the site.
If your going to sign up just to write a illogical long winded rant your life must be pretty tragic.
Personally I feel the admins should delete this thread as well as your username.
Goodbye mcjerk
If your going to sign up just to write a illogical long winded rant your life must be pretty tragic.
Personally I feel the admins should delete this thread as well as your username.
Goodbye mcjerk
Disagree.
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 6:14 pm
I don't think this is at all a fair evaluation of macpac. There gear is of a good quality in my experience and does DEFINITELY not deserve to be compared to the likes of Kathmandu.
And please tell me how eVent is cheap?
And please tell me how eVent is cheap?
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 8:22 pm
doogs wrote:my opinion is that all gear is getting more flimsy which I think is both a reflection on society and the massive explosion of lightweight gear. As an example; when was the last time you saw a television repair shop? They almost don't exist as TV's have become so cheap compared to what they used to cost. We tend to buy equipment these days that we expect it to last a couple of years and then throw it out and replace. Recently I have bought bushwalking gear that cost me twice as much 15 years ago that it did this year, and that isn't allowing for inflation. Also with the push towards lighter and lighter gear they now lack that robustness than gear used to have. It is all swings and roundabouts, I still reckon I spend the same amount on gear but I throw a lot more out as it is worn out quickly.
On the other hand lighter gear means a trip that used to take 10 days now can easily be done in a week. I hate throwing things out but would I buy heavier more xpensive gear these days? Probably not!
*Condensation in tents is a lot more to do with climatic conditions and the inhabitants than the design. If it is raining it is pretty safe to assume the air has reached saturation point and will not be able to remove any condensation formed on the tent not matter how much air is flowing through it.
Sad but true, in this day and age of consumerism there are only a select few companies that make gear that is made to last. With TV's at least by the time they are broken the technolergy is obselete. This is less true with tents.
By increasing air flow you would also lower temperature inside the tent witch would lower condensation.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 8:24 pm
I saw it as a pretty poor taste first post - Imagine what he must think of Katmandu or some of the other so called outdoors stores.
I am biased however as I have quite a bit of very good Macpac gear and have had most of it for many, many years.
I am biased however as I have quite a bit of very good Macpac gear and have had most of it for many, many years.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 8:26 pm
MartyGwynne wrote:Yes I think some of the macpac gear is getting a bit light on in the price and durability wise.
I still buy their gear as I am now very careful and research a fair bit on what the products are meant to be used for. I think the jacket you mentioned is more for light duty use I have the hollyford jacket which is a bit more made for such trips as you mentioned. But I guess the lighter and cheaper the gear is sometimes the duty of the gear is less than expected.
Please do your homework when buying any gear. I do and sometimes get it right.
I am interested in what the blacksheep has to say about it as I think he works for macpac. I am in no way affiliated with macpac, maybe I can't believe that it is not as good as it used to be.
Marty.
Your are 100% correct. Doing homework is absolutly essential. As i said, i have only recently taken an interest in this stuff, as in before the gear i mentioned was purchased. It was bought as back in the day Macpac was the best go to option, but things change and it is important to check what you are getting your self into.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 8:48 pm
tastrax wrote:I saw it as a pretty poor taste first post - Imagine what he must think of Katmandu or some of the other so called outdoors stores.
I am biased however as I have quite a bit of very good Macpac gear and have had most of it for many, many years.
Agreed, I had at least 500 posts before I started bashing up on manufacturers
Macpac gear is like others in many ways, you get what you need for the purpose you need it. Personally I'd love to have a Minaret and an Olympus in my collection of tents but have no desire for a Microlite... for reasons I don't think are useful for the debate.
I have a Cascade pack which I favour over my One Planet or Mont packs because I can trust it when the conditions are rough and the terrain is technical.
I have the most awesome down jacket from Macpac that I've had for 2 years, love it dearly and have used a lot, it came with a crap stuffsack, which they replaced free of charge for a heavier brilliant stuffsack when it split at the seams(no questions asked)...
I've got other bits of great clothing which are comfortable and suited to their purpose(thermals, midlayers, windstopper), however I bought a pair of pants that weren't up to the abuse I put them through with off track walking, so-be-it, I won't get that model again. It's about being realistic with the gear you carry....
Lastly, the customer service is fantastic both in store in Hobart, on the web and when dealing with Cam directly, far better than any other manufacturer.
So 'Mr Safety' perhaps you want to trial some other gear in similar conditions if you want to make judgements???
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 9:08 pm
blacksheep wrote: Dear Mr. Safety,
it's just you.
Actually what got me thinking about this topic was other peoples comments about the your brand. Maybe on this forum i am alone in my experiences. I sure hope so.
blacksheep wrote: When you invest in a macpac product I hope you have selected a faithful, well resolved and quality partner for your adventures.
I hope so too, but that was the stem of my worries.
blacksheep wrote: These tents you mention haven't had any more than small tweeks for over a decade.( and are largley unchanged for the 15 years before that!) The materials have only recently changed to a more expensive and higher spec sil nylon (please ask Roger Caffin about his fabric tests on our products , or better still, subscribe to BPL if you want to see some impartial testing and reviews of the best tents, you'll see you are of an opposing view to one of the most informed product reviewers in Australasia)
I know the tents have changed not that much over time. My comment about changes in designs principals was more directed towards your packs and other smaller items. You cannot say they are designed purely with a utilitarian goals in mind. Yes they work well, but manufacturing costs and aesthetics look to me like they have played a part in the design process. I'm not even saying this is entirely a bad thing. What is BPL how would one subscribe to it? Why would one want to?
blacksheep wrote: The Microlite is not the lightest on the market, it is not the best in humid conditions (not all mesh) but it is outstanding in fullfilling its purpose- a lightweight shelter that can withstand the worst conditions. We use a floor that is best in class, and that contributes to a weight penalty, and a pitching system that makes sense in crappy conditions, but adds grams. This is a product that shines in the field, especially when it all turns ugly.
I see the value in these features, and am no weight weenie. I would happily cop the weigh penalty in fact. It is still however a small tent that is awkward to get into/out of and i have found difficult pitching it on mildly uneven terrain. Being non free standing also makes tent platform tricky.
blacksheep wrote: The Minaret and Olympus tents have not had major updates for 20 years, so not sure when this "going to the dogs happened". We specify these to the eyeballs for bad weather, and whether we say 10m or 10,000mm it is still the best floor material on the market. period. In regards to ventilation, as well as the vents you refer too I assume you did notice that the front door has 4 zipper sliders on it? This gives the user many options on adding additional ventilation. There is the opportunity to open additional venting on the front door and work the air flow as these tents have always done (same but 2 zips on rear entry) as well as opeing the vents by utalising the zipper sliders. To add mesh would be a mistaken design improvement, as mesh would greatly reduce the comfort this tent provides in winter conditions. The tent floor is wider than any current PU coated fabric is available in (as it has a bathtub design). Having one straight seam(which is easy to seal to a high water head) is required, and the best solution (until a factory can apply a 10,000mm pu coating on a 72in width ).
I'm no Macpac historian, but i'd say it happened gradualy. I don't know about it being the best flooring either. I found it somewhat problematic in fact. Maybe it was because the tent is a few years old. I have had no problem with the (20 year old) design of this tent. Rather that the materials used didn't seem (to me) up to scratch. I did in fact notice that there were four zippers, hence my comment 'as open as possible at both the top and the bottom'. Maybe other tents would have held up no better in these conditions. I was just sick of being wet. I also would not want to see a mesh construction, i can see the value in the insulating properties of the material used. With regards to the seam, why is it there? Does it add some functionality i don't know about? Perhaps it can be sealed. What i'd like to know is when was it first implemented, i'm guessing it wasn't on the original design.
blacksheep wrote: I would ask that you retract comments like "The designs they use are no longer about functionality but aesthetics and cost of production. The materials are no longer the best one for the job, but the cheapest they can get away with. " from your comments as I do not believe you have a good insight on how the design team here work, the testing we do and the pride we take in the products we produce. It is untrue, defamatory and offensive and bad manners.
I do not have any understanding of how your company is run. Perhaps this assertion is untrue, but this is the way i feel when looking at some of your equipment. I am sorry to offend you. I am glad to hear you take pride in the products you produce. Too often you see people simply looking for the highest profit margin with no regard for producing some thing of quality. Especially from China. My origional post will be edited.
blacksheep wrote: If you had an issue with delamination on a rainjacket, please return it. We stand behind our products and our customers and will endeavour to make any issue right.
It has been returned and sent to NZ, like i said, not because we want money back but so that you guys know about the problems with the equipment you make. Maybe it was random bad luck. Maybe it was because it was a lower end jacket. If this is the case the product should be sold with appropriate warnings as random gear destruction can be dangerous.
blacksheep wrote: I will allow other voices to give feedback, but mine is one of disappointment of the tone you chose as a debut post in this forum.
I too am happy for others to give their input. Tone is difficult to determine over internet. Perhapse you misunderstand me.
blacksheep wrote: I am an owner, director and design manager with Macpac. I am extremely proud of what we do here, and have zero interest in changing that.
Campbell Junor
I'm not saying you should change anything and i'm glad you have integrity. It's your company, you can start selling paper ponchos for all i care. What will change is where people buy their equipment.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 9:15 pm
Dale wrote:Well if Macpac have gone to the dogs then a lot of people are being fooled ! On a recent walk in the Blue Mountains I passed around 30 hikers over the two days, and being the gear tragic I am was noting their brand of backpacks and other items I could see. At least half of the gear was Macpac and then a smattering of Kathmandu, et.al. The age of the Macpac gear spanned some new stuff to a lot of old packs; they look like they'd seen a lot of wear and tear and still in service.
This is purely anecdotal and doesn't address whether the gear is in decline or not, but an interesting 'sample' nonetheless.
FWIW I use a reasonable amount of Macpac clothing and am very happy, not had an issue. The only piece of Macpac gear failure I've had are a pair of hiking poles I picked up for I think about $50 / pair and they lasted a year of high usage. So for $50 I still considered this money well spent.
My evidance too is purely anecdotal and i have not compared other companies tents. Just because people buy something does not mean it is the best either though. Perhapse the Blue Mountains are not as soggy as SW tas in winter.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 9:21 pm
MrSafety wrote:
Sad but true, in this day and age of consumerism there are only a select few companies that make gear that is made to last. With TV's at least by the time they are broken the technolergy is obselete. This is less true with tents.
By increasing air flow you would also lower temperature inside the tent witch would lower condensation.
My comment was a general comment about gear and as I don't own much Macpac gear it wasn't directed at them. I should also add that most of the gear I used in my early walking days was in Scotland which is a very different environment to Tasmania, as much as folk like to compare the two, this does make it harder to compare products over time.
I have to agree with Stepbystep, Cam has been fantastic with anyone who has questions or problems with gear when asked in a fair way. I honestly think he wants to stay at the top end of the market and his customer service is a *&%$#! good indicator of that.
As far as the tent goes many of my friends rate it as the best around. And you are probably picking the wrong person to pick an argument about condensation with me as I spent several hours today studying climatology. The only way that a tent will be condensation free in certain conditions with 2 people in it is with an extractor fan, well either that or hold your breath while you sleep. To remove moisture you need air flow and if outside outside it is at 100% humidity there is no chance the air will be able to accommodate anymore moisture.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 9:22 pm
casey79 wrote:Haha this is one of the best trolls I've seen ever on the site.
If your going to sign up just to write a illogical long winded rant your life must be pretty tragic.
Personally I feel the admins should delete this thread as well as your username.
Goodbye mcjerk
Please outline any statments that do not follow logic.
This topic passed admin filtration. If they had a problem with it then they would have deleted it before it was posted.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 9:32 pm
doogs wrote:MrSafety wrote:
Sad but true, in this day and age of consumerism there are only a select few companies that make gear that is made to last. With TV's at least by the time they are broken the technolergy is obselete. This is less true with tents.
By increasing air flow you would also lower temperature inside the tent witch would lower condensation.
My comment was a general comment about gear and as I don't own much Macpac gear it wasn't directed at them. I should also add that most of the gear I used in my early walking days was in Scotland which is a very different environment to Tasmania, as much as folk like to compare the two, this does make it harder to compare products over time.
I have to agree with Stepbystep, Cam has been fantastic with anyone who has questions or problems with gear when asked in a fair way. I honestly think he wants to stay at the top end of the market and his customer service is a *&%$#! good indicator of that.
As far as the tent goes many of my friends rate it as the best around. And you are probably picking the wrong person to pick an argument about condensation with me as I spent several hours today studying climatology. The only way that a tent will be condensation free in certain conditions with 2 people in it is with an extractor fan, well either that or hold your breath while you sleep. To remove moisture you need air flow and if outside outside it is at 100% humidity there is no chance the air will be able to accommodate anymore moisture.
My reply to your comment was also just in general. I'm glad they have great customer service. I am fully happy to accept that i am out right wrong and that Macpac is at their top of their game as ever. It is just not something i personally belive at this time. Or rather, Macpac produce equipment that is ideal to a subset of bushwalkers of witch i do not fall in.
As to the climatology, i have no degrees in anything. But how does an extractor fan function any diffrently to air flowing through a tent due to natural wind? Surely if you held your breath all night you'd still perspire? or is this diffrent? This is an honest question.
Re: Disagree.
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 9:46 pm
mattmacman wrote:I don't think this is at all a fair evaluation of macpac. There gear is of a good quality in my experience and does DEFINITELY not deserve to be compared to the likes of Kathmandu.
And please tell me how eVent is cheap?
I was not comparing, i was saying they literally sell the same products.
http://www.macpac.com.au/shop/en_au/gea ... k-set.html
http://www.kathmandu.com.au/Camping/Cam ... dised.html
They are affiliated in some way, no?
eVent is not cheap. Neither are Bugatti Veyrons, doesn't stop VW selling Škodas.
For the reccord the rain coat that that disintergrated was not eVent.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 9:47 pm
generally I wear clothes and am in a sleeping bag at night in my tent which tends to absorb most of my bodily moisture. A vast majority of condensation comes from breathing in my tent, if you do things differently that's your prerogative 
Re: Disagree.
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 9:56 pm
MrSafety wrote:mattmacman wrote:I don't think this is at all a fair evaluation of macpac. There gear is of a good quality in my experience and does DEFINITELY not deserve to be compared to the likes of Kathmandu.
And please tell me how eVent is cheap?
I was not comparing, i was saying they literally sell the same products.
http://www.macpac.com.au/shop/en_au/gea ... k-set.html
http://www.kathmandu.com.au/Camping/Cam ... dised.html
They are affiliated in some way, no?
eVent is not cheap. Neither are Bugatti Veyrons, doesn't stop VW selling Škodas.
For the reccord the rain coat that that disintergrated was not eVent.
You are correct in the example provided that the pots look like the same product. However, on sale, cheap pots are cheaper at Macpac.
Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 10:05 pm
I've found Macpac, good quality.
Over the years two issues I've had with Macpac gear.
One was the Prophet Event rain pants. Few days after purchase, went on a hike and got soaked. The rain just went straight through, it was not sweat, the weather was cool at the time. I had to retreat the DWR Finnish, the pants have performed fine ever since.
The other is a pair of the carbon hiking poles, there impossible to adjust, I turn and turn, they will not lock in. I don't use hiking poles anymore.
Apart from the above, I've found the quality of the Macpac products of very high standard. I've always found the staff very friendly and knowledgable. There down jackets are great.
Over the years two issues I've had with Macpac gear.
One was the Prophet Event rain pants. Few days after purchase, went on a hike and got soaked. The rain just went straight through, it was not sweat, the weather was cool at the time. I had to retreat the DWR Finnish, the pants have performed fine ever since.
The other is a pair of the carbon hiking poles, there impossible to adjust, I turn and turn, they will not lock in. I don't use hiking poles anymore.
Apart from the above, I've found the quality of the Macpac products of very high standard. I've always found the staff very friendly and knowledgable. There down jackets are great.
Last edited by ULWalkingPhil on Mon 11 Jun, 2012 10:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 10:06 pm
MrSafety wrote:Please outline any statments that do not follow logic.
1.
MrSafety wrote:I'll start by saying that only recently have i been that interested in bushwalking gear. Although i've been going on trips and walks for about 12+ years i've always used other peoples gear and had other people worry about it.
2.
MrSafety wrote:To be precise, we own the following. One old school Olympus, two Olympus tents, one Minaret, one Microlite, one Bivibag, one of the older sleeping bags, two packs, one Copland jacket, a down jacket, a bunch of their fleeces and some thermals. There may even be more i am forgetting. I have personally used all of this gear bar one of the backpacks and the rain coat.
I guess it depends on the definition of recent. There also seems to be some confusion between 'I' and 'we' so it's not clear exactly for whom you are speaking.
A better entry into a forum would be an introduction rather than a rant, but your choice. First impressions stick.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Mon 11 Jun, 2012 11:06 pm
My very general and opinion is that Macpac have diversified their product range. They have more products than the did 10 years ago. They designing and selling gear that is catered for a wider range of the market. If you are are a user that is a dedicated Bush walker that needs tough gear for extreme conditions then you probably aren't interested in much of the newer models of gear and this may skew your opinion of the brand as a whole.
Looking at it from another perspective, much of the old gear still does exist, or something very similar. Yes it can be a tadd difficult to find as they make other gear too. But overall it isn't a failing of the brand that they have new product lines. As long as the new products performs the intended tasks and are priced appropriately then they are still a reputable brand.
The comment about customer service is a tricky issue. Firstly, Macpac haven't had their own stores until recently, so there is no comparative point in history which it could be said that they are getting worse at. I too can say that I have had appalling service in a Macpac store,(I was ignored).I left the store and purchased else where, but it's hard to actually state that this is the fault of Macpac as a whole. It is more the fault of just a one or couple junior employees. For the record, I've had worse service in other stores.
The original post that started this thread was confusing as it would seem the author does actually own quite a lot of Macpac gear, but the author states they don't.
Looking at it from another perspective, much of the old gear still does exist, or something very similar. Yes it can be a tadd difficult to find as they make other gear too. But overall it isn't a failing of the brand that they have new product lines. As long as the new products performs the intended tasks and are priced appropriately then they are still a reputable brand.
The comment about customer service is a tricky issue. Firstly, Macpac haven't had their own stores until recently, so there is no comparative point in history which it could be said that they are getting worse at. I too can say that I have had appalling service in a Macpac store,(I was ignored).I left the store and purchased else where, but it's hard to actually state that this is the fault of Macpac as a whole. It is more the fault of just a one or couple junior employees. For the record, I've had worse service in other stores.
The original post that started this thread was confusing as it would seem the author does actually own quite a lot of Macpac gear, but the author states they don't.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Tue 12 Jun, 2012 7:47 am
customer service always varies in shops. it's a poorly paid job, the knowledge and professionalism of people in those jobs varies greatly. you can get a highly knowledgeable person, who's a student or someone doing their OE, or someone who doesnt make the effort to understand what the products they are selling are or doesnt make the effort to interact with customers.
my brother in law went to compalin about boots he bought (not at macpac) the staff couldnt fob him off and get away from him fast enough ....
my brother in law went to compalin about boots he bought (not at macpac) the staff couldnt fob him off and get away from him fast enough ....
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Tue 12 Jun, 2012 8:14 am
Mr Safety , which store did you visit that gave you this impression please?
Although they have a great store in town where i live, the people who work there don't seem to be people who like the outdoors, rather talented sales people. But maybe that is just me being elitist.
Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Tue 12 Jun, 2012 9:07 am
As they say success has many fathers and failure none. Surely people can post their experience with gear and not be so questioned in their approach. We pay a lot of money for gear so it is reasonable to think it should perform.
This thread covers many topics from condensation in tents through to traditional versus lighter weight gear. As well as actual verses perceived changes in brands directions. This is personal opinion largely and experience.
On the long weekend I was up at Olympus and within our group it is interesting to see the brand and gear choices and how the various items performed. Some people are naturally harder on gear than others and also something like pack weight governs if a pack is carried or hauled. Pack hauling is murder on packs. So a heavy pack needs to be more solid thus heavier again to survive.
As long as people are honest in their convictions and reporting of their experiences that is all I ask. I may disagree or agree based on my experiences, and yes bias.
As for gear failures in any brand, frankly a warranty claim has no great meaning when three days in something fails due to materials or design fault. If abseiling warranty is the last thing on your mind. I would expect people not to be so considered in their reporting after been unnecessary cold, wet or dumped to the ground.
As for pay for information sites, I shy away from them. In computing one product got rave reviews but the commercial reviewer failed to mention that the first six samples were sent back as broken. Strangely this information was not published with the review. To me it is pretty important finding. In the end I found I only trusted the writer of Chaos Manor in Byte as he told it as he found it from opening the packet to ultimate success or failure. Some great gear has a hell of a learning path to get it to work. Most people when writing reviews for money tend to be overly considered in their language, IMHO. That is why I love Top Gear.
Mr Safety post as you find it and if mistaken then correct the error of fact. You will have detractors but they will always exist. In fact in critiquing your style some have used "stronger" words than yours.
Cheers
This thread covers many topics from condensation in tents through to traditional versus lighter weight gear. As well as actual verses perceived changes in brands directions. This is personal opinion largely and experience.
On the long weekend I was up at Olympus and within our group it is interesting to see the brand and gear choices and how the various items performed. Some people are naturally harder on gear than others and also something like pack weight governs if a pack is carried or hauled. Pack hauling is murder on packs. So a heavy pack needs to be more solid thus heavier again to survive.
As long as people are honest in their convictions and reporting of their experiences that is all I ask. I may disagree or agree based on my experiences, and yes bias.
As for gear failures in any brand, frankly a warranty claim has no great meaning when three days in something fails due to materials or design fault. If abseiling warranty is the last thing on your mind. I would expect people not to be so considered in their reporting after been unnecessary cold, wet or dumped to the ground.
As for pay for information sites, I shy away from them. In computing one product got rave reviews but the commercial reviewer failed to mention that the first six samples were sent back as broken. Strangely this information was not published with the review. To me it is pretty important finding. In the end I found I only trusted the writer of Chaos Manor in Byte as he told it as he found it from opening the packet to ultimate success or failure. Some great gear has a hell of a learning path to get it to work. Most people when writing reviews for money tend to be overly considered in their language, IMHO. That is why I love Top Gear.
Mr Safety post as you find it and if mistaken then correct the error of fact. You will have detractors but they will always exist. In fact in critiquing your style some have used "stronger" words than yours.
Cheers
Last edited by Ent on Tue 12 Jun, 2012 12:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Tue 12 Jun, 2012 9:38 am
so how did a centimetre of water end up in an olympus if the floor is supposed to be so water tight?
my olympus was bought in the late eighties.. i think the floor has a PVC membrane, has a bucket floor, but i've never used it in wet conditions . never had major problems with condensation. have had ice form inside though in calm conditions... when i had it closed up for the night.
my olympus was bought in the late eighties.. i think the floor has a PVC membrane, has a bucket floor, but i've never used it in wet conditions . never had major problems with condensation. have had ice form inside though in calm conditions... when i had it closed up for the night.
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Tue 12 Jun, 2012 10:01 am
Just a general note on tent floors, all of my tents with polyurethane coated floors leak, all of them even when brand new.
Don't have any tents yet with silnylon as a floor.
A lot of that is actually water vapour entering through the coating. Even though it weighs a heck of a lot more I think that Vango and Fairydown were right and correct in using heavy weight PVC for floors, PVC being not only waterproof but is also a vapour barrier
Don't have any tents yet with silnylon as a floor.
A lot of that is actually water vapour entering through the coating. Even though it weighs a heck of a lot more I think that Vango and Fairydown were right and correct in using heavy weight PVC for floors, PVC being not only waterproof but is also a vapour barrier
Re: Is it just me, or has Macpac gone to the dogs?
Tue 12 Jun, 2012 11:22 am
To be honest, I haven't purchased a single key bit of gear from Macpac (tent/pack/bag) since they shifted manufacturing from New Zealand in 2001. I buy thermals, sox, odd bits of gear... probably $300 worth a year on average, but no big-ticket items.
The stuff I own (and still occasionally use) from those days was absolutely first-rate. I've posted elsewhere here on the Olympus that won't die... and my two Cascade packs will probably outlive me, and I plan to do a lot of living yet.
Personally (and I imagine this is just me) I'd probably be more likely to buy Macpac if they still manufactured in NZ, and would happily pay the premium (ie, full price with no expectation of 40%-off sales that seem to be very common with Macpac now).
But I know that's no way to run a business, unless you're confident of being able to sell globally as a niche brand. So I understand them going offshore to manufacture. But I simply don't believe that outsourcing manufacturing to asia produces as good a quality finished-product as doing it at home, using your own staff. I get that this is almost impossible these days, but I still don't think it's as good.
And thanks to the internet, brands like WM and Hilleberg are as easily available to Australian bushwalkers as Macpac. So if we want to choose something that's manufactured in country-of-origin (I know Hilleberg is made in Lithuania now, but IIRC it's still in their own factory and not outsourced) we can do it easily.
I'd happily pay $800 for an Olympus made in NZ by Macpac employees. You could probably convince me to pay a grand, especially if I knew it was going to last as long as my current late-80's Olympus. But I wouldn't pay $800 for an Olympus made in Vietnam, in a factory where they're making Macpac stuff in the morning and some other brand in the afternoon. Why, when the likes of Hilleberg can sell me a similar tent made by their own employees for less than that?
Has the quality gone down? To be honest I don't know. But shifting offshore for manufacturing has caused the perceived quality to drop, in my eyes at least.
Having said that, I reckon their gear is still very good quality and when it's on sale, very good value. But where they were pre-1991 was beyond very good... and that standard would be pretty hard to live up to.
The stuff I own (and still occasionally use) from those days was absolutely first-rate. I've posted elsewhere here on the Olympus that won't die... and my two Cascade packs will probably outlive me, and I plan to do a lot of living yet.
Personally (and I imagine this is just me) I'd probably be more likely to buy Macpac if they still manufactured in NZ, and would happily pay the premium (ie, full price with no expectation of 40%-off sales that seem to be very common with Macpac now).
But I know that's no way to run a business, unless you're confident of being able to sell globally as a niche brand. So I understand them going offshore to manufacture. But I simply don't believe that outsourcing manufacturing to asia produces as good a quality finished-product as doing it at home, using your own staff. I get that this is almost impossible these days, but I still don't think it's as good.
And thanks to the internet, brands like WM and Hilleberg are as easily available to Australian bushwalkers as Macpac. So if we want to choose something that's manufactured in country-of-origin (I know Hilleberg is made in Lithuania now, but IIRC it's still in their own factory and not outsourced) we can do it easily.
I'd happily pay $800 for an Olympus made in NZ by Macpac employees. You could probably convince me to pay a grand, especially if I knew it was going to last as long as my current late-80's Olympus. But I wouldn't pay $800 for an Olympus made in Vietnam, in a factory where they're making Macpac stuff in the morning and some other brand in the afternoon. Why, when the likes of Hilleberg can sell me a similar tent made by their own employees for less than that?
Has the quality gone down? To be honest I don't know. But shifting offshore for manufacturing has caused the perceived quality to drop, in my eyes at least.
Having said that, I reckon their gear is still very good quality and when it's on sale, very good value. But where they were pre-1991 was beyond very good... and that standard would be pretty hard to live up to.
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