Is Wilderness a Myth?

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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby walkinTas » Mon 19 Nov, 2012 6:11 am

That is a great article that highlights some of the problems, but also points out, it is not all doom and gloom. There are checks and balances in science that allow a lot of the chaff to eventually be sorted from the wheat. The article also helps explain why the casual lay reader needs to be very careful and read widely before jumping at too many conclusions, particularly in areas where there isn't widespread agreement among the scientists.

There is Google "Scholar", hidden away down in the "even more" of Google, and there are a number of good research databases, online stores and online journals, and there is the plethora of publications. Still I think it is important, for the sake of science, that scientist do more to make their work available and intelligible for the general public. I think a lot of people are genuinely interested.

In the "information age" where we have more immediate access to more information than ever before, it is also true that we have more access to more misinformation that ever was the case before. The Internet is awash with dribble.

Nature 489, 7 (06 September 2012), doi:10.1038/489007a wrote:In a culture of publish or perish, the continuing growth in the number of scientific journals is hardly a surprise. But does this proliferation of papers reflect better science, or merely dilution? When a third of all papers are never cited, it is reasonable to question why so many are published. If the answer is simply as a form of accepted currency to indicate productivity, then our evaluative systems must become less reliant on publication quanta.

Before we complain legitimately about grant success rates and funding pressures, we must ensure that our own house is in order. The act of publishing takes significant effort, yet we still publish low-impact studies as the required unit of research. We must learn to stop publishing everything and find other ways to document and recognize our studies, such as searchable publication of theses, meeting proceedings and posters.

We can only hope...
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Pteropus » Mon 19 Nov, 2012 9:01 am

walkinTas wrote:@maddog - I'd like to thank you for posting this topic. It has lead me to some very interesting reading.

Yeah, I second this. I have sourced a copy of the book from a mate. Now I just have to make some time to read it. With my critical eye :mrgreen: :lol:
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Pteropus » Mon 19 Nov, 2012 9:22 am

walkinTas wrote:Still I think it is important, for the sake of science, that scientist do more to make their work available and intelligible for the general public. I think a lot of people are genuinely interested.

One of the problems here is that it is not the scientists but the publishers of the journals who control access. The journals take the submissions, then send the manuscripts for review to other academics who do the review on their own time and for free, then the journal publishes and charges big money for people to access it. Unless you are in an academic or other research institution, access can be difficult. Publishers like Elsevier make huge profits by publishing for researchers. Many people, including most scientists, feel that the research should be more widely available. For example, this article demonstrates how limiting the access is, even for research institutions in areas where there is not so much funding, like Africa. This is a major sore point in the scientific community, and there is now a move to open access, such as PLOS one, where the research is published at the expense of the researcher. Many people eye this style of publishing with some suspicion, thinking that scientists will be able to purchase their spot in a journal and publish anything they like, but it is basically the same peer review process, just the public has access to literature of the same quality at the researchers expense, not their own. So it is likely that an increasing amount of research will be made more publically available in the future.
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby maddog » Mon 19 Nov, 2012 9:52 am

Access to scientific research is a very big issue. The British appear to be leading the way on this - publicly funded research will be free online by 2014.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/ ... c-research

The reintroduction of widespread academic tenure, and thereby independence is also a necessary reform. Providing academics and institutions the freedom to explore unpopular ideas would be likely to increase the quality of research, while publish or perish poses a moral hazard.

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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Pteropus » Mon 19 Nov, 2012 10:06 am

maddog wrote:Access to scientific research is a very big issue. The British appear to be leading the way on this - publicly funded research will be free online by 2014.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/ ... c-research

The reintroduction of widespread academic tenure, and thereby independence is also a necessary reform. Providing academics and institutions the freedom to explore unpopular ideas would be likely to increase the quality of research, while publish or perish poses a moral hazard.

Cheers

Looks like we agree on something maddog :mrgreen:

This is a timely interview: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-19/f ... al/4379154
One of the major problems with conservation management though, is that most biodiversity is not in protected areas but is on private land. One of the biggest challenges for conservation is convincing private land owners to participate in conservation at the same time as trying to make use their land in an optimal way.
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby maddog » Mon 19 Nov, 2012 10:12 am

I will have to wait for the of the Quarterly Essay to become available. But he sounds quite supportive of active management :D

The issue of private land is complicated (eg the Peter Spencer case).

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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Pteropus » Mon 19 Nov, 2012 4:22 pm

maddog wrote: But he sounds quite supportive of active management :D

Finding the most appropriate level of management for a desired outcome in a particular region is the problem. One of the reasons why Flannery emphasises the Kimberly is because it is one of the most ecologically intact landscapes left in Australia. By ecologically intact, I mean there have been few or no species lost from the area. Perhaps it is the closest thing to ‘wilderness’, or at least a pre-European landscape, we have? But it is also an area that is subject to something like 700 mining exploration leases, plus the north-west shelf gas hub. The Kimberly is potentially going to get hammered in the near future and the fear is that if appropriate management policy is not put into place now, there are likely to be extinctions from that region that compare with other areas of Australia.

More from Flannery here. Loss of species in protected areas is not simply park management problem though, and Flannery fails to mention that many species, especially animals, are lost simply because the landscape connectivity in the regions surrounding parks has been lost. Landscapes are fragmented and animals are killed on roads or by domestic dogs and cats once they leave the boundaries of the park (and in the parks too), and other animals cannot reach the park to repopulate it. Landscape connectivity is directly related to habitat loss, my favourite horse to flog :mrgreen:

Much of Australia’s landscapes have been modified so much since European settlement and now managing it to maintain species is increasingly complicated. One of the questions maddog asked in the original post was “what are the implications for land management and regulation?” and this was related to inappropriate management of regions designated wilderness. To relate this back to Gammage and some of the original thoughts on this thread, I think trying to manage the landscape to what was here in pre-European times is difficult, and even if we had all the answers, it may not actually be optimal in the current context. Anecdotal descriptions of the landscape are not enough to tell us about its functionality and there is still a lot to learn.

I couldn’t leave this thread alone... :?
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby maddog » Tue 20 Nov, 2012 2:29 pm

It looks like Premier Newman has been inspired by Flannery (or Gammage):

Campbell Newman said indigenous Australians had much better land management practices that most people realised and he had discussed the approach with Australia's climate change commissioner Tim Flannery on Tuesday.

"I have a view that the landscape needs to be better managed and we have to have a really good look at what the traditional practices were of Aboriginal peoples," he told reporters in Brisbane on Tuesday.

"The landscape, arguably, that white settlers first encountered in 1788 was a managed landscape.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaki ... 6520268368

In his essay 'After the Future - Australia's New Extinction Crisis', on the species 'extinction crisis' Flannery states:

...most people are aware are unaware that it is occurring, while those who do know of it commonly believe that our national parks and reserves are safe places for threatened species. In fact the second extinction wave is now in full swing, and it's emptying our national parks and wildlife reserves as ruthlessly as other landscapes. This is disturbing: national parks exist explicitly to conserve biodiversity...Paradoxically, biodiversity is sometimes flourishing more vibrantly on private land than in national parks...

...the problem stems from the delusion that the simple act of proclaming a national park or nature reserve will result in the protection of biodiversity. Parks must be proclaimed and effectively managed if biodiversity is to be protected.


On landscape connectivity (in the context of Cape York) , Flannery:

it sounded like a great idea - in theory. But the fact was that many on the national parks in...[the] region were infested with feral pigs, which would use any corridors that were created to spread and thereby inflict even more damage on the environment.

Flannery's views are very similar to those of Gammage on the use of fire and the role of the Aboriginal people in shaping the landscape. He says:

Australians often imagine that...they alone are responsible for the extinction of native species. But in fact what the Aboriginal people were prevented from doing by the Europeans was equally important.

Forty thousand years is a very long time. Longer than humans have been in Western Europe; three times longer than the entire human history of the Americas. Long enough for a human culture to become the keystone in the environment of the continent. The Aborigines acted as a keystone in Australia by carefully burning the vegetation...and by carefully regulating the abundance of the remaining species through hunting. Take the keystone out of the arch, and the structure collapses. And so, when the European settlers began to disrupt Aboriginal land management, they removed the keystone that lay at the heart of Australia's ecosystems. Environmental collapses can occur on the timescale of decades or centuries, and the consequences of this particular keystone removal are still being played out today.


Unfortunately, Flannery carries baggage from other issues:

Flannery's climate predictions. :lol:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/it- ... e2578aedfa

Flannery the futurist. :shock:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... iefs-video

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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Pteropus » Thu 29 Nov, 2012 2:39 pm

An interesting article by Flannery in the Conversation on the management of biodiversity in Kakadu and the Kimberly that is related to previous discussion: http://theconversation.edu.au/the-futur ... arks-11027
I am curious at what he thinks an appropriate fire regime for those landscapes is though, especially since, he also points out that much of those areas have been invaded by fire-prone exotic grasses. Any indigenous fire management, if it occurred, would not have had to take the invasive grass into account. So work would have to be done to find an appropriate management strategy, which may or may not include fire.

Plant and fire ecologist David Bowman has a bit of a rebuttal to Flannery’s article, mainly to push his ‘ introduce large herbivores, including elephants, to control exotic plants' argument: http://theconversation.edu.au/biodivers ... arks-11022

Rather controversial stuff. Either way, it demonstrates how complex the management issues are and it seems that currently, there are more theoretical and bandaid solutions than practical long-term ones.
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Hallu » Thu 29 Nov, 2012 3:39 pm

Regarding scientific articles, being a physicist myself, there is kind of a loophole. Although people aren't allowed to access most journals, authors, when they have a personal webpage, usually post their articles there for free. It's tolerated by journals, so much that when you publish a thesis (which are public, there's usually a search engine on most universities' websites), often you'll find at the end the articles (in the form they were published) the author wrote during his PhD.

So for people interested in those kinds of articles, I'd suggest you find the author first, then seek his personal webpage, university, thesis etc...

Regarding the wilderness question, well since Europeans always regarded Aboriginals as animals I guess it never mattered for them that they managed the land or not regarding the appellation of "wilderness" since they didn't see them as humans anyway... But I agree that a wilderness area should be untouched by any man, or at least looks and feels untouched, like Alaska, Siberia, tropical rainforests (the few ones still standing...) etc... To me Tasmanian wilderness is really a true wilderness, the whole West area was uninhabited by aborigines except for the coast (see map below), so everything preserved in the Tarkine, the forests and river of the South-West and Franklin-Gordon is true wilderness.

Image
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby stepbystep » Thu 29 Nov, 2012 8:15 pm

That map is ridiculous Hallu there are many known sites in that 'uninhabited region IF not settlement sites.

Yet another European assumption? :|
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Hallu » Thu 29 Nov, 2012 8:42 pm

Well then could you please name them, locate them, and/or modify the wrong wikipedia page ?
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby stepbystep » Thu 29 Nov, 2012 8:56 pm

Hallu wrote:Well then could you please name them(NO), locate them(NO), and/or modify the wrong wikipedia page ?(NO)


The mistakes of the past aren't going to be made by me.
Enjoy wikipedia, but don't believe it. Why publish? Wouldn't be wilderness if every interested party tried to get there, would it..?? Oh wait..!!
The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders ~ Edward Abbey
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Hallu » Thu 29 Nov, 2012 9:02 pm

I'm actually asking because I'm interested in the matter. I don't understand why you're claiming you know aboriginal evidence in the area but won't back it up. I also don't see how correcting historical inaccuracies (at least according to your claim) would lure a horde of tourists there... History (especially Tasmanian aboriginal history) should be told, not hold back...
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby doogs » Thu 29 Nov, 2012 9:43 pm

Um.. Humans are animals and I find it both arrogant and ridiculous to put ourselves outside of nature. What are we? Robots? We are animals that live within the biosphere therefore a wilderness area can coexist with homosexual sapiens. Period.
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Hallu » Thu 29 Nov, 2012 10:13 pm

Well "wilderness" is a word, defined by humans, and the definition of the word is "Wilderness or wildland is a natural environment on Earth that has not been significantly modified by human activity.". From your logic a city is a wilderness area, which kinda defies the purpose of inventing that word in the first place lol.
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby doogs » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 6:14 am

Hallu wrote:Well "wilderness" is a word, defined by humans, and the definition of the word is "Wilderness or wildland is a natural environment on Earth that has not been significantly modified by human activity.". From your logic a city is a wilderness area, which kinda defies the purpose of inventing that word in the first place lol.

No that's not my logic at all. If you go to the first page of this discussion you will see the definition of wilderness that is my understanding of the world.
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby wayno » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 6:20 am

Hallu, this is not a scientific site, no one has to back up anything they say on here, you can take or leave someones opinions.
we dont have to present proven scientific information to qualify anything we say here. a lot of us dont have the time to go into the detail you're after....
generally people state teh facts as they see them but theres no guarnatee they are totally right or have to elabortate on it to prove that, so accept it.

for a scientist you're talking in generalities since you say "europeans regarded aboriginals as animals" and i have to assuem you're talking about animals as in not really regarding them as equal to humans and having some inferiority...
some europeans did but it would be a generalisation to just say "europeans"

the wilderness argument is a black hole, because people arent agreeing here on what wilderness is and they never will. its different things to different people. its a concept some people want to be 100% sure theya re going somewhere where people have never lived permanently and its a hard question to answer... if theres no written history from a civilisation and not much archaeological study in an area how can you ever know the truth...

in NZ you'd have to speculate whre maoris went and didnt go, theres a reasonable idea based on stories handed down on where they travelled and settled but we'll never know exactly which of the complicated labyrinth of valleys and ridges they set foot on or set up villages and i'd imagine it would be similar with teh aborigines...

if i'm somewhere and i cant see anysign of human influence then as far as i'm concerned i'll call it a wilderness i'm not interested in arguing with a pedantic scientist about whether it qualifies. i bush walk to get away from that sort of thing, if it loks nd fels like wilderness then its my wilderness... if you want to get hard scientific facts before you call it wilderness than so be it but i'm not intersted in a precise scientific definition. i'll give wilderness my interpretation...
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Pteropus » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 10:19 am

I think people are missing the context of maddog’s original post when he asked “Is wilderness a myth?” The crux of discussion in the thread questions the modern concept of wilderness and consequently, the management of so-called wilderness areas, in light of various anecdotal sources that Aboriginal people had been actively managing the landscape for thousands of years, chiefly through the use of fire. And so regardless of how anyone viewed the Aboriginals in the past, or present for that matter, the question is more about if we should be viewing wilderness as a sacred place, left as a wild and untamed or “natural” state, or is our concept of wilderness not taking into account that aboriginals already had some degree of influence on the landscape and so it would benefit these areas if we actively managed them in the same way as indigenous people did. Further debate ensued on how much influence the Aboriginals actually had on pre-European Australian ecosystems.
In my opinion, the debate should not focus on whether Aboriginals occupied a region or not, but how much influence they had on plant and animals communities there. After all, when we go for a walk into the wilderness or whatever we want to call a large area of natural vegetation (I generally call it the bush), our presence there alone does not change the fact it is the wilderness or bush or native vegetation etc. But it is the actions we take, such as trampling vegetation, causing erosion, lighting fires etc, that impact on the state of the wilderness/bush/native veg.
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby wayno » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 10:30 am

It's arguable that when aborigines were managing areas with fire they were doing what nature was going to do eventually anyway in Aus. except they determined when and whre the fires would start
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Pteropus » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 10:38 am

wayno wrote:It's arguable that when aborigines were managing areas with fire they were doing what nature was going to do eventually anyway in Aus. except they determined when and whre the fires would start

Yes. My own arguments have been similar to that view. And that Aboriginals had less influence that has been previously thought. And that is what some of the latest science says :)
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby wayno » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 11:09 am

the aboriginals would ahve known if you dont have fires for a few years then you end up with a very dangerous combustible situation so they may have pre empted the fires for that reason.
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Pteropus » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 11:30 am

wayno wrote:the aboriginals would ahve known if you dont have fires for a few years then you end up with a very dangerous combustible situation so they may have pre empted the fires for that reason.

That is one of the general assumptions that people make, but I don’t think there is much evidence to support it. The other assumption is that they burnt to promote growth of grass, so herbivores such as kangaroos would proliferate. This sounds more plausible, but once again, is there evidence to support it? In some regions perhaps, but everywhere? I doubt it. Human population densities were very low in pre-European Australia, where people moved about and areas got burnt here and there, but I suspect the time scales between burns were much longer than what some people are led to believe. Rather than constant active management with fire, it may have been a case that fires only took hold when conditions were right. Catastrophic fires only really occur on very hot, windy and dry days, and often have little to do with fuel levels on the ground. In those conditions, if a fire gets in the canopy of a eucalypt forest, no amount of fuel reduction short of clear felling the forest, will stop the fire.
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby maddog » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 1:41 pm

Pteropus wrote:I think people are missing the context of maddog’s original post when he asked “Is wilderness a myth?” The crux of discussion in the thread questions the modern concept of wilderness and consequently, the management of so-called wilderness areas, in light of...historical evidence that Aboriginal people had been actively managing the landscape for thousands of years, chiefly through the use of fire. And so regardless of how anyone viewed the Aboriginals in the past, or present for that matter, the question is more about if we should be viewing wilderness as a sacred place, left as a wild and untamed or “natural” state, or is our concept of wilderness not taking into account that aboriginals already had some degree of influence on the landscape and so it would benefit these areas if we actively managed them in the same way as indigenous people did. Further debate ensued on how much influence the Aboriginals actually had on pre-European Australian ecosystems.


This is a good summary (with a minor alteration in bold). How are you progressing with Gammage?

wayno wrote:Hallu, this is not a scientific site, no one has to back up anything they say on here, you can take or leave someones opinions.
.

No, but it helps an argument if people are able to provide some justification - scientific, historical, anecdotal, or otherwise. I am happy to consider anyone's reasoned perspective - it improves my own.

Hallu wrote: Regarding the wilderness question, well since Europeans always regarded Aboriginals as animals I guess it never mattered for them that they managed the land or not regarding the appellation of "wilderness" since they didn't see them as humans anyway... But I agree that a wilderness area should be untouched by any man, or at least looks and feels untouched, like Alaska, Siberia, tropical rainforests (the few ones still standing...) etc... To me Tasmanian wilderness is really a true wilderness, the whole West area was uninhabited by aborigines except for the coast (see map below), so everything preserved in the Tarkine, the forests and river of the South-West and Franklin-Gordon is true wilderness.


Racial ideology is certainly not influencing either Gammage's, or traditional definitions of wilderness. The obvious consequence of the 'Hallu' definition however, is to exclude an area from being considered 'wilderness' if it had an indigenous tribe living a traditional lifestyle within it, even if it can be shown that they fill a ecological niche (eg top predator). No wilderness in Borneo or the Amazon if you can find a tribe? If you were to discover an Aboriginal artefact in a 'wilderness area', no longer is it to be considered 'wilderness'?

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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Hallu » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 2:00 pm

Well if a tribe is living somewhere, I won't call their village or territory a wilderness (which doesn't mean it wouldn't be a beautiful place to visit). On another hand, I agree that a wild area dotted by ancient artifacts can be considered a wilderness if humans aren't living there anymore.
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby wayno » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 2:29 pm

i agree its not a bad thing to provide some evidence to backup statements made in the forums, but my statement to hallu that we are under no obligation to provide evidence relates to not accepting stepbysteps statement he wouldnt provide more information or update the wiki regarding supposed wilderness areas that have evidence of past occupation by aborigines.
its up to the individual if they want to or can back up what they are saying, leave it at that if they arent willing to,
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby Hallu » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 2:39 pm

Well usually when you tell someone he's wrong, you say why, otherwise it's just pointless and disrespectful.
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby stepbystep » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 2:48 pm

Hallu wrote:Well usually when you tell someone he's wrong, you say why, otherwise it's just pointless and disrespectful.


One of the rules on this forum is not to discuss sensitive areas, does this mean sensitive areas don't exist? Or should they not be mentioned in general terms?

I would never publish details of these sites anywhere, let alone sticking them on the internet. Best not mention they exist at all I guess as that is pointless and disrespectful :roll:

Some, myself included feel some of your generalisations are disrespectful, including that map, but something tells me you'll see it differently Hallu...
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby wayno » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 3:18 pm

to what extent is it worthwhile trying to prove an area is wilderness when you are prying into sensitive areas...
science or some may demand evidence but again this is not a scientific site. its a group of people with a common interest and science comes secondary to the interest and showing respect for others. sometimes its more disrepectful to back up a statement with evidence than not.
from the land of the long white clouds...
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Re: Is Wilderness a Myth?

Postby maddog » Fri 30 Nov, 2012 3:35 pm

On the subject of whether or not we should consider indigenous peoples living a traditional lifestyle as part of an ecosystem, playing a role in 'wilderness' by filling an ecological niche, and otherwise living a lifestyle in balance with nature. Problems can arise if indigenous peoples are viewed as separate.

A good example of this is the case of tribespeople living in, or close to, wildlife reserves in Africa. Where indigenous peoples are viewed as part of an ecosystem their lifestyle is legitimate. When viewed as outside the natural system, their hunting is naturally viewed as poaching, illegitimate, and a threat to conservation. In 'Killing for Conservation - Wildlife Policy in Zimbabwe', Rosaleen Duffy illustrates the problem with the following example (pp 52-53):

The image of the poacher..was that of the poverty stricken, yet greedy, outsider robbing the host countries of their natural heritage. It drew on the Western belief that wildlife had to be protected from indigenous peoples to prevent it from being hunted to extinction...

NGOs that otherwise would not be seen to be supporting violence have turned a blind eye to the activities of a number of conservation agencies. In turn, NGOs have justified their position on the basis of preserving biodiversity...This was assisted by a simplistic definition of rangers as wildlife protectors and poachers as wildlife destroyers. One of the most controversial and politically-loaded donations...came from the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) International, which donated a helicopter for the anti-poaching effort in 1997. The helicopter was used in the shoot-to-kill policy, and it was used to shoot a poacher in the Sapi safari area. However, the helicopter quickly turned into a public relations disaster as WWF-International became embroiled in a human rights vs animal rights row. The provision of the helicopter was severely criticised...for its role and obvious support for shoot-to-kill...


You wouldn't want to be a tribes person incompatible with the ideology of 'wilderness'. Equally, wilderness is diminished without indigenous inhabitants filling their ecological niche. Localised elephant overpopulation in Africa is a example of the latter (Duffy, op sit, 131):

Culling is a highly contentious issue for conservationists, because, at its heart, culling involves the question of whether nature is able to regulate itself or whether management policies should be devised. Conservationists have been divided over whether to interfere with elephant populations through culling. The choice is often presented by NGOs as between culling and allowing elephants to die off naturally as a result of localised overpopulation...If elephants become to numerous, they can destroy their own habitats, and this results in a slow death from malnutrition and starvation. In addition, it can also force other species, such as rhino and giraffe, to move elsewhere in search of food, or they will face the same fate as the elephants.

So, the indigenous inhabitants are moved on, because they are incompatible with conservation and 'wilderness' values. Elephant plagues follow, so they require culling. But if the tribes people are left to fill the niche, their hunting controls populations, and the system remains in balance.

Where the indigenous inhabitants are removed, and the niche becomes vacant. The landscape then requires management to remain balanced. This seems a familiar story.

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