Hunting in some NSW National Parks

[maddog]

Kids can hunt on public land: NSW premier
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/br ... 6590668995

[maddog]

Shooters were caught drunk and on drugs:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/shooters-were ... 2fj3t.html

[wayno]

yup, a certain percentage of hunters i've seen just shouldnt be let near weapons...

[Tony]

Shooters were caught drunk and on drugs:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/shooters-were ... 2fj3t.html

Thanks again maddog,

The Game Council currently employs 4.5 rangers to oversee the 2.2 million hectares of State Forests spread around the state, with so few rangers over such a large area, hunters can do what they like with very little likely hood of getting caught. I am not sure how the Game Council think they are going to police the extra 2.5 million hectares of National Parks.

Tony

[maddog]

Fair point Tony. But regardless of the numbers or integrity, I suspect that the Game Council is not well placed to oversee hunting in NPs. While I’m sure they understand firearms, their grasp of the basic ecological concepts seems limited. And the trite dismissal of legitimate public concerns regarding safety and loss of amenity, as ‘extreme green’ propaganda, is of concern.

The Game Council’s knowledge of the specific geography of the areas in question is also lacking. This will make the job of finding rogue hunters spread out over large areas almost impossible, even if they had the numbers. Those with specific knowledge of an area, the park rangers, would be better placed to provide the necessary oversight. So far, the Game Council and Shooters and Fishers seem unable to gain the support of the rangers.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-06/h ... ts/4555252

http://www.ulladullatimes.com.au/story/ ... lan/?cs=12

Cheers

[maddog]

The rogues gallery:

1. On 10 March 2012 an R-licensed amateur hunter was caught on a Forestry NSW camera hunting without permission in a State forest with two unrestrained dogs. Source – NSW Forestry.

2. On 11 March 2012 an R-licensed amateur hunter was found hunting and butchering a deer illegally on private land. Source – private individual.

3. On 31 March 2012 two R-licensed amateur hunters were found in a State Forest with firearms and hunting equipment. They did not have permission to hunt. Source – Game Council.

On 11 May 2012 3 R-licensed amateur hunters were found having set up a hunting camp in a National Park and also admitted to hunting in a State Forest with firearms without permission. Source of information – Local Landowner who helped them when they were bogged.

4. On 7 July 2002 an intoxicated (mid-range PCA) R-licensed amateur hunter was pulled over by police whilst driving at night in State forest with a passenger who had a semi-automatic rifle fitted with a laser sight and a silencer. – Firearms and PCA charges were laid by Police and the hunter’s licence was cancelled. Source of information – Police

5. On 11 August 2012 an R-licensed amateur hunter was found hunting in a State Forest with three pig dogs, several knives and a quantity of cannabis. He had no permission to hunt. Source –Police.

6. On 11 August 2012 a repeat offender (previously convicted of illegal hunting in a State Forest with pig dogs) was found with 5 pig dogs, one of which was his own unregistered dog. Source –Police.

7. On 13 August 2012 an R-licensed amateur hunter and two males companions were found at a hut inside South Eden forests National Park with a firearm and ammunition. The amateur hunter told rangers that he was told by his R Licence instructor that he could hunt in National parks. He had an expired permit to hunt in the nearby Glenbog State Forest – Initial source– NPWS Rangers. A later investigation revealed witnesses who described seeing a number of heavily intoxicated young men loudly revving their vehicles’ engines, spinning the wheels and shouting at each other. One was so heavily intoxicated he “was seen to fall flat on his face without any attempt to protect himself”. They were seen drinking Woodstock bourbon and coal from cans. Large number of empty cans were littered around the site. One hunter said he had shot a deer with a spotlight in the State Forest that night (night time shooting is illegal in State Forests). The witnesses said they were offered cannabis by the hunters for helping them with their bogged cars. The witnesses said they felt intimidated by the hunters. The amateur hunter was disqualified for 12 months from having a Game Hunting licence and told next time to wear blaze orange when hunting.

8. On 15 September 2012 an R-licensed amateur hunter’s dog was tracked illegally entering into a National Park where it consumed a 1080 bait and subsequently died. Source – Game Council’s investigation after hunter self reported.

9. On 18 October 2012 three R-licensed amateur hunters entered a prohibited area of a State Forest, by removing barrier tape and ignoring signs declaring that part of the forest closed for hunting. It was closed for hunting because 14 forestry contractors we operating in it. The three hunters then set up camp in the “heart of the compartments soon to be logged by contractors” and hunted with firearms from dawn. They only stopped when they were confronted by the forestry contractors who stumbled on their camp. The hunters were given a three month suspension of their licence. Source – Forestry NSW.

Source:
http://davidshoebridge.org.au/2013/03/0 ... l-hunters/

The source material:
http://djdh9atks0nwf.cloudfront.net/wp- ... tances.pdf

Cheers

[Nuts]

So your conclusion? is that R licence hunters are more likely to engage in illegal activity? or is it that rougues will continue to engage in illegal activity regardless of whether they have an R licence? or that the real criminals don't get caught or perhaps don't bother with licences or perhaps aren't included as they would taint results?

I suspect these things have been happening (and will happen) regardless of licencing, don't you maddog?

[photohiker]

Isn't this one of the conclusions: we shouldn't be even thinking of giving the drunk the keys to the grog cabinet?

[maddog]

So your conclusion? is that R licence hunters are more likely to engage in illegal activity? or is it that rougues will continue to engage in illegal activity regardless of whether they have an R licence? or that the real criminals don't get caught or perhaps don't bother with licences or perhaps aren't included as they would taint results?

I suspect these things have been happening (and will happen) regardless of licencing, don't you maddog?

Nuts,

One might conclude a number of things from the release of the Game-Council minutes (a result of the Greens FOI request).

That the assurance of 'R' licence hunter integrity is not worth the paper it is written on. That the actual incidences of illegal hunter behaviour are likely far more numerous than those reported by the Game-Council. That as the risk of getting caught is remote, so the punishments imposed for illegal behaviour must be harsh if they are to act as sufficient deterrent. That any program allowing recreational hunting within National Parks should be carefully regulated, and strictly controlled, to ensure that opportunities for rogues to slip through the net are remote, and that the Game-Council is not up to the job. That legitimate recreational hunters are in danger of being tarred with the same brush as the rogues. That by pushing for hunting in National Parks the Game Council, and their supporters, have committed a great tactical error. And that delaying the introduction of recreational hunting in National Parks, has allowed those opposed to further scrutinise the Game-Council's proposal, and its justifications, thereby creating further pressure on the Government to abandon this foolish policy.

My own conclusion is that I would not like to meet any of the listed rogues when bushwalking with my young daughters. Would you?

Cheers

[Nuts]

No I wouldn't. I'd suppose it would be more likely to happen with a licence system (where do you see yourself bushwalking? )
That doesn't excuse being as disingenuous with those minutes as mr shoobridge. Is he hoping that nobody actually reads the reports or thinks what conclusion really could be made from 'facts'.

[jackhinde]

My own conclusion is that I would not like to meet any of the listed rogues when bushwalking with my young daughters. Would you?

enthusiasm for blood sports, owning a fire arm, and/or poaching in the queen's or commonwealth's forest equals paedophilia? (and what of the boys? okis it ok to see blood from hunting and hold a dangerous weapon on the rich mens land? )

[maddog]

...Is he hoping that nobody actually reads the reports or thinks what conclusion really could be made from 'facts'.

Perhaps you could be more specific Nuts. Which of the misunderstood rogues in the gallery would you like to discuss?

enthusiasm for blood sports, owning a fire arm, and/or poaching in the queen's or commonwealth's forest equals paedophilia?

You drew the link Jackhinde, not me.

...and what of the boys?

The boy would not be at all bothered. Actually he is looking forward to using a rifle. He has reminded me of this on a number of occasions.

Cheers

[forest]

enthusiasm for blood sports, owning a fire arm, and/or poaching in the queen's or commonwealth's forest equals paedophilia? (and whatthey the boys? okis it ok to see blood from hunting and hold a dangerous weapon on the rich mens land? )

Wow this thread really has stooped to a new low. I don't think there is a need at all to draw a conclusion like that. Illegal activities, you betcha and they should have the full weight of the law thrown at them. As for the rest of what you have written. Pure dribble and no need for it at all. Have some restraint sir please.

[colinm]

Deliverance was a documentary.

[maddog]

I am presuming that with the 'rich man's land' reference, Jackhinde was referring to the Mr Hazell type of situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny,_the ... _the_World

On the topic of poaching, just how did Ronald Dahl learn to catch pheasants?

Cheers

[jackhinde]

enthusiasm for blood sports, owning a fire arm, and/or poaching in the queen's or commonwealth's forest equals paedophilia? (and whatthey the boys? okis it ok to see blood from hunting and hold a dangerous weapon on the rich mens land? )

Wow this thread really has stooped to a new low. I don't think there is a need at all to draw a conclusion like that. Illegal activities, you betcha and they should have the full weight of the law thrown at them. As for the rest of what you have written. Pure dribble and no need for it at all. Have some restraint sir please.

what else was maddog implying with his reference to "young daughters"? the use of quoted hackneyed refrain needs clarification, not my satirical comment on this thread.

[maddog]

Jackhinde,

Nothing implied other than I have daughters, who's bushwalking and camping experiences would be sullied if we came across one or more of the brazen rogues as described above. An example of the loss of amenity as a cost, and not in any way related to the ridiculous implication that you sought to draw.

Cheers

[maddog]

Community oppositon to gun laws mounts:

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/conten ... 708087.htm

[puredingo]

I don't want to cross one of these brazen rogues either, apparently they drink bourbon and COAL!!!...I've had to comprimise my mixers out on the trail in desporate times but no way am I that tough.

[maddog]

Hunting petition handed to Parliament:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-07/n ... ection=nsw

[KANANGRABOYD]

Last September I went with my wife on a trip to Deep Pass ( near Lithgow,NSW in Wollemi NP ). On the forest road on the way back after 4 days, we came across a scene out of Iraq or Syria!. There was rubbish everywhere, food, beer cans, burbon bottles, you name it. There were atleast 100 used 12G shotgun sheels, and also about 100 .243Win and .270Win shells. The worst thing was that there was 5 huge Kangaroo's that were just "destroyed" - I mean mutilated. Looks like they got drunk, killed some roos and decided to unload a few hundred rounds into them and who know's what else.
I like firearms- I lived in both Canada and the US for many years and did lots and lots of hunting.
However.... There is absolutely no way I could ever condone or support hunting in ANY NSW NP where numerous campers, hikers frequent.
Most hunters and firearm owners are responsible and safety conscience, but it the few that will ruin and potentially hurt others.
Besides, unless you are hunting to provide for yourself and family, or a loand owner eradicating pests/vermin, there is absolutely no way you should be out hunting and killing animals.

[maddog]

The end game for the Games Council?

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/nsw/content ... 710372.htm

[maddog]

Allowing the Game Council's dual role poses too great a risk

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/editorial ... z2MscrRfFD

[maddog]

Myall Lakes MP Stephen Bromhead, describes controls that will be placed on hunting within Myall Lakes NP:

It (safety) is absolutely paramount. The protocols being put in place will ensure that there will be no shooting while people are in the park, and it will only occur in approved culling times. Hunters will need to be fully licensed by the Game Council and they will then require approval from national parks staff who will give them a time, date and place where hunting can occur.

I am not sure of the proposed zoning of this NP, but if such controls are widespread it may take much of the heat out of the issue. By replicating a model similar to that developed in SA, rather than the free-for-all favoured by the Shooters and Fisher's Game-Council, is the government responding to public pressure and moving towards a sensible compromise?

http://www.greatlakesadvocate.com.au/st ... ed/?cs=445

Cheers

[colinm]

The protocols being put in place will ensure that there will be no shooting while people are in the park, and it will only occur in approved culling times.

Cool, so if I have a shooting license, I can book an entire National Park to hold a private birthday party! Love it.

Colin.

[maddog]

Bushwalkers behaving badly

extreme greens.jpg (59.2 KiB) Viewed 14365 times

http://hornsby-advocate.whereilive.com. ... -violence/

Cheers

[colinm]

Worth mentioning that the photo was taken 2 June 2012? Just for a bit of context.

[gayet]

And

A STOUSH erupted at Wahroonga Park on Sunday when a rally against Premier Barry O’Farrell’s deal to allow hunting in national parks was crashed by Andrew Smith, a lone anti-carbon tax protester.

[wayno]

some people make a life of protesting
look at john minto rent a protestor in nz still hard at it since at least the spring book tour at the start of the eighties... only now he's just plain embarassing with his loud hailer, he was protesting at the auckland international tennis because an israei was playing...

[maddog]

The useful idiots are the main feature. Attacking a solitary heckler like a flock of scrub turkeys at a picnickers table.

Is this the kind of thing extreme greens do? And why the new laws include the offence of interfering with hunters?

s55A:
A person must not, without reasonable excuse, engage in any conduct on declared public hunting land:
(a) that interferes with the hunting of game animals on that land by another person under the authority conferred by a game hunting licence, and
(b) with the intention of interfering with that hunting.

Cheers