so... sad day for the Ford Falcon

[wayno]

it will be no more....

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/closure ... nt-5445978

[walkinTas]

Ford (and Holden) knew as early as 1998 that the market was shifting away from the large family sedan. Ford responded in Europe with the Mondeo, but marched on in Australia like Lemmings towards the cliff top seemingly unable or unwilling to change course.

[Hallu]

Except that now the Falcon and its Holden counter-part are rubbish. They are a self-parody of their old ancestors, the symbol of boganism (or cocks, as Top Gear would put it), of bling, of stupidity (at least in Australia). Yeah they can be fun to drive, but to buy ? Forget it. Aussies have absolutely no taste in cars : X5, Cayenne, the last bling bling landrovers, a huge number of awful and cheap kias and hyundais, a mass of ridiculous vauxhall/holden/opel (buy Aussie ? No those are German cars, and not the good ones...)... They're only saved by some Hilux (but it's mostly for practicality and durability) and a couple of Subarus.

[tasadam]

On the topic of Fords, check this one out if you like old but effectively new...
www.fordxwgt.com

[ILUVSWTAS]

Except that now the Falcon and its Holden counter-part are rubbish. They are a self-parody of their old ancestors, the symbol of boganism (or cocks, as Top Gear would put it), of bling, of stupidity (at least in Australia). Yeah they can be fun to drive, but to buy ? Forget it. Aussies have absolutely no taste in cars : X5, Cayenne, the last bling bling landrovers, a huge number of awful and cheap kias and hyundais, a mass of ridiculous vauxhall/holden/opel (buy Aussie ? No those are German cars, and not the good ones...)... They're only saved by some Hilux (but it's mostly for practicality and durability) and a couple of Subarus.

[Nuts]

What is your preferred ride Hallu?

[wander]

Australia as a whole is only a large city in the context of Europe, the USA, China and Japan so it is bizarre (and a huge credit to those involved that that have kept going so long) that we have a car industry at all never mind 3 factory set ups with holden ford and toyota. We need to get a grip appreciate the we are really a very very small player.

[FatCanyoner]

While I did the bushwalking thing a few years back and bought myself a Subaru, my wife quickly confiscated that "for the kids". I then reverted to my trusty old Ford Falcon. It's a 2000 model. I paid $4000 for it about six or seven years back. It's done about 300,000kms. Runs on LPG, so actually cheaper than most small cars. I treat it like crap. Bash down fire trails. Only get it services once a year (to get it through rego). She's a tough old bird. All the little things break (power windows etc) but the engines just keep on going. I think bushwalkers could do far worse than an LPG Falcon as their runabout car.

Australia as a whole is only a large city in the context of Europe, the USA, China and Japan so it is bizarre (and a huge credit to those involved that that have kept going so long) that we have a car industry at all never mind 3 factory set ups with holden ford and toyota. We need to get a grip appreciate the we are really a very very small player.

Interestingly, there is only one other OECD nation without a domestic car manufacturing industry, so there are plenty of other smaller countries that still make them. Everyone I've spoken to in the industry says that in a few years we'll be the second one on that list. Perhaps when our dollar slips back to where it should be (all the experts say we're at least 10% overvalued) we'll be able to afford to manufacture stuff again.

[wayno]

i rented a falcon around Tas.... glad i did, held the windy roads nicely instead of rolling around on corners like a lot of jap cars...

[Hallu]

The suspension is good, but don't go fast in the corners, it's front engine/rear wheel drive, it's been built for over-steering and drifting after all. I'd rather have a front wheel drive hatchback in mountain roads. French ones handle themselves very good usually (you've got to like diesel though...), Koreans are absolutely awful, recent Toyotas are ok.

As we are on the subject of cars, I've never understood something : in mainland Europe, automatic gearboxes are for old rich people, buying BMWs and Mercs. Nobody has an automatic. In English speaking countries on the other hand, that seems to be the norm, and you can choose to get your driving licence on an automatic or a manual O_o Why is that ? Lack of mountain roads ? Overall laziness ?

[Strider]

Auto's are stronger and are usually found behind bigger engines. European engines are typically small, with the exception of those BMW's and Mercs.

Apart from snow driving, I can't imagine why anyone would actually choose a front-wheel-drive vehicle. Particularly for mountain rounds where understeer = death.

[FatCanyoner]

I've never understood something : in mainland Europe, automatic gearboxes are for old rich people, buying BMWs and Mercs. Nobody has an automatic. In English speaking countries on the other hand, that seems to be the norm, and you can choose to get your driving licence on an automatic or a manual O_o Why is that ?

It's much easier to eat drive through Maccas in an auto! I know people who read the paper / eat their breakfast / do their makeup while driving to work. Much harder to do that in a manual!

[Strider]

What is your preferred ride Hallu?

Probably something crap. Like a Peugeot or a Citroen.

[Hallu]

Auto's are stronger and are usually found behind bigger engines. European engines are typically small, with the exception of those BMW's and Mercs.

Apart from snow driving, I can't imagine why anyone would actually choose a front-wheel-drive vehicle. Particularly for mountain rounds where understeer = death.

lol just about everything you just said is wrong... Auto transmissions have nothing to do with big cars or not, there's no tendency for small European engines, and just about 90% of vehicles on the market right now are front-wheel drive. Oversteer = death too you know. Front engine rear wheel drive have less grip than front engine front wheel drive, why did you think they made them ? So unless you have a Porsche with the engine at the back pressing on the wheel, or a high end rear wheel drive perfectly balanced, a regular priced front wheel drive vehicle IS better in corners (you won't find a regular priced rear wheel drive car nowadays anyway).

[Strider]

Auto transmissions have nothing to do with big cars or not

Correct. But traditionally big cars/big engines have been the most popular in Australia. Hence a greater demand for auto's.

there's no tendency for small European engines

Aside from performance cars, name ONE.

just about 90% of vehicles on the market right now are front-wheel drive.

Driven by a trend toward small cars. The only way to mount a drivetrain is transverse.

Oversteer = death too you know.

Rear-wheel drive is more predictable and easier to control once traction is lost.

Front engine rear wheel drive have less grip than front engine front wheel drive, why did you think they made them ?

See above comment.

So unless you have a Porsche with the engine at the back pressing on the wheel, or a high end rear wheel drive perfectly balanced, a regular priced front wheel drive vehicle IS better in corners (you won't find a regular priced rear wheel drive car nowadays anyway).

Sure - 1966 Bathurst was proof of this. But you'll be pushing your luck to find such a beast with a pricetag under $50k.

[Hallu]

lol so your argument towards rear wheel drive is that when things go wrong it's better ? Apart from sport and muscle cars, there's no rear wheel drive cars on the market for regular guys, so the debate is pretty useless. And European engines are the same as Japanese engines or the rubbish Korean ones. So unless you call Aussie and US muscle car or 4WD the norm, I can't see how you could argue, because there are simply no car makers left... "Apart from performance cars name one", well can you name a non-performance Aussie car with a big engine ? lol Do you know Aussie family saloons or hatchbacks with a V8 or a V10 ? Compare what's comparable. All companies make pretty much the same size of engine nowadays anyway. You find more small cars in Europe, simply because that's what you drive when you have small streets and real corners, but there's not trend to make small engines...

[wayno]

so,,,,, did anyone know that they are going to stop making Ford Falcons?

[ILUVSWTAS]

What is your preferred ride Hallu?

[doogs]

Ford (and Holden) knew as early as 1998 that the market was shifting away from the large family sedan. Ford responded in Europe with the Mondeo, but marched on in Australia like Lemmings towards the cliff top seemingly unable or unwilling to change course.

My parents had a Mondeo around 1990 in the UK! But fuel in Europe has always been more expensuve than America and Australia so they've always had the cars suited for economy.

[wayno]

i dont think the front wheel rear wheel argument is as relevant with big cars like falcons, the extra weight of the car and fatter tyres helps the car sit on the road better for cornering..,, if you drive your car enough you can get a feel for how it handles and compensate for its nuances to a certain extent

[Strider]

lol so your argument towards rear wheel drive is that when things go wrong it's better ? Apart from sport and muscle cars, there's no rear wheel drive cars on the market for regular guys, so the debate is pretty useless. And European engines are the same as Japanese engines or the rubbish Korean ones. So unless you call Aussie and US muscle car or 4WD the norm, I can't see how you could argue, because there are simply no car makers left... "Apart from performance cars name one", well can you name a non-performance Aussie car with a big engine ? lol Do you know Aussie family saloons or hatchbacks with a V8 or a V10 ? Compare what's comparable. All companies make pretty much the same size of engine nowadays anyway. You find more small cars in Europe, simply because that's what you drive when you have small streets and real corners, but there's not trend to make small engines...

Things are less likely to go wrong with rear wheel drive because you get better feedback and therefore are better able to control it. If front wheel drive performed better, performance cars would have adopted it years ago.

Can't remember the last time I saw a European V8 that wasn't in a performance car....

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

I agree with Hallu.

Strider, have you ever driven a Mitaubishi 380?

Read this review here:

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/ne ... review.htm

And I will cut and paste the important part:

The way it puts the power down, the way it transfers torque to the driving wheels, is so clean and tidy it's a wonder more people haven't tacked on to the vehicle's biggest draw card (and no, I don't have Mitsubishi shares). The 380 VRX's powertrain is surprisingly good, and for power down and tractability, the Commodore and Falcon come in second and third places respectively.

Claiming that front wheel drive is less safe in heavy, powerful cars is simply a myth propagated by those who haven't tried it. I used to say it too... And then I bought a powerful, well engineered, modern front wheel drive - and realised I couldn't have been more wrong.

It's a sad time for the Australian motor industry... And not just Ford, but all the smaller component suppliers, transport companies etc.

But dumping over 1.1 billion of tax payers money over the last few decades is not a sustainable solution. The ultimate downfall of Australian built cars was the removal of foreign car tariffs in the early 1990s. A return to a 20% foreign car tariff would revive the Australian car industry overnight, and the government would be GETTING money from foreign car sales, not GIVING away money to help sell Australian cars.

[walkinTas]

Rear-wheel drive vs front-wheel drive! V8 vs V6 engines! You are arguing over technology that belongs in the past. Even the Internal combustion engines is ancient technology. The whole car industry needs a very big shake up. Right around the globe car manufacturers only survive on massive government handouts. IMHO any car manufacturer will struggle in the future without a global market for their product. I hope we can continue to have manufactures in Australia, but I also hope there is a big rethink of the products they make and the technologies we use.

We've been conditioned by the car industry to accept certain technologies while they have regurgitated a 150 year old paradigm. Hopefully our dinosaurs will disappear from our roads sooner rather than later, and the sheer pleasure of driving them will be an enthusiast weekend hobby.

Hopefully somewhere in the not too distant future we will have urban transport that actually addresses the many problems caused by using personal cars as a means of getting from A to B.

Take a look at this video. Don't look at the car - look at the technology - and the possibilities. Its a concept of what 2030 might bring. Vehicles that don't run into each other or run off the road, vehicles that park themselves and return to you when needed, vehicles that can drive themselves while you do productive work (working in your commute time). (read more) Simple truth is we have the technology to do much better than just stick with the old paradigm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50BY1_SJy-Q

[wayno]

ive driven four different makes of front wheel drive medium size jap cars on windy hill country roads for decades . none of them could hold a candle to the falcon for road holding half the mitsi 380's benefit is its size

[Strider]

The 380 also only lasted a couple of years before being discontinued - the customers have spoken.

[wayno]

GUTTED !

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

ive driven four different makes of front wheel drive medium size jap cars on windy hill country roads for decades . none of them could hold a candle to the falcon for road holding

That doesn't mean front wheel drive cars are inherently unsafe, or less capable than rear wheel drive cars. It's like trying five random golf clubs and finding the one with the red handle hits the longest distance. Doesn't mean you need a red handle to hit a long golf ball.

The 380 also only lasted a couple of years before being discontinued - the customers have spoken.

They sure have. In exactly the same way they've spoken about heavy, big, rear wheel drive Ford cars. When they were looking at trying to save Mitsubishi in the early 2000s, the biggest thought was that Australians demanded front wheel drives weren't suitable or safe enough for Australian roads. So they made an AWD Magna (large, powerful, six cylinder) which stuck like GLUE and it sold like crap. The drivetrain was not the problem.

It's only a matter of time for Holden, recent announcements have just delayed the inevitable. The car manufacturers all demand that Australians want large, powerful, rear wheel drive cars. Australians don't buy them. Car companies close up shop. It's very, very simple. Ford made good mileage with the boom in SUVs by making the Territory here, and it delayed the inevitable. Holden have moved in the right direction by building the Cruze in Australia. But it's too little, too late - Holden Australia have lost over $100million per year for the last two years.

I'm glad we agree on Zebralight headlights, Strider - doesn't seem like we agree on much else

half the mitsi 380's benefit is its size

When it comes to maintaining grip on a slippery, windy road, basic physics suggests completely the opposite!

Rear-wheel drive vs front-wheel drive! V8 vs V6 engines! You are arguing over technology that belongs in the past. Even the Internal combustion engines is ancient technology. The whole car industry needs a very big shake up. Right around the globe car manufacturers only survive on massive government handouts. IMHO any car manufacturer will struggle in the future without a global market for their product. I hope we can continue to have manufactures in Australia, but I also hope there is a big rethink of the products they make and the technologies we use.

We've been conditioned by the car industry to accept certain technologies while they have regurgitated a 150 year old paradigm. Hopefully our dinosaurs will disappear from our roads sooner rather than later, and the sheer pleasure of driving them will be an enthusiast weekend hobby.

Hopefully somewhere in the not too distant future we will have urban transport that actually addresses the many problems caused by using personal cars as a means of getting from A to B.

Take a look at this video. Don't look at the car - look at the technology - and the possibilities. Its a concept of what 2030 might bring. Vehicles that don't run into each other or run off the road, vehicles that park themselves and return to you when needed, vehicles that can drive themselves while you do productive work (working in your commute time). (read more) Simple truth is we have the technology to do much better than just stick with the old paradigm.

You are 100% correct, WalkinTas - couldn't agree more. The argument of "Australian roads and conditions require a big, heavy, rear wheel drive car" belongs in the 1930s.

[walkinTas]

Nearly everyone who has a 'future car' concept is talking about a future version of the 'current car' concept - all be it with different fuels, or batteries, or wings or some other design feature to make it look futuristic. They all take 'car' and project it into the future.

What I like about the en-v project is they took current technology and projected that into the future and then wondered what type of urban transport could use this technology. There should be more thinking like this!

[Strider]

They sure have. In exactly the same way they've spoken about heavy, big, rear wheel drive Ford cars. When they were looking at trying to save Mitsubishi in the early 2000s, the biggest thought was that Australians demanded front wheel drives weren't suitable or safe enough for Australian roads. So they made an AWD Magna (large, powerful, six cylinder) which stuck like GLUE and it sold like crap. The drivetrain was not the problem.

It's only a matter of time for Holden, recent announcements have just delayed the inevitable. The car manufacturers all demand that Australians want large, powerful, rear wheel drive cars. Australians don't buy them. Car companies close up shop. It's very, very simple. Ford made good mileage with the boom in SUVs by making the Territory here, and it delayed the inevitable. Holden have moved in the right direction by building the Cruze in Australia. But it's too little, too late - Holden Australia have lost over $100million per year for the last two years.

I'm glad we agree on Zebralight headlights, Strider - doesn't seem like we agree on much else

No, I agree with you on this too! Bad marketing through and through.

[tastrax]

Maybe if they were making these and flogging them in Sydney they may have survived

http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster